The Koran's vs The Old Testament (Tanakh) stories

[IronBlood]

I was just pondering this yesterday.

In the holy book of Islam, the Quran, there are differences/additions/build ons of bibicial stories of the Old Testament. Some Few examples (I hope I get them correct) are Abraham offering Ishmael instead of Isaac, naming vs teaching the names of the animals in the creation story, etc. Why is there such differences?

Did Mohammad (or the collectors of the Quran) have a bibicial source taken from the Jews of Mecca and Medina that the Jews of Israel did not know of (or include)? Also could it be the "build-ons" are of pre-Quranic oral tradition origin? Or are they different interpretions of the same source? Or simply just fabrications of Islam to separate it's self from Judaism?

Muslims and Theologians of TWC I seek your enlightenment

[The Cobra]

Read the Quran.

[BNS]

It's Mohammed's take on judaism (based on the pre-Islamic jewish and christian traditions in Arabia) and attempt to legitimize himself, that's my take.

[AngryTitusPullo]

Jews (and Christians) accepted (I think) the OT (and NT) are written collections base on oral stories that has been compiled through generations. They are inspired by God.

Muslims believed that Qur'an are direct revelation from God to Muhammad, written by his companions (during his lifetime as Muhammad is believed to be illiterate) and compiled after his death.

So, the OT from God has gone through multiple level of sources (rewrites/retold/updated) before reaching the end user, while Qur'an is directly from the source through Muhammad to the end users.

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

I was just pondering this yesterday.

In the holy book of Islam, the Quran, there are differences/additions/build ons of bibicial stories of the Old Testament. Some Few examples (I hope I get them correct) are Abraham offering Ishmael instead of Isaac, naming vs teaching the names of the animals in the creation story, etc. Why is there such differences?

The Quran has the stories of all the major prophets, from Adam to Noah, Abraham, Solomon, Joseph and Jesus (peace be upon them all).

As you point out, there are differences in the narrations. There are, however, no major add-ons and build-ons as far as I know. In the Old Testament, it is claimed in many different verses that the prophets of God had concubines, committed mass murder, engaged in adultery, among other things. If you read the same stores in the Quran, you'll see that those parts have been left out. Muslims believe that since the Torah is not in its original form, additions have been made that are not accurate.

In Islam, God revealed the Zabur (Psalms) to Dawud (David). Dawud also has significance as the one who defeated Goliath. It is worth to note that the story of King David with Uriah according to the Islamic tradition is different, thus the acts attributed to King David in the Old Testament like sending Uriah to be killed for the purpose of marrying his wife is denied in Islam.

source:wiki

A convert to Islam, Bilal Phillips observs:

The stories of the Prophets have universal appeal, as they were chosen by God, as examples for humankind. However, in the Bible, especially in the Old Testament, the lives of the prophets were gravely distorted. Lies were told about them to such an extent that they were no longer examples of righteousness but examples of corruption!

For example, Prophet Lot is portrayed as having become drunk with his daughters and committing incest with them! Prophet David is portrayed as lusting after a man’s wife, committing adultery with her and sending her husband off to the front lines of the battle to be killed! As for Prophet Solomon, he is portrayed as worshipping idols in his old age!!!

Also, keeping in mind concept of being close to God, At the end of his life, according to Islamic tradition, Musa chose to die to be closer to God instead of taking an offer that would have extended his life.

I'll post the comparison and contrast of Jesus (as)'s account a bit later. The differences there are of the most importance.

[Chimera1277]

The Quran has the stories of all the major prophets, from Adam to Noah, Abraham, Solomon, Joseph and Jesus (peace be upon them all).

As you point out, there are differences in the narrations. There are, however, no major add-ons and build-ons as far as I know. In the Old Testament, it is claimed in many different verses that the prophets of God had concubines, committed mass murder, engaged in adultery, among other things. If you read the same stores in the Quran, you'll see that those parts have been left out. Muslims believe that since the Torah is not in its original form, additions have been made that are not accurate.


source:wiki

A convert to Islam, Bilal Phillips observs:



Also, keeping in mind concept of being close to God, At the end of his life, according to Islamic tradition, Musa chose to die to be closer to God instead of taking an offer that would have extended his life.

I'll post the comparison and contrast of Jesus (as)'s account a bit later. The differences there are of the most importance.

I'll admit the Old and New Testament prophets and personage has warts and all, but that's the point, these guys were great sinners their sins humongous, but as one can read God uses the worst of these guys to advance his cause, Moses had a anger management problem, David was an adulterer and a murder and Saul/Paul was a religious persecutor, but read what happened Moses would lead the Israelites to freedom, David was promised that his house would reign forever thru Jesus and Paul became the greatest missionary of his time. the Bible doesn't hide the ugliness they have it shows that they are not some superhuman beings but are actually down-to-earth guys that we can relate to. this is actually the first time i knew that the holy persons in the Koran were spotless, but when you think hard about it the Bible is being honest about this people, one of the reasons of it's authenticity because it tells the truth about this guys. here's a saying im leaving you guys to think about, wolf in a sheep's clothing. think very hard about it.

