Paeninsula Italic Suggestions and Comments

[Hister]

Aper, YOU ARE THE MEN FOR THE EDU TASK! Opinions of others can be regarded as suggestions to make your job better/easier. You don't actually have to do all that is suggested

Thanx again mate!

[DaVinci]

Ups, i missed it: sec hp. But afaik, this stat makes no difference. Does the sec hp stat influence the health of a unit. I thought this is only due for elephants and for chariots.

; stat_health Hit points of man, followed by hit points of mount or attached animal (if applicable)
; Ridden horses and camels do not have separate hit points

... bold is for elephants and chariots.

[Hister]

No DaVinci: secondary health stat influences all unit types and is a great tool for balancing the autoaclculated battles and thus campaigns!

[DaVinci]

No DaVinci: secondary health stat influences all unit types and is a great tool for balancing the autoaclculated battles and thus campaigns!

Aha, must be a discovery against the CA edu instructions then.
Never saw this applied, afaik. But i have to look into edu's done by Aradan deeper, obviously.

Edit: Ok, i see it in VI2's edu. Very good idea then, just raise it for the Romans ... lol.

[Hister]

According to aradan's guide:

Balancing auto-resolve

The second value of stat_health can be used to improve the balance of auto-resolve. Certain units like chariots are currently overpowered in it, while other like mounted and missile units are underpowered. Here follow some rough suggestions on how to assign sec hp values in order to balance auto-resolve more evenly:

• Animal units stay as they are.
• All other units get 5 sec hps.
• Units with 2 or more prim hps get -1 sec hp for each extra prim one.
• Missile units with low-medium missile attack get +1 sec hp.
• Missile units with medium-high missile attack get +2 sec hps.
• Mounted units with low-medium charge get +1 sec hp.
• Mounted units with medium-high charge get +2 sec hps.

[Hister]

And i support your view DaVinci!

[Aper]

This means something like roman heavy infantry getting 6 sec HPs instead of normal 5, if we decide to use this system, right?

[DaVinci]

I would go probable with 7 for Roman line infantry: Hastati, Principes, Triarii ..., all other same as the common system that you will apply, in the hope the Roman AI will recruit these units at most ... but this could be supported by just an easier access via train costs and eventually an edb recruitment system different to the one that is applied now).

Btw., i found one bug in edu: Rhaeti Lancearii have only 20 men instead of 40.

[Aper]

I would go probable with 7 for Roman line infantry: Hastati, Principes, Triarii ..., all other same as the common system that you will apply, in the hope the Roman AI will recruit these units at most ... but this could be supported by just an easier access via train costs and eventually an edb recruitment system different to the one that is applied now).

Btw., i found one bug in edu: Rhaeti Lancearii have only 20 men instead of 40.

Maybe I should give Roman heavy infantry 0 rec time? this should encourage greatly the AI to train them, but I fear it will be excessive and unbalancing :hmmm:By the way, historically the Roman availability of new armies to replace defeated ones was legendary ...

Thanx for the segnalation of the bug!

[DaVinci]

Maybe I should give Roman heavy infantry 0 rec time? this should encourage greatly the AI to train them, but I fear it will be excessive and unbalancing :hmmm:By the way, historically the Roman availability of new armies to replace defeated ones was legendary ...

Thanx for the segnalation of the bug!

It's worth a test, for Hastati and Principes imo..
But then they shouldn't get significant lower costs, what i else suggested, or the human player could overrun to easy the map.

Edit: Contrary, eventually those units should get higher train costs and upkeep then, to counter the possible human player exploit. It's worth a test actually, and could reflect at least also the high available numbers of these Roman militia soldiers. But difficult to balance in the whole anyway, as the AI can go bancrott, if the upkeep is too high.
A roman AI money script can counter-effect this though, this is easily done.

[Hister]

Guys I won't manage to upload the patch today. Tomorrow or in Sunday. Please be patient - it will be worth it!

[DaVinci]

Guys I won't manage to upload the patch today. Tomorrow or in Sunday. Please be patient - it will be worth it!

Too bad, i thought you could upload a first rough patch in the next hour, only to see the patch tendency (despite all the edu balance etc.), and that i can play the mod improved .
It would give me also a better idea on helping you in some of the things we discuss via pm all the days

[Hister]

Ha ha Aper - you rulz!

