She-Hulk wills it!
Re: Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)
Alright folks,
I have now updated all links in post:1 - and for the first time since the summer of 2015, Redux has once again fully operational primary and reserve uploads, ready for business... While I am here, let me also point out (yet again) that all who uses VI-/GOLD-/ERAS-/STEAM-versions to run Redux are hereby extremely recommended to re-download the new and updated RX VI-module (released yesterday), and apply it on top of any previous installs. For a full details, see previous post.
- A
Re: Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)
I used to play this game back in the day and plan on buying it again soon. I will check this out. Thanks for your hard work. I would love to see a youtube campaign for M1TW from some vets and Legend only has the one Dane campaign that I saw. Do you upload youtube videos for this game? If so I will check them out.Originally Posted by Axalon
She-Hulk wills it!
Re: Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)
Hi Matt, thanks for posting and for the recognition as well...
While I am a heavy/regular viewer of YouTube stuff - I never had any account there, nor have I uploaded any videos of Redux (or otherwise). All the same, I would be happy to see someone else do it and upload some cool Redux-stuff there - battles or maybe some campaign (with various factions) - from someone who is active there or at least have an YT-account. I would probably link to the stuff right here, or have zero problem with someone else posted such a link here in this thread. As far as I know, this has only happened once before (see post: 409).
As for that Danish campaign on YT... I have not followed it - I have seen some parts of it. All the same, from what I saw (on YouTube), it seemed rather slow & average - as far as MTW-campaigns goes. Maybe it just me, maybe I missed something... Regardless, do try Redux. It is harder and more diverse all over then raw MTW - that by any standards. Personally, I also find Redux to be more interesting, attractive and entertaining then raw MTW. Some folks agree, others don't, and some have not tried it at all (and yet others simply refuse to do as much, while still voicing opinions about it anyhow. Yup, its true...).
- A
Last edited by Axalon; March 01, 2017 at 01:52 PM. Reason: Stuff!
Re: Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)
So. Played a couple of campaigns (Moors, Vikings, a bit of English) and I have come to two main conclusions. Firstly, you have put in an astonishing amount of effort and skill in making the whole thing look better. Secondly, you don't seem to know what made the original MTW such a popular and awesome game.
Ok that was a little aggressive on my part, but seeing as in previous posts you are telling people off for 'playing it wrong' I get the feeling that your mind is on rails. People can play games however they want, and berating someone for playing Spain and not attacking the Moors is absolutely nonsensical, especially considering the liberties you have taken with history here. But I digress. Lets look at the gameplay.
Campaign 1. The English. Standard difficulty.
Having read your many posts about how much more of a challenge Redux is, I must admit I am somewhat nervous. Also you state that understanding vanilla MTW will be almost no help in this version. So. Map looks great. Loving the extra clarity. Regions look pretty much the same, a few name changes...being able to build christian and pagan structures is a bit confusing (and completely fictitious. Stone circles were last constructed in Britain about two thousand years before the first Christian chapels), but I'll experiment with that later. Fearing that the Pope will start excommunicating me if I cause any Pagan ructions, I destroy all the stones and circles and start building churches. I also invade Wales. Lots to think about. It all looks very promising...
...a hundred turns later, and I am very very bored. The dynamism, the level of care that each turn required in the original is utterly absent. In this version I am clicking end turn five times in a row, moving all my new units to invade a province, fighting a battle against a huge stack of very similar troops wherever I go (except Ireland), then leaving that army in that province for twenty turns while I build enough structures there to stabilise the area, and then rinse and repeat. The economy is ok, but as I seem to need a big stack on each province, including my starting ones, theres not much left over. The result is a slow remorseless grind. I am in no real danger from anyone, because I have no weak areas. It is just endless repetition of the same battles, followed by twenty turns of waiting for stuff to build...Maybe I'm using the wrong faction?
Campaign 2. The Moors. Veteran Difficulty.