[The Cobra]

I'll admit the Old and New Testament prophets and personage has warts and all, but that's the point, these guys were great sinners their sins humongous, but as one can read God uses the worst of these guys to advance his cause, Moses had a anger management problem, David was an adulterer and a murder and Saul/Paul was a religious persecutor, but read what happened Moses would lead the Israelites to freedom, David was promised that his house would reign forever thru Jesus and Paul became the greatest missionary of his time. the Bible doesn't hide the ugliness they have it shows that they are not some superhuman beings but are actually down-to-earth guys that we can relate to. this is actually the first time i knew that the holy persons in the Koran were spotless, but when you think hard about it the Bible is being honest about this people, one of the reasons of it's authenticity because it tells the truth about this guys. here's a saying im leaving you guys to think about, wolf in a sheep's clothing. think very hard about it.

Where is it said in the Quran that prophets were flawless ?

[AngryTitusPullo]

I'll admit the Old and New Testament prophets and personage has warts and all, but that's the point, these guys were great sinners their sins humongous, but as one can read God uses the worst of these guys to advance his cause, Moses had a anger management problem, David was an adulterer and a murder and Saul/Paul was a religious persecutor, but read what happened Moses would lead the Israelites to freedom, David was promised that his house would reign forever thru Jesus and Paul became the greatest missionary of his time. the Bible doesn't hide the ugliness they have it shows that they are not some superhuman beings but are actually down-to-earth guys that we can relate to. this is actually the first time i knew that the holy persons in the Koran were spotless, but when you think hard about it the Bible is being honest about this people, one of the reasons of it's authenticity because it tells the truth about this guys. here's a saying im leaving you guys to think about, wolf in a sheep's clothing. think very hard about it.

The thing is these 'defects' were used as an excuse for the 'followers' to act not in the way of God. I mean, when you accept that even prophets do this then what else if just mere 'mortals' like us.

This actually against the purpose of why the prophets were sent to us, at least from an Islamic point of view, which is for guidance.

It's either about the bible being 'honest' or it added lies.

We believe that they are lies especially regarding the 'acts' of prophets.

If you think that they're honest then so be it.

Follow their 'honest' way..

[BNS]

So in Islam the stories of the prophets are said to be derived completely from the revelations of god to Mohammad. Basically god chose to clean the slate that is the old testement and tell the stories himself. Right?

Is it true that Islam paints the prophets as having perfect lives?

[AngryTitusPullo]

Is it true that Islam paints the prophets as having perfect lives?

Perfect as in sinless, yes. But prophets do make mistakes, though their mistakes are worldly and those not amounting to sin.

For example from the story of Jonah (Prophet Yunus a.s.) where his mistakes are giving up on his people where he's actually suppose to lead the correct way. When his people rejected him, he left them altogether.

That's a mistake, but not a sin.

Even Muhammad made mistakes.

Only God is perfect.

[MehemtAli_Pasha]

Perfect as in sinless, yes. But prophets do make mistakes, though their mistakes are worldly and those not amounting to sin.

For example from the story of Jonah (Prophet Yunus a.s.) where his mistakes are giving up on his people where he's actually suppose to lead the correct way. When his people rejected him, he left them altogether.

That's a mistake, but not a sin.

Even Muhammad made mistakes.

Only God is perfect.

very good post man...it's true, only God is sinless. if u want i can provide u the Surah in which it states so.

[Каие]

In the holy book of Islam, the Quran, there are differences/additions/build ons of bibicial stories of the Old Testament. Some Few examples (I hope I get them correct) are Abraham offering Ishmael instead of Isaac, naming vs teaching the names of the animals in the creation story, etc. Why is there such differences?

In the Quran its not clear who is sacrificed, but Scholars deduced, oh those wonderful scholars, that it was Ishmael the father of the Arabs how convenient. It could have been Isaac.

I find the Ishmael story interesting in the bible/Torah, it's my favourite.
Wasn't Ishmael born first to his maid, then God later gave him another son Isaac then they banished Ishmael and his mum, before promising to give Ishmael s descendants some kind of glory?

The angel of the Lord told her to return, adding that God would increase her descendants through a son whose name would be Ishmael. The angel told Hagar that Ishmael would become "a wild donkey of a man" and would be in constant struggle with others.[3] So Hagar returned to Abraham's house, and had a son whom she named Ishmael.[3] Abraham was 86 years old when Ishmael was born.[7] Abraham, obeying God's commandment, circumcised Ishmael when he was thirteen.[8] The next year, Abraham's wife Sarah became pregnant with his second son, Isaac.[3] One day Sarah was angered by seeing Ishmael mocking or playing with Isaac (the Hebrew word is ambiguous[9]),[2] and she asked Abraham to expel him and his mother, saying: "Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac."[3][10] Ishmael was very dear to Abraham. He initially refused to do as Sarah asked.[2] He finally gave in to his wife's request when God told him that He would take care of Ishmael, since he was a descendant of Abraham.[8][11] Abraham provided Hagar and her child with bread and a bottle of water and sent her into the desert of Paran.[8][12] Hagar, with her son, wandered in the wilderness and ran out of water. When they were reduced to great distress, an angel appeared and showed Hagar a spring of water saying "What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid; God has heard the boy crying as he lies there. Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation."

