The E.U

[King phaerlock]

Hello

I am a Briton and i have many lessons in school teaching me about the continent and how 70% of the laws made in britain were passed in brussels before.

Now i am blessed with both a Socialist as one granddad and a slightly less open-minded granddad. they both have completely different views but both display them intelligently and effectivley i just wanted to know what your views on the comming super-power is bothe britons and international citizens of the world

p.s i am rivited to think what americans think of it.

[King phaerlock]

o btw i think the eu's entire part in the world is to act as a ally agains a now dangerous and aggreive russia but should we commit ourselves so to it?

[attilavolciak07]

o btw i think the eu's entire part in the world is to act as a ally agains a now dangerous and aggreive russia but should we commit ourselves so to it?

Nah, that's NATO. If Russia joined NATO, they would have no reason to live. After all, they started NATO just to kick Russia's in the future.

i just wanted to know what your views on the comming super-power is bothe britons and international citizens of the world

I tend to see the EU as a growing attempt by Europe to re-rise on the world stage. The EU is for a good cause but it does lose some autonomy in your country. But here in Macedonia, the EU would be the best thing for us, protection and allies. If only those Greeks would let us.

[Probe]

i just wanted to know what your views on the comming super-power is bothe britons and international citizens of the world

The EU has to be a state first before it can become a superpower.

[King phaerlock]

The EU has to be a state first before it can become a superpower.

thinking about it the power it has right now is basicly enough to call it a superpower it is already one, in all but name good, bad only time will tell

[Zymran]

The EU's absolutely harmless. It doesn't go around policing the world like the UN or threatening countries like NATO. It's first and foremost a trade group/friendly get-together to benefit the countries of Europe and hopefully prevent wars etc by having a peaceful means to settle disputes - its a bit like a mini-UN in that sense.

But its hardly a superpower - like Probe said, it's not a state, it's a supranational organisation, without any military branch of its own(as far as i know ). All it does is pass laws about international fishing rights and the like. And even then they are sometimes ignored by national governments (especially in the UK )

The real issue in the UK is that lots of people don't want 'foreign' laws affecting them - they want homemade laws only. But the EU itself doesn't pass the sort of laws that would affect most people. The European Court of Human Rights is a different matter - their laws do affect us, and I think its even a prerequisite of joining the EU that your country subcribes to their human rights legislation, so they're a big part of the EU.

Actually human rights is a good example of how a country can ignore European 'law' without rebuke - the UK government, despite us having a Human Rights Act, just ignore the sections of it they don't like (ie. don't lock someone up without trial) and there's not a lot the EU or the Court of Human Rights can do about it.

[Carach]

The EU's absolutely harmless. It doesn't go around policing the world like the UN or threatening countries like NATO.

eh? Nato threatens countries ?

the EU has several times threatened (and implemented) sanctions upon Iran, for just one example.

This kind of stuff is what international politics is all about :/ If we didnt have people that wanted to do something about a danger we wouldnt be alive.

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Anyway, as a Brit, i believe the EU is important to our future, and those of the countries on the continent - we will fall behind in the world if we do not band together. If only we could get a better, more streamlined and united foreign policy on stuff and a more efficient/effective military (which would mean for me, that countries like Germany get rid of that consitutional thing or something that stops them from deploying effectively abroad.)

If Britain were in the same position it was say..70 years ago, i wouldnt be encouraging uniting with continental europe. However we have nothing else, the Commonwealth has so much potential but is little used.... on our own we're completely lacking of self sufficiency and international influence.... etc etc

[Zymran]

eh? Nato threatens countries ?

Sorry that was just a reference to the 'NATO was formed to scare Russia' comments above.

the EU has several times threatened (and implemented) sanctions upon Iran, for just one example.

I didn't know that
But still, its not as active as the UN in 'meddling'.

Anyway, as a Brit, i believe the EU is important to our future, and those of the countries on the continent - we will fall behind in the world if we do not band together. If only we could get a better, more streamlined and united foreign policy on stuff and a more efficient/effective military (which would mean for me, that countries like Germany get rid of that consitutional thing or something that stops them from deploying effectively abroad.)

If Britain were in the same position it was say..70 years ago, i wouldnt be encouraging uniting with continental europe. However we have nothing else, the Commonwealth has so much potential but is little used.... on our own we're completely lacking of self sufficiency and international influence.... etc etc

I agree - if the UK wants to maintain the pretence that we actually have the same influence we used to, we need to get more involved with the EU. At least partly just so we aren't seen quite so much as the US's cronie and more as a European nation.

Um.. how come there is such a thing as a Eurofighter and they are planning to raise up an army through the countries it controlls.

Whoops, hadn't heard of that either Maybe I should get a bit more up-to-date before I mouth off

[Nikitn]

Whoops, hadn't heard of that either Maybe I should get a bit more up-to-date before I mouth off

Nah, the Eurofighter isn't a EU project. It's a result of a cooperation between Italy, Spain, Britain & Germany. There is no 'EU army'. That's only an illusion.

