"The only way you can get to heaven is through jesus" hmmmm

[Pfundner]

According to a pastor i heard the other day, christians say the only way you can get to heaven is to believe in jesus, and "let him into your life"... but to me this doesnt sound like something a loving god would say.

There are plenty of people in the world who have probably never hear of jesus, let alone heard enough about him to believe that he is their saviour. I highly doubt that some rice farmer in the remote regions of china, or a kid making footballs in india would know much about this jesus fellow. And what about people who are simply brought up believing a different religion? are all these people doomed to go to hell, simply because of where they were born, or what their parents and their society told them was right?

Any christians have an explanation for me? :hmmm:

[finsternis]

According to a pastor i heard the other day, christians say the only way you can get to heaven is to believe in jesus, and "let him into your life"... but to me this doesnt sound like something a loving god would say.

There are plenty of people in the world who have probably never hear of jesus, let alone heard enough about him to believe that he is their saviour. I highly doubt that some rice farmer in the remote regions of china, or a kid making footballs in india would know much about this jesus fellow. And what about people who are simply brought up believing a different religion? are all these people doomed to go to hell, simply because of where they were born, or what their parents and their society told them was right?

Any christians have an explanation for me? :hmmm:

'

lol. I have asked this before. Expect no answers or expect answers from the fundies (who do not care about people) saying "too bad for them, yes they are going to hell".

[Giorgos]

You already have given yourself the answer, so why bother asking in the first place?

[Chaigidel]

the mistake comes from " there is no way to the father save through me"

remember jesus also said I am the Word made Flesh--- what was the word?

some say Knowledge, some say Love--- but either way all jesus meant was none come to the father save through ( love or knowledge)

again the mistake is made with christians because they think it is literal, when jesus offered absolute salvation to all people and all places--- only you can come to god through jesus the word made flesh -- you must choose to love, you must choose to know.

[Zenith Darksea]

Any christians have an explanation for me?

Yes, actually. When Fr Gregory Hallam, an Orthodox priest in Britain, was asked about whether someone who had not heard of Christ could be saved, he replied:

"Of course. God will save whom he wills in accordance with that person’s understanding and life."

Christ is the only way to salvation, but not just in the sense that we should believe in him. Rather, Christ is the way to salvation by virtue of what he achieved through his resurrection (the destruction of death). So, if you are aware of Christ and have been properly educated about him, then yes, you should believe in him. Any conscious rejection will not lead to salvation. However, if you haven't heard of Christ, and if Christ decides to save you (in accordance with your understanding and life), then you will be saved.

However, it isn't for us mortals to say the will of God beyond what he has told us.

[Ragabash]

However, if you haven't heard of Christ, and if Christ decides to save you (in accordance with your understanding and life), then you will be saved.

Then what is the point in missionary work, if it doesn't matter in the end?

The bible is quite clear on this, either you believe in christ or you are damned for eternity. That is why missionary work is so important to most christians.

[John I Tzimisces]

Then what is the point in missionary work, if it doesn't matter in the end?

The bible is quite clear on this, either you believe in christ or you are damned for eternity. That is why missionary work is so important to most christians.

Because, obviously, one who would know the teachings of Christ would have a better understanding of how to be "qualified" for salvation.

Besides, you say that like Proselytism is something all churches do actively...

[Ragabash]

Because, obviously, one who would know the teachings of Christ would have a better understanding of how to be "qualified" for salvation.

I wonder if God has some sort of point system how to get to heaven. 10 points from being a christian, - 5 from atheism etc.

Is christian person any more valuable to God than those who do not worship Jesus? And what are qualifications for salvation; is it to live a good life? That is teached in almost all religions around the world with only slight cultural differences, or is it to believe in Jesus; that christians get preferance over other good people or non-christians are doomed to damnation outright.

According to the bible; one and the most important qualification is to believe in Jesus, fail that and you are pretty much doomed. Or is bad christian more deserving to enter the heaven than "better" Muslim or Hindu for an example? Is it that crucial to submit your life around one prophet that it gives you huge advantage in getting to this private club.

P.S
I hope you don't claim that christianity has moral upper ground in teaching how to live a better life over other religions.

Besides, you say that like Proselytism is something all churches do actively...

It should be done, according to the bible at least. It's not something you choose to do if you are a true believer, it's your duty.

[John I Tzimisces]

I wonder if God has some sort of point system how to get to heaven. 10 points from being a christian, - 5 from atheism etc.