Played through nearly 200 turns of this. Same as before, except even more ridiculous levels of unrest. Mauritania and west Africa constantly threatening to revolt despite huge castles, advanced civic and religious buildings, and large stacks. And they were two of my starting provinces! The problem with this is that it is not a challenge, it is an annoyance. It doesnt add danger to strategies, it just slows them down. And also, having conquered Spain, the middle East, and parts of Turkey and France, The fact that my own people are more unhappy with my rule than the Christians I've just slaughtered seems most ungrateful to me. Vexing.
Apart from that, nothing interesting happens. Everyone has large stacks everywhere, the upshot of which is that it really doesnt matter who I attack. The armies are all roughly equivalent. There are some very basic strategies and tactics to pursue, but nothing particularly exciting. All factions seem to have equivalent units. A large amount of fairly hopeless light infantry, some very standardised heavy infantry, some spearmen, and a lot of types of Heavy Cavalry, all of which seem pretty much the same. The Moors have fairly rubbish Bodyguard units, but their (cheaper) Heavy Cavalry units are much bigger and better (and for their size, cheaper). None of it seems to make much sense historically, or on the battlefield. Since heavy armoured units are available to everyone, pretty much from the start, all battles tend to be a slugfest. Its almost like playing Command and Conquer! Also its really annoying that some straggler unit that previously broke and ran can attack my army from behind even though they've obviously lost the battle. Again, its not making battles more challenging, since both sides basically have to commit every unit from the start into a big scrum in the middle, and hope they've got better upgrades/morale/valour than the enemy. It just means you have to chase down every dozen enemies that break and run, for fear that they will return and blindside you. Anyway, in summary, another grindfest.
Campaign 3. The Vikings. Veteran Difficulty.
Im not sure if the difficulty setting changes anything other than starting money. The Vikings have pretty cheap units, and a lot of them are unique to this faction. Potentially a different experience then...
...200 turns in, pretty much the same story. Even though my armies don't mirror the enemies, the process of building an empire is exactly the same. Make a stack for each province +1. Attack new province with the +1 stack. Rebuild. Repeat. There is no real danger of defeat. My economy can easily keep up with my army costs...
...I should mention navies. Pretty early on, boats are appearing everywhere. Again, the result of this is a kind of stalemate (And Saracens invading Ireland, which was funny). The biggest random factor in the game, in terms of actually upsetting my plans, is some random pirate ship appearing in a place that gimps my unit movement, or cuts my leader off from most of the empire, depsite the fact that I have dozens of ships to his one little galley or sloop. This is silly. A sea should only be blockaded if the enemy outnumbers me. But maybe thats hardwired in. Anyway, the result is, more annoyance.
TLR? This mod seems designed for people who let the AI take care of almost everything, and just fight the occasional key battle. If you're happy pressing 'End Turn' more than any other button, this is the mod for you. If, like me, you fell in love with the original game because of its dynamism, its timeline, and the terrible, evil timing of the Pope's proclamations (he doesn't seem to do much of anything here) then maybe this is not the one. Unless someone mods the mod? =}
I should say that it is obvious the care and detail that Artifex has put into this mod. On many levels it is very polished, and I'm sure the battle AI in particular is far stronger than the vanilla one. The trouble is, there's very little fun or satisfaction to be had here imo. There's no flexibility of play. In the original game, for example, as the English, I once charged round France with a big stack under the command of the Black Prince, just burning and looting and pillaging, before returning to Normandy. Not only was it great fun (and increasingly dangerous as my army shrank and my enemies gave chase), but it changed the face of the game. The French lost a lot of important buildings, and I amassed a serious treasury from my looting. In this version, that joyous exercise would be impossible. Why? Because every province has a big army in it, because battles are always slugfests, and because even if you managed to storm through half a dozen provinces and return, triumphant, you would have achieved nothing. The looted provinces would immediately grow new large stacks, either loyalist or rebels, or new occupiers. This gets even worse once some factions have been eliminated, as they will almost certainly reappear in any unoccupied province. So in the end, only one tactic works. Grind.
I suppose I should try to be constructive.