[IronBlood]

Thanks for all the replies so far everyone

So, If I am correct, in The Koran there are no major changes to the stories that would them (Quran and OT versions) significantly different from each other. The Quran was focuses more on the spiritual message instead of the "factual message" of the bibicial stories. Also it protrays as the prophets as virtually sinless.

[AngryTitusPullo]

So, If I am correct, in The Koran there are no major changes to the stories that would them (Quran and OT versions) significantly different from each other.

The changes are mainly to 'correct' the distortion that were done by previous ummah which are the Jews to their Taurat (parts of the OT attributed to Moses) and the Nasrani (Christians) to their Injil (NT).

The Quran was focuses more on the spiritual message instead of the "factual message" of the bibicial stories.

The Meccan surah were mostly spiritual while the Medinan surahs were mostly regarding worldly affairs.

The Meccan surahs are how we deal with God personally while the Medinan are those how we're dealing with fellow human beings.

Also it protrays as the prophets as virtually sinless.

Mostly as a guidance to us, of what to do and of what not to do.

[Gauvin]

The change of Isaac to Ishmael is a huge difference.

The story of Jesus is drastically different, saying that he was never crucified but someone else was crucified in his stead, and Jesus' words in the Qur'an only serve to put Christians down.

Mary, mother of Jesus, is referred to as the sister of Aaron in the Qur'an, which is an anachronism, since Maryam was the sister of Aaron, and Moses, and they existed 1000 or more years before Mary, mother of Jesus. Muhammad mistook Maryam for Mary, he thought they were the same person.

Also, the fall of the Devil was because of his refusal to bow to Adam, which is not a Biblical story, but a Christian gnostic story. The Christians of Arabia were mostly gnostics, and not orthodox, or catholic.

[AngryTitusPullo]

Muhammad mistook Maryam for Mary, he thought they were the same person, this is why Mary is called Maryam, in Islam.

Mary is called Maryam, in Arabic.

Mary is the Anglicize name of whatever the original Hebrew name of the mother of Jesus.

[Gauvin]

Mary is called Maryam, in Arabic.

Mary is the Anglicize name of whatever the original Hebrew name of the mother of Jesus.

Mary was not the sister of Aaron. That was my main point. Yes, Maryam is Hebrew, corrected. Maryam is a name in English, as well, I think Mary is used to distinguis between Mary and Maryam, obviously for a good reason, since that fact even confused Muhammad.

[MehemtAli_Pasha]

The change of Isaac to Ishmael is a huge difference.

The story of Jesus is drastically different, saying that he was never crucified but someone else was crucified in his stead, and Jesus' words in the Qur'an only serve to put Christians down.

Mary, mother of Jesus, is referred to as the sister of Aaron in the Qur'an, which is an anachronism, since Maryam was the sister of Aaron, and they existed 500 or more years before Mary, mother of Jesus. Muhammad mistook Maryam for Mary, he thought they were the same person.

Also, the fall of the Devil was because of his refusal to bow to Adam, which is not a Biblical story, but a Christian gnostic story. The Christians of Arabia were mostly gnostics, and not orthodox, or catholics.

there is no such name as Mary in Hebrew or Arabic or Aramaic. Myriam is the right name. so as Jesus. his name is not Jesus in Hebrew or Arabic or Aramaic. nor Moses, nor many others. if u want their exact name they used to call them with more than 2000 years ago, i can give it to you.

[Gauvin]

there is no such name as Mary in Hebrew or Arabic or Aramaic. Myriam is the right name. so as Jesus. his name is not Jesus in Hebrew or Arabic or Aramaic. nor Moses, nor many others. if u want their exact name they used to call them with more than 2000 years ago, i can give it to you.

You're focusing on the wrong part of the argument, i'll concede that Maryam is Mary's Hebrew name. That's not the point, the point is, because her name was the same as Maryam, Aaron's sister, Muhammad confused them for the same person, this is why the Qur'an refers to Mary, mother of Jesus, as sister of Aaron.

[AngryTitusPullo]

You're focusing on the wrong part of the argument, i'll concede that Maryam is Mary's Hebrew name. That's not the point, the point is, because her name was the same as Maryam, Aaron's sister, Muhammad confused them for the same person, this is why the Qur'an refers to Mary, mother of Jesus, as sister of Aaron.

So there can't be 2 Mary's and 2 Aaron's ? :hmmm: Which Aaron are you referring to ? Moses's Aaron ? Or there's a bloke also name Aaron in the family of John (Yahya a.s.) ?