Is christian person any more valuable to God than those who do not worship Jesus? And what are qualifications for salvation; is it to live a good life? That is teached in almost all religions around the world with only slight cultural differences, or is it to believe in Jesus; that christians get preferance over other good people or non-christians are doomed to damnation outright.

According to the bible; one and the most important qualification is to believe in Jesus, fail that and you are pretty much doomed. Or is bad christian more deserving to enter the heaven than "better" Muslim or Hindu for an example? Is it that crucial to submit your life around one prophet that it gives you huge advantage in getting to this private club.

On your first statement, frankly who are we to know? It's impossible to take an empirical view of something that is not rooted in logic, and if we try and pretend omniscience/omnipotence/omnipresence is, we still can't assume what God intends for anyone except for what is the canon.
On the second statement, the belief is that God loves all men equally being that they are created in his image and are his children etc etc etc.
We as Christians think we have a leg up on people of other faiths in getting into heaven because we think our criteria for getting into heaven is, well, The TRUE criteria.
Hence...why any religion exists: adherents are supposed to believe their faith is the truth for whatever they are trying to achieve spiritually.
So yes, obviously we think it's through Christ, but that's not enough. Someone who's a bad christian is really probably as damned as anyone who's been "bad" (I'd really not like to get into a discussion of what is good or bad and if there's a point to value systems...). Since it's written in the bible (which is a collection of parables and stories and really ought not to be read as "ALL THIS HAPPENED AND IF YOU DON'T DO THIS YOU ARE GOING TO HELL" but rather as "This is truth if you have the wisdom to see it".) that salvation comes through Christ and no one else, then it would be assumed that we hold this as one of our criteria. I PERSONALLY believe that someone who has been exposed to Christian beliefs and should "know better" and yet breaches tenants of his religion is looked down upon worse than someone who has been a muslim their whole life and has not necessarily "seen the word".

P.S
I hope you don't claim that christianity has moral upper ground in teaching how to live a better life over other religions.

What a silly statement. Obviously being a Christian I think following Christianity is the best way to live my life or else I would have no reason to be a christian.

It should be done, according to the bible at least. It's not something you choose to do if you are a true believer, it's your duty.

It says it should be done but it is not entirely specific on how it should be done if I remember right. As Christians we obligated to do two things in specific in regards to this: Do not deny or hide your faith in the face of others, and to spread christianity. For the latter, well, different strokes for different folks, at the armenian seminary we were taught that it was best to get the word out so to speak by being a good example (a good example of a christian in our view is someone who does good works in God's name and adhering to Christianity...).

[Eastern Roman]

I wonder if God has some sort of point system how to get to heaven. 10 points from being a christian, - 5 from atheism etc.
Is christian person any more valuable to God than those who do not worship Jesus? And what are qualifications for salvation; is it to live a good life? That is teached in almost all religions around the world with only slight cultural differences, or is it to believe in Jesus; that christians get preferance over other good people or non-christians are doomed to damnation outright.
According to the bible; one and the most important qualification is to believe in Jesus, fail that and you are pretty much doomed. Or is bad christian more deserving to enter the heaven than "better" Muslim or Hindu for an example? Is it that crucial to submit your life around one prophet that it gives you huge advantage in getting to this private club.
P.S
I hope you don't claim that christianity has moral upper ground in teaching how to live a better life over other religions.
It should be done, according to the bible at least. It's not something you choose to do if you are a true believer, it's your duty.

I think all this are catholic's church nonsenses; Jesus or Christian faith isn't crusades against the infidels.
I am Christian just because i was baptize and i don't support the church, and although i dislike/hate religion i don't believe Jesus who suppose to be a historical figure or bible ever originally said that.

[basics]

Pfundner,

Is there a place on this earth that missionaries or evangelists have not reached? Or is there a religion on this earth that does not teach of a Saviour who will save His people? I would doubt it in both cases.

You don't have to know everything about Him to be saved. You only have to hear or read even part of the Gospel for that to be enough for the Holy Ghost to react by revealing all that is necessary of Him for salvation.

Or to put it another way those who do receive it have been ordained to do so from before the world, never mind man, was made, and, whose names are written in the book of life. By grace God chose them in His time to be brought to Jesus and nothing on this earth can ever stop it happening.

It doesn't matter what that person knew. What does matter is that the Gospel is and must be preached throughout the world so that none are without responsibility in their dealings with a wrathful God who by the way gave His own Son that they would be saved.

