Decanus
Re: GOAT and GOAL: A collection of modelling and animation utilities
@Rorarii
Yes, that's where at least one extra bone would come in. If it is a child
of the bone_saddle and goes back to the chariot (so we could add two
more bones to animate the wheels), then any rocking motion by bone_saddle
can be "cancelled" by suitably counter rotating the chariot bone.
Especially for any anims that have the horses rearing.
Decanus
Re: GOAT and GOAL: A collection of modelling and animation utilities
Here's a three extra bone skeleton if you want to try playing around with
it:
Copy and paste it in a file and make the file's extension be .skelmerge.Code:bone_H_Saddle , , +0.0000000000 , +0.0000000000 , +0.0000000000 bone_Spine , bone_H_Saddle , +0.0001452830 , -0.0151966996 , +0.4446060061 bone_Spine1 , bone_Spine , +0.0006578590 , -0.0245501008 , +0.4198270142 bone_Neck , bone_Spine1 , +0.0008467390 , +0.0139800003 , +0.5470259786 bone_Head , bone_Neck , +0.0071678599 , +0.5777239799 , +0.4736509919 bone_RightArm , bone_Spine1 , -0.2537220120 , -0.2715969980 , +0.5931140184 bone_RightForeArm , bone_RightArm , +0.0000306028 , -0.3205269873 , +0.0193390008 bone_RightHand , bone_RightForeArm , +0.0000488071 , -0.4961239994 , +0.0302742999 bone_RightFingerBase , bone_RightHand , +0.0000341026 , -0.3660829961 , +0.0222389009 bone_LeftArm , bone_Spine1 , +0.2555060089 , -0.2715960145 , +0.5923159719 bone_LeftForeArm , bone_LeftArm , +0.0000304943 , -0.3205200136 , +0.0193103999 bone_LeftHand , bone_LeftForeArm , +0.0000469623 , -0.4961229861 , +0.0303035993 bone_LeftFingerBase , bone_LeftHand , +0.0000363001 , -0.3660820127 , +0.0222395007 bone_Tail1 , bone_H_Saddle , -0.0002688530 , +0.0194744002 , -0.2931849957 bone_Tail2 , bone_Tail1 , -0.0005695900 , -0.3195210099 , -0.3636940122 bone_RightUpLeg , bone_H_Saddle , -0.2247990072 , -0.2321140021 , -0.1584759951 bone_RightLeg , bone_RightUpLeg , +0.0000070131 , -0.3785620034 , +0.0039954502 bone_RightFoot , bone_RightLeg , -0.0000009631 , -0.4450980127 , +0.0000083696 bone_RightToeBase , bone_RightFoot , +0.0000018177 , -0.6024720073 , -0.0000081255 bone_LeftUpLeg , bone_H_Saddle , +0.2339520007 , -0.2229759991 , -0.1583569944 bone_LeftLeg , bone_LeftUpLeg , +0.0000050462 , -0.3876999915 , +0.0031598900 bone_LeftFoot , bone_LeftLeg , -0.0000087630 , -0.4450980127 , +0.0000056838 bone_LeftToeBase , bone_LeftFoot , -0.0000151929 , -0.6024720073 , -0.0000081119 bone_chariot , bone_H_Saddle , 0.0 , 0.0 , -3.0 bone_Rwheel , bone_chariot , -1.0 , 0.0 , 0.0 bone_Lwheel , bone_chariot , +1.0 , 0.0 , 0.0
Then run GOAT and click the merge with external skeleton button.
Select your chariot as the model, then select the .skelmerge file.
You'll get a new .ms3d file with the three extra bones in it. Adjust to
suit your chariot model so the wheel bones go straight out to the wheels.
Remember when playing with bones, Milkshape sometimes puts in
rotations, so go to Tools->Zero Joints after you get the bones the way
you like them and run that plug-in. Then save.
I can cover the procedure for exporting the skeleton to the animations
later, or you can check in the User's Guide. But once you have a set
of fs_horse .cas files with the extra bones in them, you can animmerge
and start seeing how hard it is to counter the "leaf motion" in the
keyframer. It should mostly be small x-rotations that have to be zeroed
out.
Decanus
Re: GOAT and GOAL: A collection of modelling and animation utilities
@Rorarii
Apologies, I know now what was buzzing in my brain all night. You've got
the riders moved back onto the chariots!How did you do that, was it
the .cas file floats? If so, which one was it? If they were x, y, z I'd guess
the third one to move them back. I'm asking because I've never done that
so I'd like the knowledge. The riders have that "riding a horse" stance so
I'm thinking an elephant rider anim might work better for a charioteer but
that's a small point given what your screen shots are showing.
