Medieval Total War - Redux (Beta)

[Axalon]

Alright Staz, muchas gracias... For your swift reply, and the info provided. I'll upgrade and expand (and move) your already existing credit to "Steam-consultant" as well in RXB1006. I expected it to be more screwed up then that - being Steam and all - but it seems like I was thankfully wrong on this note.

- A
-------------
I can't rep you again, as you were the last guy I repped anyways - the system
won't allow it. Otherwise I would.

[Frunk]

I can't rep you again, as you were the last guy I repped anyways - the system
won't allow it. Otherwise I would.

I repped him on your behalf.

[Axalon]

Thanks Frunk! Let me know if I can do the same for you sometime...

- A

[Axalon]

Folks...

Today, its the 6th November... Time we had some update on RXB1006... So, lets have some... Princesses! Can it ever
get more important?!? Even the greeks of old knew that it was important enough cause to start wars over!





- A

[Axalon]

Folks, the RXB1006 is happening and its taking Redux to the next level... Get ready and grab your copy on the 16th...



- A

[Frunk]

Very exciting!

[Ngugi]

Nice, got M1 again recently, could do with a modification! Mmm, fresh mods & julmust...

[Axalon]

Ok folks, while (unfortunately) delayed for several hours, here it finally is... The RXB1006...
The links are live, and be sure to stock up on the julmust!



- A

[Harðurāðaz]

Very nice!!

[Ironlich]

Honestly, this mod was overall great when i played it but champion units were terribly broken... with high honour value, they were like gods. For this reason, i nerfed all champion units by giving them less attack.

[Axalon]

Hello all, and thanks for posting guys...

Honestly, this mod was overall great when i played it but champion units were terribly broken... with high honour value, they were like gods. For this reason, i nerfed all champion units by giving them less attack.

Anyone here who wants to reply to this remark? ...Or should I? ...?...

Very nice!!

Thanks man... BTW, nice looking hammer you got there...

- A

[Ironlich]

Well apart from that, i think the game suffered a bit from the lack of provinces... this is not only true for redux, but all vanilla total wars. I think this is related to the AI behaviour, but smaller maps make things easier for the human player, mainly because the AI is slow to expand, while the player is fast. This way you can quickly gain an edge over all the other factions. I remember that the campaign was basically decided in the first 20-30 turns... and it obviosly ended with me victorious. But in larger maps the AI has more time to expand properly, and a couple of powerful factions may emerge to challenge your rule.

Personally, i achieved the best result ever by playing a large campaign map with the barbarian invasion exe on the highest level of difficulty and by tweaking the AI behaviour quite a bit ( this was in RTW of course ). There, for the very first time i got raped by the AI and i am proud of it :p

[Axalon]

Since apparently nobody else will offer a response to your posts, I'll do it...

Honestly, this mod was overall great when i played it but champion units were terribly broken... with high honour value, they were like gods. For this reason, i nerfed all champion units by giving them less attack.

I think there is a major difference between "terribly broken" and "not designed to my personal liking"... I know for a fact that they are not broken and that they actually function just fine with other troops in Redux. I have actually tested these things, more then once, you know. Apply the right tactics and methods, and the champions are soon food for crows. Even the AI will kill and finish off the champions eventually - especially if they are used carelessly or unsupported (by the player). There is nothing wrong with them and you can't build and army of say 12 champions or whatever and expect to win any serious battles with that line-up, much in the same way it would be for only using 12 peasant hordes (or whatever).

If you don't like the champions as is, then you can either do exactly something like you already did (change them), or remove them from the unit-roster completely (this by using the Gnome-Editor), and problem solved. I have made Redux very flexible with units with this very kind of stuff in mind. ...Every player/gamer have their own ideas on this stuff - whether those ideas actually hold up well in reality or not is a different matter altogether. There is only one way to truly find out, and that is by testing it. Something I have already done plenty, more so then most I would say.

***

Well apart from that, i think the game suffered a bit from the lack of provinces... this is not only true for redux, but all vanilla total wars. I think this is related to the AI behaviour, but smaller maps make things easier for the human player, mainly because the AI is slow to expand, while the player is fast. This way you can quickly gain an edge over all the other factions. I remember that the campaign was basically decided in the first 20-30 turns... and it obviosly ended with me victorious. But in larger maps the AI has more time to expand properly, and a couple of powerful factions may emerge to challenge your rule.

Are you actually talking about Redux? Because it don't sound like it. Are you really sure you are not confusing Redux here with raw MTW (or any close modifications of that)? Because your post would make a lot more sense then.

