Diplomatic Battles

[Amaranth]

(Probably Harder Than Most Field Battles)

In campaigns, How do you usually use your diplomatic skills against your opponents ?

I wonder this because right now I'm in a terrible situation, I'm surrounded by an United Enemy. And some of them are the Strongest Factions in the game.

Note that this is a XGM Campaign (I use Forced Diplomacy with some fair rules and completely like "it should be" you know normally it's a bit bugged) but feel free to share your experiences from vanilla or any other modes.

By the way I'd like to share this Screenshot with you:



Now here is how I got there: I started the campaign and immediately found myself in a fierce war with Macedon. Hopefully I could push them to the north and finally got them cornered in their last settlement and where I could destroy them I simply forced them to be my protectorate (to add some flavour to the game.) and ended Macedon threat once and for all.

Then soon after that Independent Greeks started their attacks, I gathered my army and push them off from Greece and followed them to Aegean shores and then took the Rhodes, Halicarnasus and Ephesus. (Yummy Wonders!)

I allied myself with Rome, Gauls Independent and Eastern Kingdoms.

War broke out again, this time with Thrace, I striked their capital, and took it hoping that would prevent them creating stronger armies, but I was wrong..

A fierce battle happened, they came with a full strength army, result was Heroic. They came just after that in same turn, and we celebrated another Heroic Victory. They didn't stop attacking for over 10 turns, I could hardly keep that city. Then with a high amount of denarii, we signed a ceasefire. But my casualties were great, I lost both men and considerable amount of denarii to keep them retrained.

It wasn't over, Seleucids started to attack unceasingly and iwith full-flag armies. I tried to push them back to Asia, but I got myself stuck in Ancyra. (whenever I defeated one army, another came before I could Retrain my fallen units..)

By this time my ships reached Syracuse shores and secured the city from Independent Greeks.

And right then the "expected" happened..

Rome betrayed me and attacked the town north of Syracuse, Messana.

I send reinforcements immediately but Seleucids were really pushing me, and my army upkeep was really high, I had to either gather another army to support my forces in Ancyra or pull back an already existing one, I desperately made a decision and pulled back my Greatest Commander (F.Leader) from Anatolia to Italia shores to prevent attacks of Romans (Even succeeded capturing a defenceless Roman City). I left my 2nd big army in Ancyra and reinforced it with a Fort full of Galatian Mercs.

And now, Rome is unleashed upon me like rapid dogs, and Seleucids are even fiercer than they. I can't distract them cause they're allied with everyone else nearby them! It's crazy.. I am completely surrounded by this United Enemy Factions and there's nothing I can do but to stand and hope that they'll wage war between themselves in the coming turns..(thought I doubt it) Cause If they keep standing as allies, I'm double doomed.

Anyway..

I'd like to hear your suggestions, or your experiences in events like this.

[King_StuvartiniusIII]

Sounds like a good game!

[Amaranth]

They're pwning my sorry butt, for the first time in this game I had to give a land to enemy and rereat..

Actually it's better be hard than boring, yet I could really use some advice.

[Legio]

Bribe Indie Greeks! And focus on the Romans!
Did you kill Macedon? Kill them! Send two stacks to Italy and one to Macedonn's last settlement. You can also bribe Macedonian captains and they will join your faction. Unless you want to fight...then kill Rome with all you got!

[Lord de Lyonesse]

They're pwning my sorry butt.

Sounds nasty. If i was you i would send a general with a large sizeable army and run away to a island or a nearby rebel settlement and then organise a reconquisa

[Draugdur]

Only leave Sicily unprotected if you're absolutely sure you can take Italy and you don't care about the Romans exterminating the populace. DON'T abandon Sicily if there's good barracks!!!!

Well, if he presses Romans with his sicilian army, they're hardly going to be able to attack Sicily back. And if this army gets pushed back, it'd still be in Sicily. I was thinking more of the Carthaginian danger, but AI seldom does naval invasion, so in my opinion, it's not much of a risk.

Personally I don't see the point in taking cities until you can keep them, unless exterminating them completely destroys enemy income...