Why so? Because since it is right that all accept that none are without guilt it is right and proper that some may have that guilt removed and removed by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That is the righteous action of God toward all men and women.

That He alone happens to be the Saviour and only Saviour of the world is not ours to question, rather rejoice in the fact that God made provision that He should come to save any. Christians are only so because the Hebrews for most part rejected Him.

So, when you grouse about others remember those others have nothing to do with your own salvation and neither will any assumption that they may or may not have heard the Gospel be taken into account when your position is assessed before God.

[Ragabash]

Pfundner,

Is there a place on this earth that missionaries or evangelists have not reached? Or is there a religion on this earth that does not teach of a Saviour who will save His people? I would doubt it in both cases.

Yes, most certainly. There are definetly parts of this world where people know nothing about christianity (do you consider that proper knowledge, that people know christianity but nothing about it?)

You don't have to know everything about Him to be saved. You only have to hear or read even part of the Gospel for that to be enough for the Holy Ghost to react by revealing all that is necessary of Him for salvation.

You cannot expect people to change their religion just because they read a line or two from a book. That is why there is missionary work. And in many places it's not allowed to conduct christianity or sell the books (like in China for an example).

Or to put it another way those who do receive it have been ordained to do so from before the world, never mind man, was made, and, whose names are written in the book of life. By grace God chose them in His time to be brought to Jesus and nothing on this earth can ever stop it happening.

So we are just pawns in a chess game that is already determined? Am I to blame that God made this way, unbeliever?

It doesn't matter what that person knew. What does matter is that the Gospel is and must be preached throughout the world so that none are without responsibility in their dealings with a wrathful God who by the way gave His own Son that they would be saved.

So it doesn't matter what people know but missionary work is still a requirement or you might end up in the hell? Doesn't make much sense.

Why so? Because since it is right that all accept that none are without guilt it is right and proper that some may have that guilt removed and removed by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That is the righteous action of God toward all men and women.

Are you saying that no-one expect christians can get rid of their guilt?

So, when you grouse about others remember those others have nothing to do with your own salvation and neither will any assumption that they may or may not have heard the Gospel be taken into account when your position is assessed before God.

So as long as we live a decent life we don't need to care a crap about others?

[basics]

" You cannot expect people to change their religion just because they read a line or two from a book. That is why there is missionary work. And in many places it's not allowed to conduct christianity or sell the books (like in China for an example)."

Ragabash,

People can and do change religion everyday but that has nothing to do with the work and power of God to choose them that He changes so that Jesus Christ becomes their Saviour.

The key lies in hearing or reading the Gospel for it is the power of God to save and it is the only power in all worldly affairs. Now that can be from the radio, TV, newspapers, missionaries and evangelists, it matters not from where.

The places it is banned is because of the veracity of it's power to change what otherwise could never be changed and by that I mean people's lives. The powers that ban it are scared because it's power is greater than their's.

You see it is not built on maybe's but it is built on sureties and nothing can be surer than the man or woman who one day disbelieved God and on the next cannot stop talking about what He did to their lives in the last hours.

You mention China, yet there are many in that land who are being saved on a daily basis. But why do you think that Islam bans the Gospel? Surely because Christianity offers much more than Islam can only dream about.

[Ragabash]

People can and do change religion everyday but that has nothing to do with the work and power of God to choose them that He changes so that Jesus Christ becomes their Saviour.

You seriously seem to think that people somehow feel mystical power taking hold of them after they hear a line or two from the book, or some random person telling them that there was once was a person who was killed and by that his father, the God saved us all.

You might see the bible in different light but be serious and think for a moment what you are saying. It sounds like you are here to preach, not to debate.

The key lies in hearing or reading the Gospel for it is the power of God to save and it is the only power in all worldly affairs. Now that can be from the radio, TV, newspapers, missionaries and evangelists, it matters not from where.

I think you have a serious problem in accepting that missionary work is not just about making the religion available to the people.

The places it is banned is because of the veracity of it's power to change what otherwise could never be changed and by that I mean people's lives. The powers that ban it are scared because it's power is greater than their's.

It's mostly for political reason and keeping stability within the vast country. You might not know but China has long history of oppressing many other religions as well other than christianity.

You see it is not built on maybe's but it is built on sureties and nothing can be surer than the man or woman who one day disbelieved God and on the next cannot stop talking about what He did to their lives in the last hours.

You start to sound like a politician who cannot decide in what to believe.

