Where are the Jews?

[biohaker]

Why do u have only 4 religions in SS? (Islam, Catholic, Orthodox, Pagan)

Sometimes it's boring the islam - Catholic fight.

Where is Judaism or Buddhism for example?

Were the Mongols Islamists or Buddhists?

I was just wondering if anybody ever problematised with this matter


Thanks for reading.

[delra]

Mongols were of mixed religion and they allowed freedom of it (which is funny cause nowadays many far more civilised countries do not allow it).

Religions you mentioned are covered by "heretic" in the game. SS added one religion, Pagan, when there appeared faction who represent this religion. Since there's no buddhist or judaist faction on the map, there's no point in creating a whole religion.

[\Vazul's Ghost/]

You could do some of the things they are over at Das Heilige Romische REich, and script in a Jewish religion and make buildings available from that religion that affect your income.

[EVYATAR]

what about the
Khazars?
thay can to be jewis Factions, not??

[Cooltosha]

what about the
Khazars?
thay can to be jewis Factions, not??

By the time that SS 6.1 is happening and by the time of the Early Middle Ages, which is in fact from 1054 (the Great Schism of the Holy Mother Church), Khazar Khanate has been completely conquered by Cumans.

Some last remnants of the Khazar Khanate and it's people lingered even at the time of Basileus Basil II (976-1025), and they were destroyed by the very Pecheneg migration that cause them to invade Roman Empire, when Basileus Alexios I (1081-1118) defeated them at the battle of Levunion, using the very Cumans.

The result was that the Khazar Khanate was completely taken by the Cuman Khanate, and they were absorbed and dissappeared as a nation completely.

It is certain that they had some followers of Judaism in their nation, but not enough to make it a state religion, also they were never quite formed as a state.

And Jews were as usual, spread out through entire extent of Imperium Romanum and further, thanks to the further persecutions.......

So, if Judaism should be included in SS 6.1 or later versions (such as 7.0, which I would like to see announced) it should be only as a minor religion with some buildings, such as HRR's "Jewish community" which causes slight discontent within the local population of non-Judaist religion, but greately increases trade and income.

No state was there which had Judaism as it's state religion, therefore, there is no state "to carry" the religion.

[Barser]

as far as I know there cant be added more religions.

[delra]

And I thought there are 9 culture/religion slots.

[Quark]

Well I did advocate adding jewish commuities as buildings to represent that their culture played a very important part in mediaval history, as well as the adding of the jewish religion, but the decison was made not to add such to 6.1. I still have some of the stuff I created, so suppose this would be best done as a sub mod. While at it I would also combine all the pagan temples into one set, as you can give them different names/descriptions, they just get the same picture.

[crsutton]

Why do u have only 4 religions in SS? (Islam, Catholic, Orthodox, Pagan)

Sometimes it's boring the islam - Catholic fight.

Where is Judaism or Buddhism for example?

Were the Mongols Islamists or Buddhists?

I was just wondering if anybody ever problematised with this matter


Thanks for reading.

Well, I think you have to look at the status of Jews in this period. While there were numerous Jews, the populations were dispersed and possesed very little political and no military power. Likewise, the Jewish religion has never had much emphasis on converting non-Jews. If they have any inpact it would be financial and cultural.

[Sarpedon]

Also Buddhism never really had any influence in this part of the world. Plus they have the venerable claim of never spreading their religion through violence or force-oppression related means.

[gewehr36]

Also Buddhism never really had any influence in this part of the world. Plus they have the venerable claim of never spreading their religion through violence or force-oppression related means.

They could have a Buddhist unit that had no attacks and just stood there while the enemies killed them. For a special attack: Light self on fire.

[dopp]

Would be interesting to have to choose between income and religious unrest (due to all the evil 'Jewish Merchants') or religious conformity and a less powerful economy. Maybe the higher level marketplaces could give very high trade boosts but also a respectable Jewish conversion rate. This would not represent 'conversion' per se but more the arrival of Jewish immigrants/refugees to swell the local merchant population. This also means that the player must divert some priests for the home front rather than everything going into an extremely powerful 'god squad' on the front lines.

Anybody remember the Buddhist warrior monks from STW? Those guys were excellent fighters and caused fear in other Buddhist units. Nor are they completely a fantasy unit.

[gewehr36]

Why does everyone have the assumption that economy improves with Judaism?

[dopp]

Why does everyone have the assumption that economy improves with Judaism?

I prefer to think of it as 'attracting foreign investors'.

[Quark]

Actually I had envisioned nobody 'building' jewish commuinities, just there placement within certain historical locations such as York, Worms, Cordoba, Jerusalem, Bagdad etc. There were two levels of commuinity (small and large) and they added to the economy of the settlement because, well historically thats what they did. As to unrest that would only occur within christian areas. When a crusade was on I was thinking the faction could be given the option of 'destroying' the commuinity for some cash and traits, or not for traits (HRE is a fine example of such). Spain would get the option of 'expeling the Jews', which if they chose to do I would have increased the population of say Fez if owned by the Moors.

As said, had some ideas on how to portray what happen in history within game if player choose to act in a certain way.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Quark...

That concept sounds extremely complex and intricate. How difficult would it be to implement that? Speaking from ignorance it sounds like you would have to become a Hermit & forsake the world for an extended period of time. But then again it is a phenominal idea.:hmmm:

[crsutton]

Why does everyone have the assumption that economy improves with Judaism?

Well, the Jews were basically the financiers of the middle ages. Since Catholic doctrine prohibited money lending with interest, Jews provided captial in the form of loans to an age where surplus capital was always in short supply-especially in the early middle ages before Christians discovered that money lending was actually a pretty good idea....

I think it can be said that the avialibilty of Jewish capital helped end the feudal period and jump start the move out of the middle ages. One of many factors. I am the first to admit that I am no expert on this. Anyone else want to chime in?

[delra]

Because that's how those buildings work in Kingdoms. You think they shouldn't?

Anyway, I'm against adding those buildings. Maybe in 1080 Jews were still fine in Europe but after the first crusade they were cruelly persecuted and suffered much harm. Many of their communities were destroyed in France and Germany. England banned them from settling down for 400 years (yes they did!). Jews were accused of ritual murders, using human blood for weird purposes and other nasty things. I remember reading about a guy who persecuted them for human sacrifice. They even blamed Black Death on them. Jews were fleeing towards Arab and Slavic lands where nobody harmed them, that's why there were so many Jews in Poland for example where they actually became a whole new business class of our society. We were simply more tolerant. So were muslims. There was one Ottoman sultan who dispatched his whole fleet to pick up Jews expelled from Spain and bring them to Turkey... Shame on you Western Europe?

Now, getting back to the game from fascinating world of real history: What the player would actually be doing as most of the Christian factions, would be destroying Jewish communities present at the beginning of the game, not building new ones.

If you really have to add Jews, do it for Muslims, Poles, Hungarians and maybe Russians too. Western Europe expelled them at the very beginning of the game period (in a very violent way), same happened in the Balkans and Greece if I recall correctly. So having them there would be pure science-fiction.

[Prankowski]

aren´t jewish already implemented in the "deus lo vult" mod??
i think i saw buildings for them in the mod, not sure if they where in there as a full religion or only as some special buildings.
they add some "percent jewish people" in the city overview as i remember.

[Sarpedon]

Actually, while the Catholic Church did comdemn the idea of lending at interest (with a few small exceptions), 'sin' seems a little strong.

Charging any interest whatsoever is expressly against Islamic law. I am sure these were both used as pretenses for violence against the Jews.