That too, unless he's playing on very hard. And since Armenia doesn't have as many teritories as Seleucids, losing a few might actually hurt their economy quite badly. But I was thinking more along the lines of disrupting military infrastructure - what're loads of cash good for, if peasants are all you can recruit? And it takes...what, 3 or 4 turns to build even level 1 barracks/stables? So it'd be about 10 turns to rebuild to level 3 to be able to produce decent troops. That's just enough time to deal with Romans and get rid of one front.
And then there's the cash injection achieved through raiding cities. 15k on average, quite a nice sum.

@Amaranth: Good luck!

[King_StuvartiniusIII]

Fortify all choke points the Seleucids might attack via and then focus on Rome, once you finish there move back to Anatolia and try to push back the Seleucids, use 3-4 stacks though so you can be constantly attacking!

[Amaranth]

Maybe these new photos can help you to see my current situation:


This is how my current map looks like. I am at battle with Seleucids, Rome, Thrace and Carthage. Armenia and Egypt are allied with them also. Which means they may attack me at any time.


This is how near Rome to my faction. And that army you see there is my one of two strongest army leaded by my Heir. The other one is in Syracuse with F.leader.


This is middle turkey now, Ancyra (which I had to give to Seleucids exchange of a ceasefire for a few turns) is rebelled (just in time, rebels took control after I retreated from the city) They are now dealing with it and also declared war on me again, which means after they take the city they'll be on me again. And Armenians are not look so friendly too ..

Bribe Indie Greeks! And focus on the Romans!
Did you kill Macedon? Kill them! Send two stacks to Italy and one to Macedonn's last settlement. You can also bribe Macedonian captains and they will join your faction. Unless you want to fight...then kill Rome with all you got!

Macedons are stuck in their last coast town, and under my protectorate. They are no longer a threat, in fact they are a source of tax now. Just Thracians are attacking them sometimes I have to defend them time to time.

[King_StuvartiniusIII]

Take North Illyria and put a fort on the choke point between Italy and the balkans. Fortify all bridges along the Danube. Take that army out of Larissa and fight the Seleucids in Ancyra and take their settlements up to Antioch, where you can retrain etc. Antioch is also fairly easy to defend. From Sicily attack South Italy and work your way up until you reach that fort I've told you to build. If, at any point, you get a ceasefire with the Selecids try to ally with all of their allies (especially Egypt and Armenia), hopefully, then, when you go back to war some of their alliances will be broken. Also try to get an alliance with Parthia.

If the Armenians do declare war I suggest leaving turkey, but taking all troops and destroying all buildings on the way.

[Amaranth]

You know what's bothering me: The influence of Seleucids on the other factions. Here:


For a brief of moment I had a peace with Rome and other empires, I thought at least few of them could stay and fight by my side.

But Seleucids attacked me and that's the result. They all take their side immediately.

Take North Illyria and put a fort on the choke point between Italy and the balkans. Fortify all bridges along the Danube. Take that army out of Larissa and fight the Seleucids in Ancyra and take their settlements up to Antioch, where you can retrain etc. Antioch is also fairly easy to defend. From Sicily attack South Italy and work your way up until you reach that fort I've told you to build. If, at any point, you get a ceasefire with the Selecids try to ally with all of their allies (especially Egypt and Armenia), hopefully, then, when you go back to war some of their alliances will be broken. Also try to get an alliance with Parthia.

If the Armenians do declare war I suggest leaving turkey, but taking all troops and destroying all buildings on the way.

But that's not a bad idea I think I can try that. With the Armenians, Romans and Seleucids are pushing I think I can try it. From now on, It's gonna be all or nothing ! I'm gonna strike with the best of me, and strike hard. We'll see who will prevail in the end of campaign..

[FreshDunks101]

All or nothing! Kill Rome first though, they ae a pain!

[morteduzionism]

But Seleucids attacked me and that's the result. They all take their side immediately.

That could've been your solution right there. You know it works in reverse too, right? When you had all those alliances if you would've attacked Seleucia then all the factions would've broken their alliances with Seleucia (I've only heard of one instance when it doesn't happen like that)...