I mean... I couldn't secure a win within 20-30 turns in Redux - even if I wanted too. There is no way in hell I would manage to pull that off. I probably couldn't even secure a certain win within a 100 turns in Redux - even if I used the lowest possible difficulty-settings. Even if I played the Saracens, I would probably still fail at it. While in regards to raw MTW its quite another story altogether - I can easily win within 100 turns or (much) less, regardless of any difficulty settings, or factions. After all, I'm the guy who has established that one can indeed beat raw MTW (on maxed out difficulty) in less then 30 turns even, and I have done this more then once (and that with different factions, and Eras. For reference, see here.).

Personally, i achieved the best result ever by playing a large campaign map with the barbarian invasion exe on the highest level of difficulty and by tweaking the AI behaviour quite a bit ( this was in RTW of course ). There, for the very first time i got raped by the AI and i am proud of it :p

Well, I never was a true fan of RTW... Its an entertaining game and all, but I think it also fails to seriously deliver on the thing that I do value the most - proper and solid battle-simulations, like in MTW and STW. Thus I never played it much, I played on VH directly with little problems. RTW just don't interest me in the same way - shuffleling garrisons back and forth, building temples, worrying about squalor, and what have you... Overall, its easier to win then in MTW1 anyhow, that much is clear to me.

Regardless... I have no clue what you have actually played in Redux, or with what settings applied - but - my guess would be that it has not been Spain or Poland on veteran level, default size, on the RX-classic campaign. Try those, at that level and setting, that is as tough as it gets in MTW - anywhere, I would imagine... Even I can totally loose with Spain if an important enough battle goes to hell. Try it out, and see how long you last on veteran level/default size (and yes, that means you pick a fight with the Moors. Peace with the Moors are for cowards). Reduxed Russia, HRE and the Norse provide different and other challenges, but a bit easier ones. Italy, France and England are generally easier still. Saracens, Moors and Byzantines are basically as easy as it gets in Redux.

Try either Spain or Poland (on veteran level), see how it goes... How fast you can expand with them etc. etc.

- A

[LordLurch]

I know that there is one that comes with the mod download, but do you think that you could post a changelog (or a link to one) for the new version?

[MonsieurMaggot]

I know that there is one that comes with the mod download, but do you think that you could post a changelog (or a link to one) for the new version?

The 1006 version upgrades, changes or introduce close to 700
files in total, scattered all over the game. Many changes are in
terms of GFX but there are several other changes too. Many units
have their color-patterns changed, for increased general
distinction and consistency in the field - making it easier to
spot various kinds of units from a distance, while also
increasing diversity in the field (I think anyways). Some units
have been removed/cut and a few have been added since the 1005a-
version. Castles have been given greater complexity and meaning
to the overall game and has become much less standardized -
upgrading a keep for instance do have meaning and benefits now,
in great contrast to past versions or the raw game. There are
plenty of other stuff included too that you guys will have to
discover for yourselves…

Overall, the 1006 is one of the largest upgrades released for
Redux ever since 2011 and it clearly pushes onwards in the same
path already initiated with the previous 1005-releases.

Lastly, all found and identified bugs (and errors) have been
killed or fixed, as much as possible, and due to some changes in
file-structures, this version is NOT save-game compatible with
ANY previous versions of Redux. Sorry for that. You must thus
start a fresh new game to run beta 1006.

[LordLurch]

Thanks. Rep.

[Ironlich]

There is nothing wrong with them and you can't build and army of say 12 champions or whatever and expect to win any serious battles with that line-up

Omg well :p... i wish i could post a video where i utterly destroy an army of spearmen/swordsmen with my army of feudal champions and knight champions. But they had high honour and upgraded armor/weapons, so it takes some " farming " to get the godlike champions but fact is, they gain honour very very fast. I don't remember the exact value but feudal champions had about 8* (armor piercing) attack and huge defense. By nerfing their attack to 5 they turned out to be still powerful but not that awesome anymore, you get the idea.

As for the rest, well i played exactly Spain on Veteran difficulty and it was pretty easy. The moors didn't attack me at all for some reason so i could focus my efforts on france. Then i took on the italians and conquered their rich lands. I was very rich because i upgraded all the economy buildings and it was easy to defend the conquered regions, just place some good champions inside a castle. The AI is stupid enough to assault you, resulting in catastrophic losses for them, and much honour upgrade for my men xd

But then, i probably forgot to say that i am quite easily among the best MTW/RTW players because i know all the game mechanics and how to fool the AI :p... so i guess a random player would find redux incredibly hard.

[Axalon]

This post offers replies and remarks to posts 552, 554 and 557…I’ll start with Lurch’s post (554) as it’s easier that way…

Lurch (or others interested in such and similar things), was there anything particular you were interested in or had in mind? The general rule on these things is usually that the more specific a question can be, or is formulated - the more accurate and informative the answer to it can be. I’ll certainly try to provide a more detailed answer if I get more specific questions here, either on that note or something else….