Domesticus
Re: GOAT and GOAL: A collection of modelling and animation utilities
.. errrrr .. I cheated! I moved the mount location in the DESCR_MOUNT.TXT
I remembed seeing rider-offset before, refound it, tried it .. it worked! .. but you're going to tell me we cannot use it because ..Code:type chariot horse class horse model Mount_chariot_Horse radius 2.8 x_radius 1.8 y_offset 0.7 height 2.5 mass 1.75 ;changed from 4.0 29/4/05 banner_height 0 bouyancy_offset 1.8 water_trail_effect horse_water_trail root_node_height 1.0 rider_offset 0.0, 0.38, -2.70 ; rider_offset 0.0, 0.38, 0.70
R
oOo
Rome 2 refugee ...
oOo
Retired
Re: GOAT and GOAL: A collection of modelling and animation utilities
@Rorarii
Could I suggest you use a new anim for the chariot riders? If you create a copy of an existing footman's anim EG. MTW2_Spear. And you change all the anims for their actual movements, to static or ready ones Eg, from:-
step_forward data/animations/MTW2_Spear/MTW2_Spear_Stand_A_step_forward.cas
To:-
step_forward data/animations/MTW2_Spear/MTW2_Spear_Stand_A_idle.cas
Or:-
step_forward data/animations/MTW2_Spear/MTW2_Spear_ready_idle.cas
That would stop the bowlegged appearance and stop them running on the spot when the chariot moves about. You probably wouldn't need anims like the crew requirments and some of the attack's may need altering once you have done a test in game but the idea should work.
Almost makes me wish I had a chariot model of my own to work on...
3D modeler - Animator
Re: GOAT and GOAL: A collection of modelling and animation utilities
@Eothese + rep
That is what i am working on after rorarii´s discovery.
@KE is more than clear to me , no help need it. LOL
one think i am worry is the animation for the lance it wouldn´t be better an archer, stand_to_idle.cas to almost all the animation and only use the attacking animations and die.
Retired
Re: GOAT and GOAL: A collection of modelling and animation utilities
Thanks Icedie,
To start with, to see how it works. But I think a few things like taunt, celebrate and maybe knock_back would go a long way towards keeping the action looking real.
3D modeler - Animator
Re: GOAT and GOAL: A collection of modelling and animation utilities
Ok here is the deal:
here is my descr_mount entry with the off_set rorarii has found
Until here everything work the way is suppose to but when i add this the it ctd before the battle.Code:type heavy horse class horse model Mount_Chariot_Mhorse radius 1.2 x_radius 0.3 y_offset 0.4 height 2.5 mass 3.6 ;changed from 4.0 29/4/05 banner_height 0 bouyancy_offset 1.8 water_trail_effect horse_water_trail root_node_height 1.0 rider_offset 0.0, 0.38, -2.70
I made the animation folder call: eventually rename all of the foot archer to HR
ICE_HR_bow
And the modeldb entry as well
skeleton entry:Code:1 5 Horse 13 ICE_HR_Bowman 18 MTW2_HR_Non_Shield 1 18 ICE_HR_Bow_Primary 1 18 MTW2_Sword_Primary 16 -0.090000004 0 0 -0.34999999 0.80000001 0.60000002
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
the red colored text are the one i am not sure if they are right or not, but i tried both ways and it did not work.
I read the animation manual what you made KE but i am not smart enough to figure what is the problem, i got ctd when loading battles and no specific report of cause. can any one else try to do it? may you get better luck.
Retired
Re: GOAT and GOAL: A collection of modelling and animation utilities
Icedie, you made it too complex I think.
This is what I came up with, descr_skeleton, you don't need a _primary as thats for the weapon itself.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
And my test unit, french_mounted_archers battle_models entry.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I did not rename all the .cas files, that would take hours, as long as the scale is the same the same anim type can be shared between skeletons.
Results, men that stand up and don't have any leg animation when the mounts move. They are in ready stance unless attacking or being hit...
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
More to do though, when the unit engages in combat it switches to swords and becomes seated...
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
So a new animation set must be created for the melee combat in the same way as I created the ICE_HR_Bowman.
Just remember to remove any .idx and .dat from your animations folder when you make changes to descr_skeleton or they will not show up.
#Edit
You may not have to make a full copy of the exsisting descr_skeleton entry. As long as you have the combat, death, idle, ready, taunts and celebrate anims and you do not make the new entry have a parent, it should in theory be enough.