Incontinenta Buttox, Mate, are you joking or are you actually serious? If your joking, it was a good joke. If your serious, I'l pray for you.

[poloport]

There is no 'EU army'. That's only an illusion.

actually the eu has a rapid reaction force composed of 60 000 men

[Heinz Guderian]

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Anyway, as a Brit, i believe the EU is important to our future, and those of the countries on the continent - we will fall behind in the world if we do not band together. If only we could get a better, more streamlined and united foreign policy on stuff and a more efficient/effective military (which would mean for me, that countries like Germany get rid of that consitutional thing or something that stops them from deploying effectively abroad.)

If Britain were in the same position it was say..70 years ago, i wouldnt be encouraging uniting with continental europe. However we have nothing else, the Commonwealth has so much potential but is little used.... on our own we're completely lacking of self sufficiency and international influence.... etc etc

Exactly what i was about to say. rep+

Edit: does anyone know what is holding back Germany from rearming/spending more on the military?

[Probe]

Edit: does anyone know what is holding back Germany from rearming/spending more on the military?

The expensive development of different forms of sourkraut?

[Carach]

Edit: does anyone know what is holding back Germany from rearming/spending more on the military?

its a phenomenon thats happening all over western europe: politicians cutting budgets to throw at unnecessary welfare stuff.

[Heinz Guderian]

its a phenomenon thats happening all over western europe: politicians cutting budgets to throw at unnecessary welfare stuff.

no i mean "legally". Do they have to spend within certain restrictions placed on them 60 odd years ago?

[Kleos]

.... on our own we're completely lacking of self sufficiency and international influence.... etc etc

I'd bet the fifth largest economy, the third largest military budget and a seat on the UN security council that this is utter rubbish. You're better than this Carach - need the EU? We don't even need it for a free trade agreement or for freedom of movement: this simply cannot be denied.

[Carach]

I'd bet the fifth largest economy, the third largest military budget and a seat on the UN security council that this is utter rubbish. You're better than this Carach - need the EU? We don't even need it for a free trade agreement or for freedom of movement: this simply cannot be denied.

fifth largest/3rd highest and rapidly dropping/being overtaken.

[Kleos]

fifth largest/3rd highest and rapidly dropping/being overtaken.

Assuming ,for the sake of argument alone, that this is true, why dont we apply to become a state of the USA? Worlds largest economy, worlds reserve currency, most powerful military, more in common religously, culturally, historically, legally, judicially. You obviously have no concern over issues of national sovereignty if you support the EU. A union with the USA would be far more logical if all you've got for further ties for the EU is power and money.

[eisenkopf]

On Germany's defense budget:

No, there is no law that restricts spending on defense. However, there is one significant difference between the german army and most other European armies: Because of WWII, Germany restricted its army to defending its borders and Europe from the Warsaw Pact, while the others have not had such a restriction. The whole command structure, infrastructure and equipment has been geared toward that single goal for over four decades. Since the end of the Warsaw Pact, the German army has slowly, and against much resistance from its citizens, transformed so that limited operations abroad are possible. nevertheless, it is still mostly a conscript army for territorial defense. it lacks the means to deploy as much troops as the French or British Army, although it is (by numbers) larger.

On European Defense Organizations:

The battlegroups are more of an ad-hoc measure. There is, however, one (almost dormant) institution: the Western European union

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_Union

[Thorn777]

eh? Nato threatens countries ?

the EU has several times threatened (and implemented) sanctions upon Iran, for just one example.

This kind of stuff is what international politics is all about :/ If we didnt have people that wanted to do something about a danger we wouldnt be alive.

---

Anyway, as a Brit, i believe the EU is important to our future, and those of the countries on the continent - we will fall behind in the world if we do not band together. If only we could get a better, more streamlined and united foreign policy on stuff and a more efficient/effective military (which would mean for me, that countries like Germany get rid of that consitutional thing or something that stops them from deploying effectively abroad.)

If Britain were in the same position it was say..70 years ago, i wouldnt be encouraging uniting with continental europe. However we have nothing else, the Commonwealth has so much potential but is little used.... on our own we're completely lacking of self sufficiency and international influence.... etc etc

Excellent post, hope England and Germany gets their act together.
The neir future, will be nothing like the past 60 years, and will challenge Europe to its fullest.

[King phaerlock]

The EU's absolutely harmless. .

Um.. how come there is such a thing as a Eurofighter and they are planning to raise up an army through the countries it controlls.

If the E.U is just a ploy to gain world attention amounst the power of russia america and china then i would wish nothing to do with it after all the british had a massive empire and i feel that we should just withdraw to our quiet little country and let the world sort itself out without influence. Also if the Commonwealth wants guidance then it should be given but only by diplomacy not force