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  1. #1

    Default I am terrible at battling.

    Total war games are awesome because they have TBS and RTS combined in one. But truthfully, I am a horrendous general.

    I can't pull off any advanced tactics or battle formations.

    I can do okay in smaller scalled battles, but I make a lot of blunders in huge battles. I do best in defensive battles. Where I just sit and wait for teh enemy to come to me, and all my missile troops cut down their numbers before they reach me.

    I can do flanking, but only in smaller battles. In bigger battles the enemy usually has multiple reserve lines, which makes my flanking maneuvers high risk and usually ill rewarded.

    I rarely use cavalry units except for maybe one or two, beacuse I can't get them to flank properly when I have multiple cavalry units.

    I don't know how to properly screen.

    My most advanced formation which I used with some success was alternating between missile troops and infantry in a semi circle battle line. This made the missile troops more vunerable, but the idea was to allow them maximum space to fire upon the enemy without any friendly fire. Then when the enemy enganged them, any unengaged nearby infantry would flank the enemy. I stopped using it because I found it to much safer to just let my infantry take the losses instead with the missile troops behind so that they take less losses and do maximum damage.

  2. #2

    Default Re: I am terrible at battling.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumaznguy View Post
    I can do flanking, but only in smaller battles. In bigger battles the enemy usually has multiple reserve lines, which makes my flanking maneuvers high risk and usually ill rewarded.
    Sounds like you're using cavalry all wrong. You need to be patient w/ cavalry and move them away from the action to start the battle. Try not to engage infantry head on, especially any type of phalanx unit. If you're going to charge an infantry unit that isn't engaged, try to make sure that you can isolate that infantry unit and cut it down before any help arrives for it. If you can't do this, then simply out run the enemy to pick a better spot to attack.

    Pick your spots carefully w/ cavalry. Try to run a charge into the rear of an already engaged enemy. The strength of cavalry is the charge, so when they've been engaged for a while, figure out how to get them out of the melee so that they can get freed up to mount another charge.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumaznguy View Post
    I rarely use cavalry units except for maybe one or two, beacuse I can't get them to flank properly when I have multiple cavalry units.
    "Grouped" cavalry will do their own thing if you tell them all to do it at once. They'll typically charge the nearest enemy when told as a group to charge. In order to get them to go where you want them specifically to go you need to give each unit their own instructions. This seems very time consuming, but in imperial campaigns the Pause button is invaluable when it comes to cavalry.

  3. #3

    Default Re: I am terrible at battling.

    Yea I get pretty impatient. Well because I see my infantry taking casualties, and the enemy troops are of inferior quality and they are managing to hold my superior infantry off. I use pause a lot, but when I have units attacking on multiple fronts, things get hectic, and thats where most of my blunders come from. Probably doesn't help that I don't zoom out to see the battlefield more clearly.

    About reserve lines, am I supposed to have a second line of infantry behind the first, and make the front row withdraw when they are in trouble? Or do I use the reserves to flank on sides / fill in any gaps formed from casualties?

  4. #4
    Entropy Judge's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: I am terrible at battling.

    I use reserves as fresh troops to throw in when necessary - if you try to withdraw the front row, they take more casualties (they lose the shield) and, if they're low morale, tend to start routing if you aren't careful. It's better if you can get a decent flanking movement up so you keep the charge bonus, but as long as they get in there you should be alright.

  5. #5
    NobleNick's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: I am terrible at battling.

    Your standard mix formation should look something like this:

    Code:
                 Your forces
              A  A    G    A  A
       C C   HI P P P P P P P HI   C C
    
    
       * *   * * * * * * * * *   * *
                  * * * * *
                 Enemy forces
    Where
    G= General
    A= Archers
    C = cav
    HI = Heavy infantry or other elite forces
    P = Phalanx or HI or mid-grade infantry.

    If you deviate from the above (and there are many, many reasons why you should, in various circumstances) you should know why you are doing so.

    The default strategy of many (including the AI) is to meet the enemy with front lines ('P' units) and then out flank them with your ends ('HI' in this case). Of course your enemy is trying to do the exact same thing to you. So, in these slug fests, it often comes down to troop quality and whose front line is longer; UNLESS you throw a monkey wrench into the works. Here are a few monkey wrenchs that I know work for 'Hard' and 'Very Hard' battle difficulty:

    1.) Run your cav down the outside flanks of the enemy, as they approach. Usually, the outside units of the enemy's front line will stop and turn to address the possibility of a cav charge to their flank. This slows them down and can turn them so that they are more vulnerable to your archer fire. It also gets the enemy's nice straight front all out of whack, so that they hit your line piecemeal.

    2.) Concentrate all your archer fire on a few selected enemy units, making them weaker and sapping their morale. This makes it easier to start an enemy rout.

    3.) Use your cav to run the flanks (as in #1) and then dive in to charge selected 'soft' targets, like archers. If any enemy infantry turn around to get your cav, make sure that your archers fire into their backs.