Last edited by Eothese; October 04, 2008 at 05:47 AM.
Domesticus
Re: GOAT and GOAL: A collection of modelling and animation utilities
Glad to see you guys motoring ahead .. I've stalled on the grid.
Ok, got your new bones included KE .. but your goat is being stubborn. First picture looks fine.
Adding animations AND zeroing joints, all looks good ..
BUT .. when I try to get goat to convert to MESH (MS3D to MESH) I get this error message .. I've tried GOM's converter but I only the horses!?
plus I still have the problem of missing pieces, I've changed all the class name.. no go!
HELP!! Maybe ICedie can provide his working mesh?
R
EOthese, thanks for the help, will check out that once I get to that stage.
.
Last edited by Rorarii; October 04, 2008 at 08:10 AM.
oOo
Rome 2 refugee ...
oOo
Decanus
Re: GOAT and GOAL: A collection of modelling and animation utilities
@Rorarii (and Icedie and Eothese)
First to Rorarii, what is your file named? The converter has to figure out
if a .ms3d model is a human unit, a mount, or a siege_engine. For vanilla
stuff, it looks for siege_engine stuff in the material comments. That doesn't
happen here so it needs to decide if it is a human or a mount. For the
chariot it probably needs mount_ in the name somewhere to decide. Then
it can back convert. (I think, if not, I'll ask for the model and see what's
going on. These things happen when pushing the envelope.)
I'd like to volunteer to do some of the animation stuff but I think we need
to make sure the two models can use the same animations. Rorarii's model
with the extra bones in it looks matched once we can get it back
converted. Icedie, is it a big deal to change your model's length,
wheel base, and probably wheel diameter, somewhat if needed?
What I'd like to do is get an agreed upon extra bone model that can be
used for both models. Then I'd propose that I do the exporting of the
skeleton from the model to a copy of the fs_horse animations directory.
This just puts in the three extra bones and makes space for animation
data. What I'd like to do is work on the walk, run, etc. animations to see
if I can remove the "leaf shaking" effects of having the chariot assigned
to bone_saddle by assigning it to bone_chariot and also animating the
wheels with bone_Rwheel and bone_Lwheel. If that looks ok in Milkshape,
I zip up the animations and post them back to you guys to try out.
That still leaves some of the special horse stuff, and the question of
the dead double horse animations, but at least you can see how the
basic stuff looks in the game. This requires the descr_skeleton.txt entry
for them but that's basically just copying fs_horse and changing the
path name to point at the new animations directory.
Does that sound like an ok project to work on? You both would have
your own model, and you could maybe split the remaining animations
between yourselves. (The dead horses still gets me. Maybe just bury
one beneath the ground versus trying to get two horses to slump
realistically when you only have one skeleton to work with.)
Domesticus
Re: GOAT and GOAL: A collection of modelling and animation utilities
changing the name to "mount_<etc>" didn't work.
Here's my latest mesh i'm playing around with, maybe someone else can get it to work?
R
oOo
Rome 2 refugee ...
oOo
Decanus
Re: GOAT and GOAL: A collection of modelling and animation utilities
I'd like to play. You've given a great effort to this project, so I'd like to push
it to where it can go with our current knowledge. I'm very up and willing to do animations, or is this a sticking point? I think we don't have to redo CA's stuff for the horses, just include the bone_chariot, bone_Lwheel, and bone_Rwheel additionss. (Sorry, I do tend to vanish over the weekends.)
King Tomislav
Re: GOAT and GOAL: A collection of modelling and animation utilities
KE, is Planarize Seam Normals working only for Y-axis aligned seams? I've tried it on shield faces and I'm getting some weird results, like a few patches of darker shades along the surface.
Also, is it normal that it doesn't stick when I do Refresh Textures?
Author of the ---== Knights Templar Mod ==---
Creator of the ---== Lord Calidor's Weapon Pack 1 ==---
Member of the ---== Dominion of the Sword ==--- and ---== C.B.U.R.P ==---
Nature's Ninja
Re: GOAT and GOAL: A collection of modelling and animation utilities
well i've tried convert some vanilla units from rtw and rtw-bi, some works fine but some isn't working, for example ( unit_roman_slinger_high, unit_roman_praetorian_high) this give error :
Common sense removed due being Disruptive.
Decanus
Re: GOAT and GOAL: A collection of modelling and animation utilities
@Ataegina
I only had a few units to test on and even those had variations in
the format so this may be another variation. I'll PM you an e-mail
address. If you could send me one of the units it is failing on, I'll
take a look and see if I can get it to work and then update GOAT.