***

Regarding post 557, and including 552 as well… I'll start with this bit...

Omg well :p... i wish i could post a video where i utterly destroy an army of spearmen/swordsmen with my army of feudal champions and knight champions. But they had high honour and upgraded armor/weapons, so it takes some " farming " to get the godlike champions but fact is, they gain honour very very fast. I don't remember the exact value but feudal champions had about 8* (armor piercing) attack and huge defense. By nerfing their attack to 5 they turned out to be still powerful but not that awesome anymore, you get the idea.

First of all “Feudal Champions” are not “Champions”, and they are not any solo units – they are still 5 man units. As a result they will obviously deal more damage to enemy units and survive longer as a unit because of the fact, this due to how combat-mechanics works in MTW.

Secondly, Feudal Champions are actually supposed to cut thru regular and basic infantry (spear- or swordinfantry, makes little difference) – that is their specialty and what they are supposed to do… That you also can do this with your (upgraded) Feudal Champions are hardly spectacular but actually a receipt that the intended design is working just fine and according to plan.

Thirdly, unit design are typically done (and balanced) for raw units – not somehow upgraded ones – the reason is simple - the MTW mechanics is not flexible enough to allow anything else unit-design-wise. And, it would be virtually impossible to do it within that internal framework and the possibilities and factors to consider overall would be about ten times more essentially. Each upgrade you do or apply to a unit will (obviously) upset the design and balance for that unit in regards to other units. Do you think it’s fair to seriously upgrade a unit and thenpoint out that the very same unit is imbalanced in regards to other units? …?... Does that strike you as fair or even rational in general? Thus far, that is essentially what you have been doing (in your posts) here. Get my drift?

Lastly, you have apparently played Redux a single time… Am I supposed to take your various statements about Redux (in general, on units or otherwise) seriously, anyways? Come on, get real… Besides, even after a single campaign it should have already dawned on you (or anybody) that Redux is a very different beast then raw MTW and that one can hardly rely on any prior MTW-experience when it comes to figuring out or playing Redux. After all, the map is different, the units, the factions, the buildings, the circumstances and the overall designs etc are all different. Only a really inexperienced MTW-player would fail to realize all that. Units or otherwise…

As for the rest, well i played exactly Spain on Veteran difficulty and it was pretty easy. The moors didn't attack me at all for some reason so i could focus my efforts on france. Then i took on the italians and conquered their rich lands. I was very rich because i upgraded all the economy buildings and it was easy to defend the conquered regions, just place some good champions inside a castle. The AI is stupid enough to assault you, resulting in catastrophic losses for them, and much honour upgrade for my men xd

Seriously… One does not play Spain on veteran-level to then attack/focus on France and have peace with the Moors. That is hardly the classical Spanish campaign or challenge that everyone is talking/thinking about. If you want do that, you play another faction like say England or HRE - at least I would… One would think that much was obvious for all – yet it seems I stand corrected on this very note. Regardless…

As I understand it, you have played a single campaign in Redux. If true, let me spell it out for you - not even the raw MTW-campaigns are that static that we supposedly know all about it after a single campaign. It shifts back and forth somewhat, and varies from campaign to campaign. Redux does that too – and this at whole other level then raw MTW ever did. Do you actually believe that your campaign would be essentially the same if you had not chickened out with the Moors? Is it truly realistic to actually assume that one knows much about Redux (or even a single faction) after a single campaign? This regardless of the rout taken with it? Hardly. In reality, no campaign is the same as the next one in Redux - as illustrated clearly below.



This old image shows 10 different/separate campaigns, and that after 100 turns of pure AI-activity in RXB1005 - using the same AI as the RXB1006 uses. As indicated - no single campaign can seriously be expected to be actually representative for Redux at large or any other campaigns in it - even if it where the same faction. It varies too much for that. Also, all previous (non-Redux) MTW-experiences are essentially obsolete and irrelevant to Redux as they are simply not relevant there to meaningful degrees. People who have played Redux many times (and campaigns) know this already, as this circumstance has been true for many years now - at least since 2011 (and possibly before that as well). Nah, it’s the people that don’t know Redux and the experience it generates, that typically makes the big and bold claims about or in relation to it. ...And, this ‘ol image basically put all them claims to shame (yet again).

...it was easy to defend the conquered regions, just place some good champions inside a castle. The AI is stupid enough to assault you, resulting in catastrophic losses for them, and much honour upgrade for my men xd
But then, i probably forgot to say that i am quite easily among the best MTW/RTW players because i know all the game mechanics and how to fool the AI :p... so i guess a random player would find redux incredibly hard.