1) Get rid of the heavy armour units in Eastern Europe and Arab factions. They are unrealistic and boring.
2) Get rid of the 'foresters' units, except for England (and maybe modify the English version. I would say much bigger unit, with huge upkeep (twice that of royal knights) They are supposed to represent the myth that Robin Hood joined Richard the Lionheart (briefly), but that is from the 13th century (I know your timeline doesn't mean a lot, but they were using longbows, so longbowmen really should appear first)
3) Increase the cost of all armoured units, especially knights, by a large amount. 1 plate armoured horseman with lance and sword and horse barding cost more to equip than an entire unit of leather armoured spearmen. That should be reflected in army compositions, and costs. (Burgundy once fielded 800 knights against me. In real terms thats 8000, or more than ever existed in the whole of Europe!)
4) Either get rid of advanced buildings for some factions, or make them useful. With the Vikings, I had maxed out spearmakers and swordsmiths in occupied provinces in Europe, but all I could produce was basic archers. This is clearly unrewarding.
5) is there any timeline? Do more units get introduced in later periods? I really cant be bothered to wait around and find out. I could have won any of my test games by now, but I was waiting to see if anything happened. If I have to wait to turn 400 to get access to new units I might just gouge my eyes out with a spoon...
6) rebalance the unit costs so that raising huge stacks (of elite units) is not feasible
7) rebalance the economy so that raising huge stacks (of anything) everywhere is not feasible
8) rebalance the province stability so that raising huge stacks everywhere is not necessary
I have a lot more suggestions and queries but I've been typing enough for now. I know that in the end everyone who mods is building the type of game that they personally enjoy, and I should just learn how to do it myself...it just astonishes me that someone so involved in MTW can see it so differently. It's supposed to be about the tactical/strategic choices in each turn, surely? I've had to return to old saves to figure out where my economy went wrong, or why my royal line died out, or other seemingly trivial moments that became significant later on. In Redux I just keep building, keep producing, keep grinding. The more I think about it the more it reminds me of an incredibly slow-motion version of C&C. (I don't like C&C, can you tell?)
Anyway, that's my ha'penny's worth of comment. Carry on.
Re: Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)
Obviously I meant Axalon
She-Hulk wills it!
Re: Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)
What to say....
I don’t really see how all this will end up in a meaningful activity or exchange for me, or many others for that matter. Sure, I could argue with your posts mediocre attempts at critique on Redux in general - but - I do have better and more interesting things to do, you know...
I also noticed your practice of frequently distorting, disregarding or “tailoring” the actual meaning of my posts - so what good it would it do to discuss anything with someone who won’t properly read or try to do my posts proper justice anyhow? As in, even if I did bother to discuss in this case, it will still not truly matter what I actually post - because of that very practice. It will still just end up as wasted time, energy and effort.
Besides, your “evaluation” here strikes me as little else then a pretense as to “warrant” personal urges to (above all) voice disapproval of Redux in public (and especially so in relation to raw MTW, it seems). While I doubt you would ever admit as much - that would still be my first guess all the same. I mean, had you actually been serious here, you would have done at least some basic research beforehand, among other things. As in reading the release-notes and so forth. Trying to get some clue about Redux in general, its designs and traits - examine the info provided etc. etc. Before you did anything else... Obviously, none of that happened and many of your posts ignorant, misplaced and stupid/clueless remarks could perhaps have been avoided altogether, if you had. No matter...
As far as I am concerned, this was your "15 minutes claim to fame"… Now, please don't bother me, or this thread again.
"Next..."
- A
She-Hulk wills it!
Re: Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)
Alright, I have discovered yet another error in RXB1006 (regardless of version).... The stated stability values on Townwatch-buildings are off by 1%. The correct values for RXB1006 are 2%, 4%, 6% and 8% (final stage), and this can be corrected by accessing the relevant entries in the "descriptions.txt" in loc (and fill in the right numbers manually).
