One Problem with Religion in general: War

[attilavolciak07]

I have not posted here frequently, so I don't know how quick it will develop into a 'flame war' but I will try to get a point out anyway.

Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities

--Voltaire

Religious war is one of the 'demons' of religion in my view. Many 'Crusaders' or people fighting for their religion might misinterprete their religion's ethical rules or have non-religious views imposed on them that seem to contribute to the fiery. Religious conflicts are some of the hardest conflicts to stop, mostly because both sides believe they have God on their side and that (at the end of the day) they will win. They might believe God will 'endorse' their actions or governments might tell that to the people.
In 1209 during the seige of Beziers, a Crusader asked a Papal Legate, Arnaud Amalric, how to tell Catholics from Cathars and he was answered by the quote below

"Tuez-les tous; Dieu reconnaitra les siens. (Kill them all; for the Lord knoweth them that are His.)

The 9/11 attacks and the London bombings are a good example of religion provoking war. The terrorists do not see what they have done as bad, they believe they will got to 'heaven' after this for punishing 'unbelievers'.

Thank you for the time.
-Attila

[MaximiIian]

It depends on the religion. Some outright repudiate violence, while others use it actively as part of their beliefs. And even so, most of the religious wars have been steered by greedy men with big egos and far-reaching ambitions, with religion only used as a cover for their actions.

The thing about broad, general statements like "religion only causes war" is that it ignores examples where it doesn't, which are more often than when it does.

[attilavolciak07]

Yes, some religions pray for peace and advocate it, however when something happens to their religion, they will take up arms if it is a big crisis. This means that religion, either intentional or accidental, could lead to war and bad relations. Many countries have refrained from having diplomatic relations with other countries due to religion, take a look at the Middle East for example.

[AqD]

The 9/11 attacks and the London bombings are a good example of religion provoking war. The terrorists do not see what they have done as bad, they believe they will got to 'heaven' after this for punishing 'unbelievers'.

They punished invaders not unbelievers.

If you're in their position, what would you do? Go crying in front of the greeeeeat American and Eurpoean presidents and beg them not to mess up with your people?

They just happen to be muslims. Being a muslim has nothing to do with terrorism or fighting against invaders.
________
thai property in Pattaya

[Playfishpaste]

Um, no. The 9/11 attacks had everything to do with being muslim. They attacked in the name of Islam, that is the reason that fueled them, their religious principles were interpreted by them as us needing to be dealt with. This of course is not the general interpretation held by muslims, but these few were radicals.

[AqD]

Um, no. The 9/11 attacks had everything to do with being muslim. They attacked in the name of Islam, that is the reason that fueled them, their religious principles were interpreted by them as us needing to be dealt with. This of course is not the general interpretation held by muslims, but these few were radicals.

But it's not provoked by their religion. It's provoked by the western nations messing up politics in the middle east.

And don't forget 9/11 is just one of many similar attacks by many different groups of people, being muslim or not. Terrorism has existed for a very long time and it's just another form of war - the form you have to use when you cannot afford to fight fairly - and it cannot be judged by simple "right" or "wrong".
________
VAPOR GENIE

[attilavolciak07]

Um, no. The 9/11 attacks had everything to do with being muslim. They attacked in the name of Islam, that is the reason that fueled them, their religious principles were interpreted by them as us needing to be dealt with. This of course is not the general interpretation held by muslims, but these few were radicals.

But this still means that religion is used to provoke war or justify a conflict or even use religion to shield a conflict.

[AngryTitusPullo]

But this still means that religion is used to provoke war or justify a conflict or even use religion to shield a conflict.

I would rather say misunderstanding of religionis used to provoke war or justify a conflict or even use religion to shield a conflict.

What happened in 9/11 for example can be attribute to 2 factors.

Political and misunderstanding of Islam.

The political factor as we all know. OBL and Al-Qaeda main goal is the political aspect, yet if their only warcry happened to be the liberation of Plaestine and freeing middle-east from US 'occupancy' then there might be only middle-eastern (Arabs) who'll answers.

Arabs only form a small percentage of muslims worldwide.

By opening the quotation by calling for 'Jihad' then their call is direction to billions of muslims worldwide, no matter the geography and race.

Those muslims who have misunderstanding of their religion do unfortunately fell for the call.

[Playfishpaste]

It's still the same thing, they would not have done it if they did not believe they were receiving god's reward afterward. They wouldn't even have been in their organization if they did not believe in that religion. The existence of Islam caused the 9/11 attacks, indirectly.

EDIT: I'm also not saying that we didn't either, they have every reason to stand up for their nation as we have been treating it like dirt. I'm just saying Islam was a factor and if it weren't for Islam they would not have happened.

[Playfishpaste]

yes...so is science...and media...

[attilavolciak07]

yes...so is science...and media...

So you just admitted my point is correct.

[Playfishpaste]

It is very correct...I never disagreed with it...

[Odovacar]

Your point is utterly negliglible.
Wars start mainly because powerplay and economy.

Islam terrorism had not much to do with islam alone rather with the situation in Middle East.

[The Cobra]

It's not religion that advocates war, it's the human nature, with religion or not, War is Inevitable.
And don't tell me that the 9\11 attack was because Islam exists, the people who did it weren't even Muslims(not in literal means).

[BNS]

To be fair I can't think of a time were Buddhism was used to incite an offensive war.

[Playfishpaste]

I can't think of a time where unitarian universalism was either, he obviously means the major religions of history dude. And whilst buddhism certainly was an important one in history, it wasn't influential enough to kindle war.

[MaximiIian]

To be fair I can't think of a time were Buddhism was used to incite an offensive war.

Well, for example, in Japan, Buddhist monks did fight in rebellions and even hired their services as warrior-priests out like mercenaries to the highest bidding warlord. They often led peasant revolts; if that's not an offensive combat situation, then I am a duck.

[Claudius Gothicus]

Religion only works as an excuse for wars, humanity creates wars not religion. Still with religion out the way there would be wars.

[attilavolciak07]

Religion only works as an excuse for wars

That's my point. Religion can be used either rightfully or not to provoke wars.

[MaximiIian]

Same can be said for just about anything, though.