@Lord_Calidor
Unfortunately, this is a very limited operation, only meant to fix the
head and underarm seams. If a selected vertex has a small x-coordinate,
like the seam over the head, then Planarize will remove the x-components
of the normals and renormalize them to be unit vectors again, i.e. it
forces the normals to lie in the y-z plane. If a selected vertex has
a small z-coordinate, like the underarm seam, it removes the normal's
z-component and makes it lie in the x-y plane. So using it elsewhere
probably will make bad normals for those cases.
I tried making a C++ plugin so users could interact in Milkshape but what
I found was that Milkshape recalculates everything after a plug-in runs
that touches data. So the changes would be made but then instantly
wiped out.
And yes, anything that touches data, like refreshing textures, or just making
a single triangle triggers the auto-recalc of the geometry and the normals
get recalculated.
@Rorarii
Sorry, don't know where my mind was at: put a _lod0 at the end of the
name and it will back convert because it can now figure out what the
lodname should be. This won't get it in-game though because the extra
bones will conflict with the vanilla horse animations which don't have them.
(You might be able to get the game to load and see them, but the moment
you make them move will probably crash it.)
The User's Guide has more explanation but basically make a working
directory and copy all the fs_horse animations into it. Then run
the extractskeleton button and select your extra bone model. This
will produce a text file with the extension .skelexport. Then run the
exportskeleton button, select that .skelexport file, then select your
working directory with the fs_horse files in it. This will create a
subdirectory named convertedfiles and will have copies of all the fs_horse
animations in it but now with your three extra bones. No real animation
data just 0's for position and identity quaternions for rotations.
The trick now is to make a new animation family in descr_skeleton.txt.
Find the fs_horse entry for battlefield animals. The first few lines look
like:
Copy the whole entry for fs_horse. Change the type to somethingCode:type fs_horse ; locomotion_table mount scale 1.12 anim default data/animations/fs_horse/fs_horse_Default.CAS ;;basic horse locomotion anim stand_a_idle data/animations/fs_horse/fs_horse_stand_a_idle.cas -fr anim stand_a_to_walk data/animations/fs_horse/fs_horse_stand_a_to_walk.cas -fr -evt:data/animations/fs_horse/fs_horse_stand_a_to_walk.evt anim stand_a_to_run data/animations/fs_horse/fs_horse_stand_a_to_run.cas -fr -evt:data/animations/fs_horse/fs_horse_stand_a_to_run.evt
like fs_horse_chariot. Then copy the convertedfiles directory into
your animations directory and rename it to fs_horse_chariot. Then
change the paths in descr_skeleton.txt for your new entry to point
to that directory. (Don't do search and replace on fs_horse, do it
on /fs_horse/. Learned that the hard way because I messed up all
my file names.) Now if you rebuild your packs you've got extra bone
animations for your chariot. Just need to change the animation name
in the modeldb to be fs_horse_chariot instead of fs_horse.
Edit: Thanks for posting the model. I'm going to do the above procedure and start
working on the walk and run anims to see how hard it is to get rid of the
"leaf shaking" effect.
Last edited by KnightErrant; October 07, 2008 at 11:56 AM.
Retired
Re: GOAT and GOAL: A collection of modelling and animation utilities
There are anims in for Chariot Cav in the unpacked files, probably for the rider. Can't recall the whole details at the moment. (Not at my main machine). But they should be usable. I would be willing to work on this if anyone has a lod they don't mind sharing. I don't plan on using chariots for anything, i just enjoy playing around with this sort of thing when I have time...
Decanus
Re: GOAT and GOAL: A collection of modelling and animation utilities
@Rorarii
Arghh, just tried the export of the extra bone skeleton and the script failed. Haven't
tried this on an animal before, just humans. So wait on trying the above
until I can get the bugs worked out.
@Eothese
Rorarii did post a model earlier. If he doesn't mind, you could do anims with that.
Have to wait until I get the exporting corrected, of course.
Decanus
Re: GOAT and GOAL: A collection of modelling and animation utilities
@Rorarii and Eothese
Found the problem. Script is fine I just had a leftover camelasahorse
.cas file from back when Bwian and I were messing with this and that's
what crashed the script. Deleted that file and the export ran fine.
Retired
Re: GOAT and GOAL: A collection of modelling and animation utilities
KnightErrant,
Ah yes I found it, an MS3D file.
No problem, although I would prefer to finnish the wardog first.
So no pressure on yourself!
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