    4.) BEFORE battle, make sure your stacks position on the campaign map is such that you can only be attacked from downhill. Then, in the battle map, place your archers on as high ground as you can. The extra range your archers get, plus the shortened range the enemy gets, adds up to a big advantage for you. Also, the enemy needs to fight uphill to get to you, which is another big advantage for you.

    5.) If you get good at 4, you will likely want to get more archers, so that the enemy is slaughtered before they can even close to melee.

    6.) If the enemy is low on cav support, separate your cav and general out as a second force, which can sweep around behind the enemy and take out the general and less protected troops (e.g., archers). This forces the enemy to address two fronts, breaks up their line (so that your infantry can deal with it peicemeal) and lowers their morale.

    7.) Hide your forces, except general, in the trees. Let the enemy chase your general a while, to tire them out, then run the general through your lines. As the tired enemy approaches, in disarray, pop your attack on them.

    8.) Forget foot troops totally. Get your half stack of heavy cav (with 1 to 4 generals in the half-stack) attacked in open, hilly terrain. Run your cav from corner to corner of the map (Clock wise or CCW) and stop to rest in each corner, while the enemy runs/walks non-stop to catch you. After the entire enemy force is exhausted, start picking off stragglers, using 3 cav to simultaneously charge a single enemy unit from 3 different directions. With practice, you can consistently wipe out entire stacks of quality enemy troops, with 10% or less casualties to your half-stack.

    9.) If playing as Gaul, get two Druid units to stand behind your lines. Set them to chanting and do NOT move them. Set your 4 units of upgraded Foresters to fire at will, and set your 8 units of Chosen Swords (your front line) to war cry, 10 yards before the enemy makes contact. Often the entire enemy stack will insta-rout before any of them make melee contact.

    10.) stand your stack on a bridge, and let them get attacked. Make sure your stack has at least four (4) quality archer units. On the battle map, plug the end of the bridge with a unit, or three units in a 'U' formation. Pack you other foot soldiers behind the 'U'. Set your archers up on your left flank, so that they shoot into the enemys' unshielded right side as they cross the bridge. Enjoy the turkey shoot.

    There are more: dig around in this thread, and see what interests you.

    I hope that helped.
    Last edited by NobleNick; August 26, 2008 at 01:06 PM.

  6. #6
    Entropy Judge's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: I am terrible at battling.

    7.) Hide your forces, except general, in the trees. Let the enemy chase your general a while, to tire them out, then run the general through your lines. As the tired enemy approaches, in disarray, pop your attack on them.
    I think that your guys 'suddenly appearing' also causes a morale hit - I've seen something like "surprised by enemies" when hiding units emerge in front of enemy units.

  7. #7
    NobleNick's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: I am terrible at battling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Entropy Judge View Post
    I think that your guys 'suddenly appearing' also causes a morale hit - I've seen something like "surprised by enemies" when hiding units emerge in front of enemy units.
    Yes. Being surprised by the enemy does cause a morale hit.

  8. #8
    Civis
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    Default Re: I am terrible at battling.

    Simplicity at its best, nice battle tips NNick.. REP.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: I am terrible at battling.

    For bridge battles, i find that it is better to arrange your units to surround a bridge whilst leaving just a little bridgehead for the enemy instead of just sticking one unit right in front of it to hold off the enemy charge.
    If your army has pila or javelins just tell them to hold fire except for the unit the enemy is most likely to charge first (make sure it is your heaviest unit of infantry and the units to either side of it have the best attack value in your army).
    What would happen is that the AI will stupidly charge right into your closest unit whilst ignoring the flankers to either side.
    When the enemy has bunched up, tell the rest of your army to suddenly open fire. In my games of RS, it always decimates the first 2 or 3 units in the enemy mass and insta-routs them whilst making every other unit in the enemy army unhappy about friendly routing units.
    When this is done, tell the two units who are flanking the enemy to charge in and when your units get tired, rotate them by telling the unit behind them to charge whilst the tired unit withdraws. You will always get at least some casualties from doing that but less than if you just kept them fighting.
    Doing this almost always will offer you a win

    Edit
    also works for sieges.
    Last edited by asn; September 02, 2008 at 07:09 AM.

  10. #10
    Amaranth's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: I am terrible at battling.

    Patience is also a key in battles.
    Do not charge all your units at the same time that'll cause your units to stack each other and prevents them attacking the enemy, resulting with unnecessary casualty. And reduces the effeciveness of your units, expecially of the phalanxes.

    Make some of your units supporter (some shock units preferably) and after clashing with enemy, send them to support your battle line in times of need.

    If you're better at commanding cavalary, I'd suggest you to split them in two, send them to left and right side of the enemy lines (but first let your units clash with the enemy) then charge them to their flanks, this will cause a shock on enemy, they'll lose most of the units at the first impact of your cavalary and they'll (%80 chance) rout, if they can not support their units (which is AI suck at).