Just so I'm being clear: if/when you have alliances with common members (i.e. you're allied with Rome & Seleucia) and one member attacks another 99.99% of the time the other members will side with the faction doing the attacking!

I used to use this as a cheat against Carthage. I had an alliance with Makedonia & Carthage but Carthage kept trying to be sneaky so I'd attack them EVERY time they came near one of my territories.

EVERY time Makedonia would end their alliance with Carthage. I then would demand gold in return for renewing the alliance/trade rights with Carthage...EVERY time they'd pay.

A few turns later I'd see a msg. saying that Carthage/Makedonia have established an alliance...a turn or two later some Carthaginian army would be snooping around one of my cities...wash/rinse/repeat...

I've read that the AI is reluctant to attack factions with multiple alliances... ...just something I read

[Flambard]

You seem to have a pretty srtong source of income. Even though you are on 6D. What are you making per turn?

As King said fortify the danube ASAP, then you have a 2 front war, split your cities straight down the middle into an east and west empire, the east should focus on Rome whilst the west should focus on Turkey and the Seleucids. Thrace should be kept at bay on the other side of the danube and therefore not a problem. Watch out for macedon attacking, i suggest you keep a spy and assassin nearby to Amphipolis to keep tabs on them and sabotage if neccessary.

[Amaranth]

You seem to have a pretty srtong source of income. Even though you are on 6D. What are you making per turn?

As King said fortify the danube ASAP, then you have a 2 front war, split your cities straight down the middle into an east and west empire, the east should focus on Rome whilst the west should focus on Turkey and the Seleucids. Thrace should be kept at bay on the other side of the danube and therefore not a problem. Watch out for macedon attacking, i suggest you keep a spy and assassin nearby to Amphipolis to keep tabs on them and sabotage if neccessary.

I have 3 main army which needs a lot of upkeep, most of my income goes directly to upkeep. I have an army in Syracuse to hold Romans and mostly Carthagians at bay. Another one (Strongest one) in Macedonia to keep Romans coming any closer than they already are, and the 3d one (split into two cities) is in mid Turkey near Ancyra to hold the Seleucids.

Now; Thrace has been finally eliminated. It took me a while to transport an army from Sicily to attack them 2 turns to destroy them by attacking with all my armed forces in Greece, Macedonia and Thrace. They're gone, that's a relief but now I am even closer to Romans than before ..

I am making an attempt to take Sardinia and Corsica which are Carthagian Cities, They're almost defenseless right now and I have a considerable amount of extra men in Sicily which can be send to capture them. Those two will have a good trade source imo.


And about Seleucids.. It's still a bit complicated. I've gathered my armies from Aegean and merged them, result was an army at full strength leaded by a 9 star general, and another medium sized army leaded by a 16 year old 3 star newbie. (which will be used as reinforcements). I'm now planning to assault Ancyra (again) and after it's capture, station my reinforment army inside and keep pressing forward with the main one. And according to my intelligence (I use massieve amount of spies and assasins in campaigns) in Antioch, Seleucid Capital is defenseless. Though there are armies ready to strike nearby Jerusalem and through Arabia. If I can take Antioch before they can react, I can hold that city as a Gate way to Asia.

There's a major possible problem which can destroy my plans though.. Armenia.
They're now neutral, though if they attack, I can't stay in Turkey more than 3 turns. They have no enemies atm so their armies are strong, and (worst ) idle. Sooner or later I'll have to attack them too to prevent Seleucids to enter Turkey, and holding them in the East.

[King_StuvartiniusIII]

I have 3 main army which needs a lot of upkeep, most of my income goes directly to upkeep. I have an army in Syracuse to hold Romans and mostly Carthagians at bay. Another one (Strongest one) in Macedonia to keep Romans coming any closer than they already are, and the 3d one (split into two cities) is in mid Turkey near Ancyra to hold the Seleucids.

Use your Syracuse army to pincer Rome, and then, once Rome is no longer a threat, take Carthage. Use the Macedonian army to pincer Rome (no point sitting there looking pretty) and use your Turkish army as you are doing until you can afford another army, then start attacking.