[Aper]

Ok guys, I want your opinion about my new mini-system, it's heavily morale-based, with tweaks and adjustments when necessary :
1) unit size : 10 bodyguards, 20 cavalry and uber-elites, 40 melee infantry, 60 missile infantry and hoplites
2) unit mass : IMO the effect of "push" is in most mods excessive, so I'm giving all units a mass > 1 : according to Aradan EDU guide the effect of push is smaller when pushed soldiers have mass > 1. Normally I give units a mass of 1.(2xMorale) obviously hoplites without shield-wall have higher, 1.(4xMorale), when they have shield-wall I don't raise their mass because it gives insane pushing power.
All Hoplites also get their normal 0.4 soldier radius reduced by the value of their morale = lower unit radius value makes hoplite fight like a whole and helps mantaining a tidy battle formation ( the suggested minimum is 0.2)
3) space between soldiers : normally I use a 2/3 relation width/depth, 4 lines, but this need heavy testing
4) I have yet to decide the exact amount of sec HPs to give to units, because I feel the chariots overpowered and I want to reduce theirs : about chariots I depend on your opinion, because I have no idea of the fighting style of chariots in italian peninsula.
5) about javs, I give to all a -10 range, 0 attack delay ; pilum have their attack doubled and AP removed
6) these are my new weapons values : attack, charge / delay
- machaera: 7, 4 / 6
- gladium,xiphos: 5, 2 / 4
- kopis, falcata: 6, 3 / 6

Celtic :
- Longsword: 6, 6 / 6
- Sword: 5, 4 / 4

- dagger: 3, 1 / 0
- knife: 2, 0 / 0

- heavy axe: 7, 7 / 10
- light axe: 6, 6 / 8

- short spear: 4, 4 / 2
- long spear: 5, 5 / 4
- hoplite spear: 10, 5 / 8
- sarissa: 6, 6 / 10
most have yet to be tested, I'm doing it now
7) lethality is now entirely dependent on morale (0.2xMorale) : I got an headache trying to decide if a swordslash in the chest is more or less dangerous than a spearstab in the face, then I realized it's a nonsensical question : a well trained soldier can kill you even with his bare hands ; differences between weapons are portraied by attack charge and delay values.
8) little tweaks to defense to counter a bit the new "light_spear" attribute, given the no shield-wall hoplites a +2 to shield
9) costs : it's very hard to decide before seeing the new economic model : but I'm willing to raise the cost of hoplites in a range of 50 - 100 %
10) I have yet to decide the exact amount of Roman boni : I'll ask your opinion when I'll have any ideas

uuuff finish! please share thoughts / suggestions / criticism!!!!

[Hister]

Sounds good Aper but yeah, only testing will tell if good or not

Chariots weren't used that often by our factions except Celtic ones who had a lot of them. They were mainly used for skirmishing purposes and to scary the foe. Drivers didn't go into enemy formation full ahead since that would be the end of them. I really don't have a clue how to portray this besides what is already done on them.

[Hister]

Ligurian infantry units don't get their weapon upgrades even with Apunia/Blacksmith built, probably because they're not marked as light/heavy infantry. I think they're all considered missle units, since they all get weapon upgrades from the archery range.

Aper, change that to for Ligurians!

[Aper]

Aper, change that to for Ligurians!

funditores, sagittarii and ferentarii "missile", lanceari "infantry spearmen", spatharii "infantry heavy" : there's nothing wrong ... :hmmm:
@ Hister
another idea about shield-wall : give it to all italic units that have "Hoplite" in the name, and remove it from clipeati / triarii, making them "shieldwall-less" hoplites.

[HouseOfHam]

funditores, sagittarii and ferentarii "missile", lanceari "infantry spearmen", spatharii "infantry heavy" : there's nothing wrong ... :hmmm:
@ Hister
another idea about shield-wall : give it to all italic units that have "Hoplite" in the name, and remove it from clipeati / triarii, making them "shieldwall-less" hoplites.

Why do they have 'archery' in stat_pri??? It should be 'simple'.

[Hister]

Hah, Aper I hope you don't get lost 'cos of all those suggestions! This last idea is pretty much what I have done for M2TW PI!

Okey - so Ligurians are fine. was just posting it from one member of ours - was probably related to taht smith bonus not being applied.

[Aper]

lost? naah I'm super-intelligent!
up to now, only 1/3 of the new EDU is done , it's a long work ....