I also noticed that the shipyards-string have the wrong names attached to them in their "completed-" and "destroyed-"messages. These errors can be easily fixed in the very same way - manually by accessing and correcting the all relevant entries in the "descriptions.txt" in loc (don't forget to back up the file - before - just to be safe). Naturally, ALL these errors will be corrected with the next release or patch of Redux....
As ever, if you encounter or discover other unreported and valid (or suspected) errors, bugs and the like - please report it in. That way I can at least attempt to fix it, and faster too - as non-reported stuff won't get fixed, for self-explanatory reasons (unless I happen to discover it myself). You can either report things directly here, in this thread, or use the dedicated RX-debug-thread over at this place...
- A
Re: Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)
I've only recently been able to get the old Medieval Total War working again, so I guess I'm a latecomer to this mod. I played through a few campaigns, then as is my wont. went in search of a mod that made everything bigger and more epic. I tried several, most of which changed little to nothing obvious, and one that I just flat out could not get to work. By far the winner though has been this mod, Redux.
The revised campaign map is great and the Supremacy campaign even greater, at least for me. I much enjoy the much expanded building tree and much greater variety of units. Things like champion units et al add a lot of flavour, giving you the impression of deploying elite forces. The stack sizes though can get awfully thin if overdone. I typically stick one or a few such units in with more numerous feudal knights and footknights so as to make those stacks not 'too' small. I keep wondering how I would fare though with a commander running around with only fifteen champions.
I do have a couple of critiques though. One is that I seem to be able to field footknights by as early as year 40 in Supremacy and feudal knights just a few turns later. This is of course not without making some economic sacrifices, but even with some turns added to build economic buildings, it is still awfully quick. This would be less an issue if there were units that were better workhorse units later in the building progression, however there are not. The putatively more advanced units are in many ways inferior to those essential units, mostly due to severely constrained unit sizes. Looking at the actual stats of later units, for the cost I would much rather have for instance, two or three units of feudal knights than one unit of royal cavalry, same cost/build time. (English knights are inferior to feudal knights for the cost and take twice as long to field equal numbers, which is odd for a special unit.)
I would like to see units that take over a hundred turns of building progression to achieve, and then more that take two hundred, that are actually better (for the build time, cost and upkeep) than the units I can field on turn 40-50.
Now I think I'll go see what happens when you field a stack of nothing but grand champions.
Edit: Also, I think the valor enhancing buildings are not working. I've built numerous such buildings which 'should' be conferring bonuses upon troops, but they rarely do.
She-Hulk wills it!
Re: Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)
Hello Panpiper, welcome to da TWC and thanks for posting here....
I'll get back to your post as soon as I can. After, I have posted about the current mess of this entire
section, and that in relevant places and instances. I'll get back here, and reply to your post, no worries.
- A
She-Hulk wills it!
Re: Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)
Hello again Panpiper, some comments/replies then...
***
Overall, I would not recommend it… As a garrison it will barely grant any provincial stability, nor will it offer a reliable defence of that province. If it encounters any crossbows or heavy halbardiers, or something like that your champions will soon have problems in no time. Its not a serious strategy and I doubt that it will fare well against RX-AI armies long term.
People usually do…
In short, supremacy-mode offers extreme circumstances, which in turn allows extreme results – if persued. Usually, it takes a lot longer for most players in classic-mode to get feudal knights, and the designs reflects that.
In more detail… Supremacy-mode with its extreme circumstances are hardly valid in any catholic campaign in classical-mode – and, the unit-design are created (and intended) for classic-mode. Supremacy-mode uses the very same designs (much due to engine-limitations, especially in V1.1). It will be extremely unlikly that most players can “unlock” Feudal knights in 40 turns (even if the absolute minimal time is actually shorter in RXB1006) in classic mode.
Its unlikely we have enough cash for it (this on normal or veteran difficulty). It is also extremely unlikely that we can freely pursue such a plan and build all the stuff needed to enable “Feudal knights” at express or minimal building-times – this without any external threats and interference that essentially forces us to do otherwise.