    I'm not sure if this explains what I actually have in my mind, I hope it does.

    Btw If you're using Scythed Chariots and Elephants, that's a whole different story.
    You can send chairots to the foot enemy without fear, cause infantary afraids of Chariots (for a good reason) they'll morale will down so quickly they usually routs without even fighting properly.

    And for Elephants, send them to break enemy lines but don't let them fight in a too crowded area of the enemy, they may run amok and mess your lines also.
    Last edited by Amaranth; September 02, 2008 at 10:19 AM.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: I am terrible at battling.

    I use a combination of light troops, with 2-4 units of well-trained heavy infantry, that will hold the enemy in place, while my superiority in cavalry(Usually anywhere from 4-6 cavalry units maybe even 7) defeat their cavalry and I can hit their middle or just a weak point in their army from behind. I usually have maybe 1-2 units of skirmishers , usually Balearic Slingers, those guys can do massive damage! One time just playing around, I had them on my wings to hit the enemy cavalry, I think it was just me against some Numidian rebels and they wiped the field clean of those annoying Numidians. Pretty much, you just have to try new stuff out in custom battles.
    What helps too, is just pick some ancient generals and read about them. They can provide you with some good tactics and formations. Hammer and Anvil tactics never really fail.
    I don't know if someone said this already, but pick your terrain. If you see some enemy forces amassing in front of you, back yourself up against a mountain or a hill and make the enemy charge up hill, they usually get exhausted by the time they get there and then you can just charge them or just let them come at you. They usually melt away pretty fast after all that.
    Last edited by pirates_say_arrgg; September 02, 2008 at 02:59 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: I am terrible at battling.

    i dunno if maybe u really are just a terrible general, but as far as I know everybody has that problem with their first RTS game. Once your familiarized with the unique units and tactics of RTW u should b fine. If not, like I said, maybe u are just a bad general.

  13. #13
    Entropy Judge's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: I am terrible at battling.

    Legio_Italica, you really don't need to go back two or three months to find threads to post in.

  14. #14

    Default Re: I am terrible at battling.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumaznguy View Post
    I can't pull off any advanced tactics or battle formations.
    Practice. Go to the 'battle' mode pick two armies and practice.

    I can do okay in smaller scalled battles, but I make a lot of blunders in huge battles.
    Practice. Go to the 'battle' mode pick two armies and practice.

    I do best in defensive battles. Where I just sit and wait for teh enemy to come to me, and all my missile troops cut down their numbers before they reach me.
    What happens when they've shot their load?

    I can do flanking, but only in smaller battles. In bigger battles the enemy usually has multiple reserve lines, which makes my flanking maneuvers high risk and usually ill rewarded.
    Practice. Go to the 'battle' mode pick two armies and practice.

    I rarely use cavalry units except for maybe one or two, beacuse I can't get them to flank properly when I have multiple cavalry units.
    Practice. Go to the 'battle' mode pick two armies and practice.

    I don't know how to properly screen.
    Practice. Go to the 'battle' mode pick two armies and practice.

    Really, it should be rare occasions that you actually have to do this. If you're trying large scale maneuvers within bowshot of the enemy -- you made a boo-boo already. Best bet is to try and get lined up as you're approaching the enemy.

    My most advanced formation which I used with some success was alternating between missile troops and infantry in a semi circle battle line. This made the missile troops more vunerable, but the idea was to allow them maximum space to fire upon the enemy without any friendly fire. Then when the enemy enganged them, any unengaged nearby infantry would flank the enemy. I stopped using it because I found it to much safer to just let my infantry take the losses instead with the missile troops behind so that they take less losses and do maximum damage.
    Practice. Go to the 'battle' mode pick two armies and practice.

    What faction are you using? Although it's not, to my knowledge, programmed this way it would probably help you to find out how the actual army fought their battles. That should give you somewhat of a starting point on how to use your units.

  15. #15

    Default Re: I am terrible at battling.

    Quote Originally Posted by morteduzionism View Post
    Practice. Go to the 'battle' mode pick two armies and practice.


    Practice. Go to the 'battle' mode pick two armies and practice.


    What happens when they've shot their load?


    Practice. Go to the 'battle' mode pick two armies and practice.


    Practice. Go to the 'battle' mode pick two armies and practice.


    Practice. Go to the 'battle' mode pick two armies and practice.

    Really, it should be rare occasions that you actually have to do this. If you're trying large scale maneuvers within bowshot of the enemy -- you made a boo-boo already. Best bet is to try and get lined up as you're approaching the enemy.


    Practice. Go to the 'battle' mode pick two armies and practice.

    What faction are you using? Although it's not, to my knowledge, programmed this way it would probably help you to find out how the actual army fought their battles. That should give you somewhat of a starting point on how to use your units.

    We talkin' bout practice!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUYjD7A75HQ

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