You mention China, yet there are many in that land who are being saved on a daily basis. But why do you think that Islam bans the Gospel? Surely because Christianity offers much more than Islam can only dream about.

And we will just have to take your word on this. What a nice argument.

My dad is stronger than yours!

[finsternis]

You mention China, yet there are many in that land who are being saved on a daily basis. But why do you think that Islam bans the Gospel? Surely because Christianity offers much more than Islam can only dream about.

Funny thing, they say the same thing about their religion. lol
Wonder who should be believe. :hmmm:

By the way, you speak as if people only convert from some religion to Christianity. That is not the case. People convert from Christianity to other religions, you know?

Also, I have read the gospels and the old testament. No magical power have turned me into a Christian. I actually became atheist when I read the bible.

[renegade765]

I've pondered this question before. As a christian myself I've always thought it strange too. I'll try to help. God cannot stand any form of sin in his presence that's why he cast satan and the demons to hell. It is either painful or fills him with anger when he sees sin I'm not sure which one. What jesus does is cover our sins so we can be in gods presence without angering him. Basically if we step into heaven without jesus covering us god detests the sight of our sin and casts judgement. As he is known in the bible as a judge (as well as many other things) he must give us the punishment that he gave satan or else then what good is his justice. Something I believe in after hearing speakers and reading is that hell can get worse. If your sins are not horrible than your punishment will not be as bad as say.. hitlers. So what about these people who don't know jesus and why do missionaries struggle all their lives? People who have not heard of jesus are definately taken into consideration by god, but they can't stand in his presence without jesus. I'm honestly not sure where they go, but I can guess its some mild form of hell. That may sound awfull, but thats how I believe it works.....but who can fathom god..

[DimeBagHo]

According to a pastor i heard the other day, christians say the only way you can get to heaven is to believe in jesus, and "let him into your life"... but to me this doesnt sound like something a loving god would say.

There are plenty of people in the world who have probably never hear of jesus, let alone heard enough about him to believe that he is their saviour. I highly doubt that some rice farmer in the remote regions of china, or a kid making footballs in india would know much about this jesus fellow. And what about people who are simply brought up believing a different religion? are all these people doomed to go to hell, simply because of where they were born, or what their parents and their society told them was right?

Any christians have an explanation for me? :hmmm:

The Jehovah's Witnesses have an answer for you. Maybe you should ask them some time.

Here's the short version. By the time the last days arrive everyone alive will have heard the 'good news'. Everyone who has heard the 'good news', but rejected the offer of salvation, is toast (children excepted as a special case). People who died before the arrival of the end times, without ever hearing the 'good news', will then be resurrected and given a chance to accept Jesus. Those who refuse will then die a second death which is permanent (JWs don't believe in eternal damnation - the final outcome for heathens is just non-existence).

The JWs are an interesting bunch. A lot of their more idiosyncratic beliefs are innovative solutions to theological problems like this.

[Copperknickers II]

"You seriously seem to think that people somehow feel mystical power taking hold of them after they hear a line or two from the book, or some random person telling them that there was once was a person who was killed and by that his father, the God saved us all."

They do, they have an experience and recognise that the bible is true. < Not my opinion, btw, just an insight into how they think. As for hell, imo, 'letting jesus into your life' is a metaphor which means follow his ways. You do not have to be a christian, but you do have to be kind and love your fellow human beings. Society has proven that everyone is capable of doing that, whatever their circumstances, so it is not a question of whether they have ever heard of Jesus' teachings.

[Oglethorpe1983]

@ Pfunder

Im a Roman Catholic... (and while I cant speak for ancient Church docterine...) I can tell you where I stand

As far as Im concered ones reliious choice ISNT the main factor for who gets into heaven... its about living a good "Godly" life...meaning... in the simpliest sense be a good person...

This applies to my fellow Catholics, as well as Protestants, Jews, Muslims, pagans, even athiests....

If you are good to your fellow man... you dont kill, cheat, steal, and try and bring some goodness to the world...thats all (I hope) you need

[Ragabash]

They do, they have an experience and recognise that the bible is true. < Not my opinion, btw, just an insight into how they think. As for hell, imo, 'letting jesus into your life' is a metaphor which means follow his ways. You do not have to be a christian, but you do have to be kind and love your fellow human beings. Society has proven that everyone is capable of doing that, whatever their circumstances, so it is not a question of whether they have ever heard of Jesus' teachings.

That doesn't make it any better argument, not even from a christian point of view.