There are actually four factors to consider in this context… Time, tech, cost and security (including order there)… And as far as I can tell you are essentially disregarding “cost” altogether, security pretty much too, in you reasoning - as you seem to focus on little else then time and tech. I think that is a serious flaw with your reasoning and it is probably also the main reason as for why I don’t buy your analysis in general – while I still do understand it (I think, anyways). Its too colored by circumstances found at Supremacy-mode (and particularly at start-up). At least that is the feeling I am getting here….
Technically, it is possible to do all the things you are asking for… And, it also possible to do a sub-mod for Redux that makes things just like that. If you are unhappy or unsatified with the way I have designed the units in Redux. It is possible to fix it by creating a sub-mod for Redux. All it takes someone actually willing to do it - and that won’t be me, as I am pretty happy with things as they are (for a bunch of reasons). If you think it should be like that, then you do it… If the end result is seriously and well done - I’ll probably welcome any external/third-party sub-mod for Redux on this or such notes.
My guess (as I have no actual specifics to go on here)… It’s a matter of specific buildings and the actual designs of relevant troops in question (which was?). Plenty of troops in Redux can’t get any such tech-bonuses at all (regardless of buildings) – this by deliberate design. Its possible that it might be such units that have made you believe this. Once you identify the troops you had in mind here - I or someone else – can/could check out the files and get definite answers on it (for you and others interested).
Alright, that is all I got for you. Thanks again
for posting (here) and feel free to do so again.
- A
Re: Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)
Well I just for the sake of it started up a campaign on standard, not supremacy, playing as the Spanish, with is technically rather harder being penned in and unable to grab income generating territory. I married off my princesses to all my neighbors to keep them non-hostile. I achieved feudal foot knights by 734 and that was with over 10,000 florins saved up. Feudal knights became available two turns later. I didn't actually rush them. In addition to several economic buildings in the first few turns and a couple of unrest buildings, I had built the first level armorer and weaponsmith prior, because I detest fielding units that don't have extra symbols on them. I had also put down several economic buildings in Leon and Navarre. Oh, and I already had half a stack of champions by the time I could lay in the order for feudal foot knights. In ten turns, I shall crush Portugal, and the Spanish juggernaut begins.
Now admittedly I was using the exploit of deliberately cranking up the unrest on Leon and Navarre to get as many revolts as I could. Then I would have my princes put down the revolts, not incidentally greatly boosting their defensive command ratings from the XP of successive fights. This would generate significant revenue from 'confiscated lands', probably averaging around 500 a turn.
What I would recommend is to tie the feudal estate, royal court line to the higher level city buildings, so at least the critical feudal court (the one that gives you the best troops) would require one higher city architecture. Have each upgrade of that feudal estate, royal court line require the next level of city upgrade. That would admittedly only have slowed me down by eight turns, as I had the cash on hand for that upgrade if it were necessary, but at least it would be a bit more of a bump.
I do think that royal cavalry needs a boost, enough to make them superior to feudal knights. At the least make them equal in stats, but take away the impulsiveness to give them advantage.
I actually would be interested in doing such a sub-mod if I actually had a clue as to where all the relevant data was, and how to open the data files in something that actually displays it in table format as opposed the the mess that notepad gives us.
She-Hulk wills it!
Re: Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)
Hello again Panpiper,
I prefer to do straight up war myself… Its more dangerous and difficult - granted but it is also more fun. I think anyways… Its probably a matter of player-style…
That sounds pretty good for a RX-rookie but then again it still possible (and Spain do have some of the necessary buildings already in Castile at start-up). The saved up 10.000-part here, are especially impressive to me (considering its Spain and turn 34). Didn't you have too spend your cash somehow? Up to that point? Like paying for all the new buildings or getting new troops to cover casualties? Stuff like that? ...I assume all this was played on standard-difficulty, or am I wrong about that?
You mean Feudal Champions, right? Champions are not available at that point (with Feudal Court)….
Well that explains part of your success, but did you not have casualties fighting the rebels? Didn’t you have too buy new troops as to keep fighting (new stacks of rebels) eventually?
