General unit and horse :)

[Janster]

I wish I really wish we could do away with this stupid unit, i have just played a game here where this unit carved its way thru my spearmean/footsoldiers/whatever in a close quarter combat in a city.

After watching 29 men slaughter about 250 troops I grew tired of it

Speaking of horses, uhm they can't charge downhill, always nagged me a bit about Total war.

A horse is actually faster at charging uphill, as it will not really move much otherwise.

Secondly cavalry is so overpowered its not even funny, in the real world, they used to charge the enemy..but if their ranks didn't break, they would stop, and try again, they would NEVER charge an enemy who stood their ground.

Basically, its use as scout and peasant router was its main use, was rarly to act as a tank.

Ohwell, this mod is about making the game hard, yes make it hard, but I'd be more fun if that general unit didn't exist.

Janster

[Practiti0ner]

Well i dont know how you make up your army but i always have some kind of spear/pike unit or something thats used to defend against calvary, if your having a hard time with a generals unit then re-think your units. I personally only use my calvary as a last line of defense and to run down fleeing or broken units.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Janster...

That phenomema happens every now and again in most MTWII & Modded games. it's just the breaks... My general/FM units always seem to drop like flies though... If your having trouble dispatching AI generals try putting your spears in defence mode {shield button} and try backing them up with axemen, javlins,etc. You know mixed combat arms. Use flame arrows to give'm the Extra Toasty!

If you find your FM/Generals units overpowered then just use them for morale/dread boost and running down routers

[Neige]

Basically, its use as scout and peasant router was its main use, was rarly to act as a tank.

Are you talking about heavy cavalry? Bull s### man!! Take Templars and Hospitallers. Their armies relied basicly on HEAVY CAVALRY. And I don't think cavalry is overpowered. Imagine an army of heavy armoured, heavy armed men riding their horses with speed and pointing their razor sharp lances at you. Must have guts not to flee before they reach you. It's destructive.

[edders]

It's easy enough to simply mod the general units so they have very few men (thus rendering them an extremely risk choice in battle), unfortunately the AI fails to address this problem and still charges their AI unit into the thick of it, thus getting them kied practically every battle. Sady I don't think there's any way to fix this problem due to hardcoded AI values (thankfully it looks like the AI will take better care of its men in Empires *yay*), but if you find the generals being used as super-units a real annoyance you ma as well do this.

[indonesia]

salama kenal semua

[Point Blank]

Drop the general's HP to 1 if its still set at 2.

[Tetsu]

I usually aim my entire archer forces at the general soon as it gets in range. Horsemen (to me) Are by far the biggest threat on the battlefield. Due to the way I construct my armies, I have plentiful spears to blunt assaults and swordsmen to drive them back. If the general charges my line I usually risk breaking it to surround him with spears, ensuring his demise.

[Janster]

Tnx for replies, I will endure these generals as I can tell they are a hardcoded problem. Tbh they should not have been in the game at all, and left the general as a more abstract leaderdude imho.

Seriously they rarely took part in the actual fighting ever.(if they knew whats good for em)

As for horses, I'm sorry, but this cavalry mythos is based on heavy cavalry charging down peasants who rout, yes impressive, but trust me, in reality, they NEVER charged formations that held their ground.
Warriors on horse are extremly vulnerable, and the heavier the armour, they could not even walk unhorsed, which was extremly easy to become.

Templars and their lots cavalry won only -1- battle in the crusades, the rest of the time they got absolutly mauled by saladins ranged cav, which was way more effective.

Lets just say if you want proof, Agincourt is a good one, the french had serious trouble against the english, even tho the french cav was way better.

[Caesar Clivus]

Seriously they rarely took part in the actual fighting ever.(if they knew whats good for em)

Actually a lot of leaders still did at this time. Ok sometimes they just got caught up in the tide of the battle, but there were a lot of leaders who still charged into battle. Because in Europe at this time caution was considered a sign of cowardice, a leader who didn't lead his men in a headlong charge into the enemy would quickly lose the confidence of his army. Using the example you gave of Agincourt, Henry V was in the thick of fighting.

As for horses, I'm sorry, but this cavalry mythos is based on heavy cavalry charging down peasants who rout, yes impressive, but trust me, in reality, they NEVER charged formations that held their ground.

Well they did...they just didn't know that the enemy infantry would hold their ground until afterwards

Warriors on horse are extremly vulnerable, and the heavier the armour, they could not even walk unhorsed, which was extremly easy to become.

Actually the image of unhorsed knights not being able to walk in their armour is a myth. I've seen a guy in full plate mail do combat rolls like GI Joe . Most armour was custom-made for each man so it afforded him the maximum amount of movement possible. The only problem was, as in the example you gave of Agincourt where the ground was terribly muddy and the weight of the armour sucked them into the mud. On hard ground though they could walk and fight quite easily. They would tire quickly of course though.

Lets just say if you want proof, Agincourt is a good one, the french had serious trouble against the english, even tho the french cav was way better.

Yes but there were many factors that contributed to the French defeat at Agincourt. The muddy ground was one where the lighter armoured english soldiers had a distinct advantage. But the main problem was that there were far too many French knights on the field. They were forced together like sardines in a can, which left them extremely vulnerable to the 5000 or so longbows of the english. And once the first wave of French cavalry was torn to pieces, the completely messed up the second wave as they tried to get back to their lines. But if the ground wasn't muddy and the battlefield was bigger, the French would have slaughtered the English.

[Stephan de St. Omer]

I second what Caesar Clivus statet.

For example it was especially the lethal charge of the Teutonic Knights that made them feared on the Battlefield. Agincourt only testifies what happens if a general - in this case the French King - chooses the battleground badly. Charging Cavalry needs a lot of space and firm ground.

Another example would be the battles of Frederick I on his way to the Holy Land in 1189-1190 and respectively the Battles at Konya where the Knights of the HRE easily routed the turkish light cavalry on the plains in front of Konya itself but were defeated by them in the woods some days earlier.

So choose your battleground wisely!

Regards,

Stephan

[Neige]

Actually the image of unhorsed knights not being able to walk in their armour is a myth. I've seen a guy in full plate mail do combat rolls like GI Joe . Most armour was custom-made for each man so it afforded him the maximum amount of movement possible.

Exactly. A healthy man armoured in plate could even run down lighter men. In fact such knights could even mount on their horses with out any help!

[Caesar Clivus]

Exactly. A healthy man armoured in plate could even run down lighter men. In fact such knights could even mount on their horses with out any help!

Yup. The myth that knights needed to be winched onto their horses is a fabrication of Hollywood