Now; Thrace has been finally eliminated. It took me a while to transport an army from Sicily to attack them 2 turns to destroy them by attacking with all my armed forces in Greece, Macedonia and Thrace. They're gone, that's a relief but now I am even closer to Romans than before ..

ATTACK THE ROMANS!!!!!

I am making an attempt to take Sardinia and Corsica which are Carthagian Cities, They're almost defenseless right now and I have a considerable amount of extra men in Sicily which can be send to capture them. Those two will have a good trade source imo.

This IS a good idea, but don't leave Sicily unguarded, think of the Romans!

And about Seleucids.. It's still a bit complicated. I've gathered my armies from Aegean and merged them, result was an army at full strength leaded by a 9 star general, and another medium sized army leaded by a 16 year old 3 star newbie. (which will be used as reinforcements). I'm now planning to assault Ancyra (again) and after it's capture, station my reinforment army inside and keep pressing forward with the main one. And according to my intelligence (I use massieve amount of spies and assasins in campaigns) in Antioch, Seleucid Capital is defenseless. Though there are armies ready to strike nearby Jerusalem and through Arabia. If I can take Antioch before they can react, I can hold that city as a Gate way to Asia.

Use your newbie too, if he's only new and has 3 stars he could become super-mega-awesome very quickly! I recommend leapfrogging, using both armies to take cities. That way you can take a lot of settlements in very little time!

There's a major possible problem which can destroy my plans though.. Armenia.
They're now neutral, though if they attack, I can't stay in Turkey more than 3 turns. They have no enemies atm so their armies are strong, and (worst ) idle. Sooner or later I'll have to attack them too to prevent Seleucids to enter Turkey, and holding them in the East.

Do you have enough money to bribe them? Try that. If you don't have that kind of money assassinate everyone and sabotage everything!!!

P.S. Thanks for the rep! I hope this helps too! Send some screenies next time!

[Draugdur]

And about Seleucids.. It's still a bit complicated. I've gathered my armies from Aegean and merged them, result was an army at full strength leaded by a 9 star general, and another medium sized army leaded by a 16 year old 3 star newbie. (which will be used as reinforcements). I'm now planning to assault Ancyra (again) and after it's capture, station my reinforment army inside and keep pressing forward with the main one. And according to my intelligence (I use massieve amount of spies and assasins in campaigns) in Antioch, Seleucid Capital is defenseless. Though there are armies ready to strike nearby Jerusalem and through Arabia. If I can take Antioch before they can react, I can hold that city as a Gate way to Asia.

I think this might not be such a good idea. The Seleucids have a massive teritory in Asia, there's no way you'll be able to take even a part of it with Romans on your back. And with every part of Seleucid land you take, the farther you are from your core cities, and you'd also leave a huge unprotected flank for Armenians. I'd recomend to try and force a stalemate with Seleucids: do attack Antioch (and any other unprotected large cities in the vicinity), but don't try to hold them - use scorched earth strategy instead, i.e. exterminate population and destroy any building you can, except perhaps economical ones - with that large teritory, it's doubtful to have any impact on Seleucid economy, and it'll save you some cash if you eventually take those cities. But definitely DO destroy any military buildings, that way Seleucids will have a longer way from the cities in which they can recruit army to the front, and this will give you more time to react.

Once done, focus your strenght on Romans. It would be especially good if you could attack their core cities (Rome and surroundings) by attacking via the Adriatic sea, AI tends to mass armies on the fronts and neglects defending the centre. Support that attack with sicilian army; I'd even think about leaving Sicily unprotected for a while; once you hold entire Italy, it shouldn't be too difficult to retake it.