The idea is not bad, and I think I understand what you are aiming for… I say, save it for a Redux sub-mod, because it is unlikely that I will do that thing myself - this for a bunch of reasons, such as AI-performance etc etc...
I disagree, but if you do a Redux-sub-mod you are free to make it happen.
You are welcome to do so. You need a GnomeEditor, and the files you need to work on are both crusader_build_prod11 and 13 files. In da game directory... You can make all the changes you talk about by altering those two files (back and forth)… The magic GnomeEditor is available here at…
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=4238
- A
THE BEARDED MACE
Re: Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)
Hey Axalon
Long time no see. I hope you're doing well.
Checking your thread to see the progress of your excellent mod. One of my all time favorites. I'll re-download the latest version and try to remember the old moves.
Cheers
G.S
She-Hulk wills it!
Re: Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)
Hello Strategos and thanks for posting,
As it is, I have been quietly working on RXB1007, which I hope to release (sometime) later this year. Its mainly about polish and corrections thus far except a big reform/change on farming and its designs. Farming will have additional levels and smaller upgrades which in turn will make things take more time and cash harder to get - ultimately making Redux a bit harder and slower to progress, as florins will then be tougher to acquire. I'll probably post some more on that note later on.
- A
She-Hulk wills it!
Re: Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)
200.000 views!
That is a mighty milestone for any TW-thread.... Little did I know back in 2008 (when I created this RX-thread) that it would eventually end up as one of the biggest MTW-related threads ever - at the TWC, or even otherwise! I never expected it to even reach 100K - let alone 200k, as is now the case - or that it would still be valid almost 10 years after its creation! Or that I still would bother to work with the RX-project somehow - as Beta1007 is already planned for release later this year - if that happens, it will be the 8th full release since 2011! Obviously, my thanks goes to all fans and people interested of/in Redux - which with their continuous interest in the project over the years have ultimately made this thread what it is today.
Thanks guys!
*******************************************
I'll squeeze in yet another post here, while I'm at it.... Folks, I would like to have some opinions on these Muslim princesses - as I am somewhat torn... See images below. Which do you guys prefer/like the most? The black and white alternative princesses - or - the standard gold and orange kind? ...Thoughts?
These are the standard gold and orange kind...
These are the alternative white and black kind...
Basically, help me decide.
- A
Last edited by Axalon; July 15, 2017 at 04:56 PM. Reason: Mo clarity...
Civis
Re: Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)
Keep the gold and orange ones. The others look too boring.
Last edited by Frunk; July 17, 2017 at 08:19 AM. Reason: Quote removed.
Form Follows Function
Re: Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)
Orange and yellow look much better to me, too. The black and white look more "western", if you will.
She-Hulk wills it!
Re: Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)
Thanks guys for your input, have some rep on me... I'll stick with the standard princesses and include the other set as additional bonus material for RXB1007.
- A
Semisalis
Re: Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)
Axalon I enjoyed playing your mod a long time ago. But now my computer is Windows 10 and my MTW copy doesn't work on that.
Did anything change in that area.
Would be fun to play MTW again.
She-Hulk wills it!
Re: Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)
Hi William,
Yes... Assuming here that you have the VI/v.2.01 somehow... If you download the right (inofficial) fix you should be able to play MTW1 and Redux on both W7 & W10 with little problems or incident. Courtesy of "mwnn" (over at the MTW-steam forum).... There is also the Steam-option. It will cost you about 10 euros - with (roughly) the same result. Of course the are still some quirks and drawbacks that one is seemingly forced to put up with - in both solutions - such as (seemingly hardcoded) low GFX memory (64Mb cap) making battles (and especially units and shields) look like crap (low rez) if there are too many troops involved. Don't ask me why CA did not have the wits to fix that part properly when they had the chance in 2015, or whenever it was.... Regardless....
Link to unofficial W7 & W10-fix for MTW1...
http://www4.zippyshare.com/v/fgvsCxwJ/file.html
- A
----------------------
Don't mind that the download is an EXE-file - this one is actually all right. If there are
any problems - let me know and I'll personally upload this patch somewhere else.
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