Nope, the AI is stupid to assault you with the wrong kinds troops... And that is not the same thing, now is it? I too would have assaulted you in such circumstances... Now, if the AI had or used the right kinds of troops in its assault - your skeleton-“garrison” would probably soon have been killed many times over and the entire province lost as result. In this given case, some two units of crossbows would probably have sufficed to terminate your defenders with little effort. Furthermore, having such small “garrisons” in a province yields almost none stability or security to it – as it allows no serious capacity to defend it in the field. So, as control of the province is lost - because the deliberate retreat to the castle - it usually also takes damage somehow - apart from that we get no taxes/income from it (until it is liberated again). Personally, I would hardly categorize that “retreat-doctrine” as a successful, healthy or viable strategy because of the outlined reasons. Instead, I would have tried to defend the province directly in the field – then again, one will need to have some kind of serious army for that (to begin with).

***

Alright, that’s enough on all this…

- A

[Axalon]

Re-download & re-install RXB1006...

As usual, some (damned) errors find their way into my release, and the RXB1006 is no exception. While its good that I can spot some of that stuff on my own, it still creates some problems in general (as one could expect). Anyhow, as it has not even been a full week since the initial release - I am basically left was left with two choices... A). Create a new patch that 50% of people probably won't even bother downloading anyhow... B). Patch Redux myself and re-upload it and recommend people to re-download and re-install it to fix them errors permanently. I decided to go with the latter...

Thus, I fully recommend and request that ALL people that currently play, or plan to play, or have downloaded RXB1006 prior to Dec 22, please do re-download and then re-install it to fix the various small errors I already spotted/found within the initial release (made the 16th). The new release is fully save-game compatible with the previous RXB1006, and it won't break your current game, just improve and fix it. As it so close to the original and first release, I have not even bothered updating the version-number. The new uploads are already in place, and the links for them are live (see post: 1).


Here is a small list of the changes the new upload of RXB1006 will bring...

• Fixing the Nubian warriors...
• Various glory shields corrected...
• Lower upkeep on Muslim nobles…
• Removing defect quickbattle files...
• Thresholds for honour on all hero & champion (or similar) units adjusted...
• Castle descriptions provided wrong stability numbers…
• Muslim Princess-feature corrected (VI-versions only).
• Deadpage coords updated (VI-versions only).

As a compensation for the inconvenience, I have also included...

• New design-document on castle-variables in RXB1006. (bonus materials)
• Updated design document on stability in Redux. (bonus materials)
• +6 new orthodox portraits for generals... (bonus materials)

- A

[Axalon]

Hello again folks,

I have finally had time to edit in a bunch of remarks/replies in post: 558... And, I have now also updated post:1 with some additional links for RXB1006 from GameFront - and once I get full clearance (by the host, "within a few days") for the new and patched RXB1006-VI upload - I'll edit in those links too... For now, I have created a temporal upload at my own site, and we will make due with that for the moment, but that will disappear once I get the formal clearance at my regular hosts... Anyhow... Yup, the biggest news today are still that I found yet more errors in the VI-version, and that I also created a patch and fix for all errors I found there... Full details and statement below...

***

RXB1006-VI Patched! 24.02.2017

I have (again) discovered a bunch of bugs and errors in the VI-version of Redux and I have now created a fix/patch for all errors I found. I made a new (patched) upload of RXB1006-VI that replaced the old one (pending clearance, as I write this). All who uses VI-/GOLD-/ERAS-/STEAM-versions to run Redux are hereby highly recommended to once again re-download the new RX VI-module, and apply it on top of the previous install. It is fully save-game compatible. Anyhow, as I don’t use the VI-version personally, it usually is that very version that holds the most errors/bugs and get to be the last to be fixed - and its obviously true this time around as well. The V.1.1-version has had none of these problems/errors, all fixed and listed errors below are VI/2.01-exclusive… The fixed errors are as follows…

• Wrong battlebanner - Byzantines
• Wrong battlebanner - Saracens
• Wrong battlebanner - Papacy
• Wrong battlebanner - England
• Wrong battlebanner - France
• Wrong battlebanner - Italy

• Wrong BIF-plate used – Order Cavalry
• Wrong camp-map armymarker shields – Saracens (all shields)
• Wrong listing in solo-battles - Norse Infantry listed as Cavalry…
• Faction unit-rosters cleaned up for solo battles – Aragon, Burgundy, England, France, Portugal, HRE, Lombards, Italy, Spain, Papacy, Poland, Hungary.
• HRE had no access to unit – Order Cavalry
• Spain had no access to unit – Order Cavalry


Enjoy Redux, as it was meant to be folks....

- A