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  1. #1
    Kleos's Avatar Virtute et Armis
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    Default Breed Specific Legislation

    EDIT: Necessary changes for those too simple minded to realise the obvious...


    [SATIRE*]
    *A very common, almost defining feature of satire is its strong vein of irony or sarcasm, but parody, burlesque, exaggeration, juxtaposition, comparison, analogy, and double entendre are all frequently used in satirical speech and writing. The essential point, however, is that "in satire, irony is militant"


    I wanted to use this thread to bring up something that I’m sure most would agree is a common sense idea, namely, Race Specific Legislation. Or in other words: the enacting of legal measures to take action against problem minorities, in the aim of safeguarding the majority. Controversial perhaps, but needed – I'm sure most (if only secretly) overwhelmingly agree.

    Let’s take a look at the statistics (courtesy of the FBI).

    Of the 17,399 murder offenders in the USA in 2006 (the latest year for which extensive data is available) the black race committed 6,843 of the homicides. That’s more than the white population of America managed to clock up. Its also a whopping 39% of the total!







    It must be remembered that blacks only comprise 13.1% of the total US population, so that 39% black offender rate for murder presents a substantially disproportionate offending rate amongst blacks. Some might say that the year was probably a statistical anomaly, and dismiss the figures. For the sake of argument, let’s look at the preceding years as well:
    • 2005: 6,379 Black offenders out of a total of 17,029 (37.4%)
    • 2004:(table 2.5) 5,608 Black offenders out of a total of 15, 935 (35.1%)
    So the pattern is clear: Blacks are more violent that other races if terms of committing murder…they’ve gone from spear throwing historically to gun slinging now with deadly results. But hold on – blacks may very well kill more people than whites, but more murder victims are black than are white, right? Wrong. In both 2004 and 2005, while Blacks managed to out-kill the numerically dominant white race, there were less black murder victims than there were white victims. Only in 2006 were more blacks murdered than whites.

    “Poverty! Poverty! Poverty!” This, the liberals cry, is what causes a higher incidence of crime among the black population, not the fact they happen to be black. Okay…that could explain some things, home invasion, thefts, even murder. A formidable argument…until we get to rape. Feeling poor or downtrodden by society does not make one want to go out and start raping.

    And in rape, blacks are more violent than whites as well.


    (figures represent arrest rates per 100,000 inhabitants of specified population)

    Surprise, surprise: non-whites are more than twice as likely to commit rape than are whites. Hold on...“All other races”? That won’t do – that’s racist. We need the figure for blacks…


    It seems rather apparent that you can take the Blackman out of Africa…but you can’t take the violent savage out of the Black. Obviously these ‘people’ have a genetic tendency to be predisposed towards violence and crime.







    But what can be done? This is where Race Specific Legislation can come in. I’ve thought of five main ways of tackling the problem of this problem race:
    • Registration and Tagging: Make all blacks register with local police authority, force them to wear tags so they can be located if (when) they commit a crime.
    • Warning Signs: On black dominated neighbourhoods signs should be erected that warns outsiders they are in danger
    • Muzzling and Leashing: Prevention is better than cure – by ‘muzzling’ I mean physical checks on their movements; shackles on their hands to allow day to day activity but to prevent utilisation of weapon, ball and chain to slow them down. By ‘leashing’, the idea is to have Blacks escorted by officers of the law in population centres where (statistically proven) less-violent whites reside
    • Compulsory castration for males: Males commit a disproportionate amount of crime in all races, so a simple measure would be to remove the testosterone and hormones that may lead to violence.
    • Outlawing: It certain sensitive areas the decision should be made available to outlaw the presence of blacks full stop – schools, white residential areas, public parks etc.
    Such schemes taken together or alone would work wonders in limiting crime amongst this trouble race….

    [/SATIRE]
    ***************





    …except of course, that it would be illogical, extremely unfair, persecute the innocent and largely unworkable.