And Armenia...can you bribe Sarmatians to attack them? Also, you can use the money you rob from Seleucids to bribe Armenian army. And if that also fails, then launch a suicidal scorched-earth mission: wait for Armenians to press you in Asia Minor (thus, hopefully, reducing their defenses of their cities in Caucasian region), then, gather a cheap army made of light infantry, archers, javelinmen...maybe some light cav too. Send these, together with a general you can live without (you'll need him to build forts and recruit eventual mercs), via the Black Sea, and land them somewhere near Trapezunt. Then start moving east, burning cities (exterminate + destroy all buildings). Armenian mountains are filled with narrow paths, use this to slow any enemy reinforcements (from east or west) by building forts. Leave a unit or two in any city you take to prevent Armenians from retaking it easily in one turn. Also, try to take as many cities as possible in one turn, using spies. Avoid conflict with any Armenian armies stronger than half-stack.
Of course, this works only if they leave the hinterland unprotected (3-5 units per city, not more). If they don't...well, then, forget I've said anything

[King_StuvartiniusIII]

Once done, focus your strenght on Romans. It would be especially good if you could attack their core cities (Rome and surroundings) by attacking via the Adriatic sea, AI tends to mass armies on the fronts and neglects defending the centre. Support that attack with sicilian army; I'd even think about leaving Sicily unprotected for a while; once you hold entire Italy, it shouldn't be too difficult to retake it.

Only leave Sicily unprotected if you're absolutely sure you can take Italy and you don't care about the Romans exterminating the populace. DON'T abandon Sicily if there's good barracks!!!!

And Armenia...can you bribe Sarmatians to attack them? Also, you can use the money you rob from Seleucids to bribe Armenian army. And if that also fails, then launch a suicidal scorched-earth mission: wait for Armenians to press you in Asia Minor (thus, hopefully, reducing their defenses of their cities in Caucasian region), then, gather a cheap army made of light infantry, archers, javelinmen...maybe some light cav too. Send these, together with a general you can live without (you'll need him to build forts and recruit eventual mercs), via the Black Sea, and land them somewhere near Trapezunt. Then start moving east, burning cities (exterminate + destroy all buildings). Armenian mountains are filled with narrow paths, use this to slow any enemy reinforcements (from east or west) by building forts. Leave a unit or two in any city you take to prevent Armenians from retaking it easily in one turn. Also, try to take as many cities as possible in one turn, using spies. Avoid conflict with any Armenian armies stronger than half-stack.
Of course, this works only if they leave the hinterland unprotected (3-5 units per city, not more). If they don't...well, then, forget I've said anything

Personally I don't see the point in taking cities until you can keep them, unless exterminating them completely destroys enemy income... but in that case you might as well hold on to them anyway!

[Amaranth]

Allright then Thank You for all your advices.

Now, I'm gonna strike Rome with my Syracusen and Macedonian Armies. Whice are the best ones. I will not go further in Seleucid territory as it's only making me more fragile for Armenians. I can't take another strong enemy atm, so I'll keep defending against Seleucid while keep pressing hard on Romans. If everything goes according to the plan, I'll be allright in about 10 turns. If not however I might be have to retreat from Aegean shores and standing back from Seleuicids until I get rid of Romans.

I'll be posting soon with some screenies

[King_StuvartiniusIII]

Allright then Thank You for all your advices.

Now, I'm gonna strike Rome with my Syracusen and Macedonian Armies. Whice are the best ones. I will not go further in Seleucid territory as it's only making me more fragile for Armenians. I can't take another strong enemy atm, so I'll keep defending against Seleucid while keep pressing hard on Romans. If everything goes according to the plan, I'll be allright in about 10 turns. If not however I might be have to retreat from Aegean shores and standing back from Seleuicids until I get rid of Romans.

I'll be posting soon with some screenies

Hopefully taking Italy will help your income so you can afford more armies and eventually take on the Seleucids and Armenians!

Good look! I'm eagerly awaiting those screenies!

[Amaranth]

Uh..

I asked my brother to format my pc and back up rome save files, but appearently he only took the vanilla files not the xgm saves that my campaign was saved. And I felt terrible when I realized this and that remind me of this this truth:
"If you wanna do something right, do it yourself."

Yeah, sucks to be me.. Now I just started a new campaign as Romans, I'll continiue to post as this one, I'm sorry for this tiny tragedy, I messed up the future of a great empire etc.

Somebody kill me if make the same mistake again. (Call me silly if you like ^^ )


Peace.