    To blame the higher incidence of crime amongst blacks upon such a shady definition as race is –of course- absurd. Poverty does lead to crime, and where poverty doesn’t explain gang culture makes up the difference; and gang culture of course can (and does) occur amongst all population groups. To suggest that special measures should be taken by authorities against a singled out racial group would not, should not, and –thankfully- is not, accepted by the general public. Demeaning labels such as dangerous, genetically violent, and sub human (“people”) is of course to be shouted down.







    But this leads me to the main purpose of the thread. Breed Specific Legislation. Perhaps the most irrational extension of government intrusion into the lives of the individual that is widely accepted by the public at large. The same arguments and patterns as used in the first half of the post is seen in those arguments against specific breeds:
    • Target group focused on for special attention
    • Statistics used in an attempt to justify action against all membersof the target group
    • Argument complimented by unsubstantiated and inflammatory language
    • Actions advised/taken would/has little bearing on the root causes of the problems and often fails to prevent the actions that were being targeted.
    Basically, take the opening post and replace the word Black with the targeted breed, murder and rape with dog attacks and fatalities, and language such as ‘violent race’ and ‘genetically violent’ with ‘dangerous dog’ and ‘bred to be violent’. You have yourself a pro-BSL argument.

    The banning of specific breeds of dogs for a perceived tendency towards violence is devoid of logic. It’s not the breed – it’s the owner. Yes, Pit bulls and Rottweilers are responsible for the most dog attacks, but this does not reflect on the breed. Quite simply, it reflects upon the demographic of owners that is attracted to said breed. To put it mildly – scum. People purchasing ‘hard’ breeds thinking it makes them look big and bad, they want it to make them look big and bad. Walking to heel without a lead, regular exercise, strict discipline and animal socialisation are hardly the top priority of these people. And they get a character of dog that reflects their upbringing.

    All this leaves responsible owners looking bad. Of course, the media couldn’t care less when it jumps on isolated incidents to tar whole breeds with the same brush, and by default all owners are painted as irresponsible.

    And so the authorities act on this misinformation. Outright bans. Compulsory muzzling. Compulsory leashing in all public areas. Forced chipping. Forced castration. Compulsory signs on property. It doesn’t matter if you and your dog haven’t done anything. Tough. But in the same way gun regulations in the US and the relatively recent tightening of handgun laws in the UK, it is not the criminals, not those who are at fault, that are the ones who obey, who are penalised the most. It’s the innocent, the average gun holder, the average pistol sport shooter, and in this case; the average Pit bull, Rottweiler *insert “dangerous” dog* owner that suffers.

    In the UK we have the dangerous dog act which outlaws my favourite breed in terms of temperament and looks - the American Pit Bull. Not to worry I thought, after University is over I'd been aiming to move the US, specifically Texas, so looked forward to getting my own pair of dogs. But recently there seems to be ominous signs considering BSL and Pit Bulls…Google news has four recent stories in Texas alone concerning Pit Bulls, including this laughable opinion peace. Dammit Texas! “The beauty of the hills of Carolina or the sweetness of the grass in Tennessee” are looking more and more tempting.

    As elsewhere, the supporters of BSL in Texas repeat the same nonsense…that these animals are genetically prone to attack, are inherently dangerous, have come from a historically violent background, and the public laps it up. Some non-effective BSL is introduced that gets people and the media off the governments back, and event though it doesn’t deal with the problem, and targets the wrong end of the lead – its widely praised and accepted. People move on to their new cheap cause to make themselves feel good.

    In 2007 there were just 32 fatal dog attacks in the USA. Needless to say, guns, tobacco, and cars 'cause' far more than 32 deaths a year. More children die at the hands of their parents than of their dogs. Breed Specific Legislation is an uncessary attempt at a problem that is overblown. Its the irresponsible owners that need to be targeted.
    'Punish the deed, not the breed.'
    Last edited by Kleos; August 24, 2008 at 04:49 PM. Reason: A way,way, to serious of an overreaction
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  2. #2
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Race Specific Legislation

    no.

    but srlsy.

    no.

    edit: wtf is wrong with you?




  3. #3
    Kleos's Avatar Virtute et Armis
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    Default Re: Race Specific Legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    no.

    but srlsy.

    no.

    edit: wtf is wrong with you?
    Nothing is wrong with me...
    'Nature is indifferent to our love, but never unfaithful'
    'A true conservative must necessarily be a conservationist'
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  4. #4
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Race Specific Legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by Kleos View Post
    Nothing is wrong with me.
    why are you comparing black people to dangerous dogs?




  5. #5
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    Default Re: Race Specific Legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    why are you comparing black people to dangerous dogs?
    I guess you missed:


    …except of course, that it would be illogical, extremely unfair, persecute the innocent and largely unworkable.

    To blame the higher incidence of crime amongst blacks upon such a shady definition as race is –of course- absurd. Poverty does lead to crime, and where poverty doesn’t explain gang culture makes up the difference; and gang culture of course can (and does) occur amongst all population groups. To suggest that special measures should be taken by authorities against a singled out racial group would not, should not, and –thankfully- is not, accepted by the general public. Demeaning labels such as dangerous, genetically violent, and sub human (“people”) is of course to be shouted down.


    What I was comparing was the absurdity of racists who say Blacks are more more violent with the absudity of those who think certain breeds should be banned.
    'Nature is indifferent to our love, but never unfaithful'
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  6. #6
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Race Specific Legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by Kleos View Post
    I guess you missed:

    What I was comparing was the absurdity of racists who say Blacks are more more violent with the absudity of those who think certain breeds should be banned.
    after providing "data" on how blacks are crazy rapists compared to whites?

    wtf is wrong with you?




  7. #7

    Default Re: Race Specific Legislation

    Are you trying to say black rapist? Or is it something else?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Race Specific Legislation

    HG has a point Kleos. wtf, cubed to the power of nine. I get it, but I think the linkage is unfortunate.

    Whatever your intentions, this is, at the very least a disrespectful post. However you think this has been worded, those who care for fellow human beings would be suspicious and racists would find comfort in your phraseology.

    I could take this quote from The Guardian yesterday.

    "Restricted Scotland Yard documents reveal that Britain's child abusers are predominantly white males aged 36 to 45. Almost all have no previous convictions of sexual abuse. Those recently caught include teachers, politicians, accountants, police officers and lawyers. Many are family men who make victims of their own children."

    In your terms, you could advocate the castration all middle aged white men. To ensure safety of children, only black or asian men should be allowed to sire children. If you said that was offensive rubbish you would be right.

    In any case, the effects of Race specific laws have already been observed and found wanting, Jim Crow, Nazi Germany, Apartheid, need we say more.

    As for dogs, it could be argued that they are property so the same principles do not apply.
    Last edited by mongrel; August 24, 2008 at 04:47 PM.
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  9. #9
    Kleos's Avatar Virtute et Armis
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    Default Re: Race Specific Legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    Whatever your intentions this is, at the very least a disrespectful post.
    Something I adress - in the opening post:

    To blame the higher incidence of crime amongst blacks upon such a shady definition as race is –of course- absurd. Poverty does lead to crime, and where poverty doesn’t explain gang culture makes up the difference; and gang culture of course can (and does) occur amongst all population groups. To suggest that special measures should be taken by authorities against a singled out racial group would not, should not, and –thankfully- is not, accepted by the general public. Demeaning labels such as dangerous, genetically violent, and sub human (“people”) is of course to be shouted down.
    In any case, the effects of Race specific laws have already been observed and found wanting, Jim Crow, Nazi Germany, Apartheid, need we say more.
    This is about breed specific legislation!

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    so you hate dog breed legislation so you thought it would be a good idea to include data about how black people rape more violently which makes up about 75% of your post? you must really hate dog breed legislation.

    wtf is wrong with you?
    Is there something you dont understand? The sheer idiocity of the opening half was intended to highlight the idioicty of Breed Specific Legislation. I really cannot believe your reaction.
    Last edited by Kleos; August 24, 2008 at 04:44 PM.
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  10. #10
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Race Specific Legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by Kleos View Post

    Is there something you dont understand? The sheer idiocity of the opening half was intended to highlight the idioicty of Breed Specific Legislation. I really cannot believe your reaction.
    no. just no. you can try to weasel out of it but the majority of your post is just bigotry covered at the end by "satire". you want readers to be convinced of how savage black people are (which you cover with statistics, btw i like the way you defended the black hate rape stats by saying its the FBI not Stormfront!!! Its satire! But still true!!) and then say "people who believe stuff like this should be shouted down even though i provided pseudo-reputable sources!!".

    Just stop.

    EDIT: Needs more editing Kleos to stop it sounding like a big fat racist loser post.
    Last edited by Heinz Guderian; August 24, 2008 at 05:06 PM.




  11. #11
    Kleos's Avatar Virtute et Armis
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    Default Re: Race Specific Legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    no. just no. you can try to weasel out of it but the majority of your post
    Half dealing with Black crime: 651 words. Other Half dealing with Breed Specific Legislation: 792 words
    So no. Not the majority. Roughly half. As I have said.

    (which you cover with statistics, btw i like the way you defended the black hate rape stats by saying its the FBI not Stormfront!!! Its satire! But still true!!)
    I never said they were 'hate' rapes. And again what does the statistics have to do with anything? They are true, regardless if they dont happen to fit inwith your rose tinted world view. On the other hand you could provide stats that show Pit Bulls are responsible for most dog attacks. They would be true. Neither reflects on the charachter of the particular target. Thats is my point, as I have made perfectly clear.

    and then say "people who believe stuff like this should be shouted down even though i provided pseudo-reputable sources!!".
    They are not "pseudo-reputable sources". They are perfectly reliable. But that is besides the point. You or anyone else could provide perfectly reliable sources showing Pit Bulls to be the dog most responsible for attacks.

    Both are meaningless to the underlying causes. As, again, I have made clear.

    EDIT: Needs more editing Kleos to stop it sounding like a big fat racist loser post.
    How pathetic. Report it if you think it is racist.
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  12. #12
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Race Specific Legislation

    A black guy is gonna rape your dog.




  13. #13

    Default Re: Race Specific Legislation

    Sorry Kleos, your reply got in before my edit. I understand the post...but as I said the linkage is unfortunate to say the least.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

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    Default Re: Race Specific Legislation

    I'm more concerned that USA actually had 17,399 murders in 2006...Is there any kind of statistics for how many of those victims were African-American?
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  15. #15
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Race Specific Legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by clandestino View Post
    I'm more concerned that USA actually had 17,399 murders in 2006...Is there any kind of statistics for how many of those victims were African-American?
    Most of the victims were Border Collies and Labradors....wait, you dont want to talk about Dog Breeding Legislation? What would make you think about race and crime? This thread is about Dog Breeding Legislation.




  16. #16
    clandestino's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Race Specific Legislation

    Whatever two ( or more ) adult concenting dogs do in the privacy of their doghous is none of my bussiness nor it should be state's bussiness.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Race Specific Legislation

    I'm reporting your racistish post Kleos. I didn't read it, didn't have to, I felt it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kleos View Post
    In the UK we have the dangerous dog act which outlaws my favourite breed in terms of temperament and looks - the American Pit Bull. Not to worry I thought, after University is over I'd been aiming to move the US, specifically Texas, so looked forward to getting my own pair of dogs.
    Really? What's the appeal of Texas for an Englishman? I'm just curious.

  18. #18
    Kleos's Avatar Virtute et Armis
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    Default Re: Race Specific Legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Really? What's the appeal of Texas for an Englishman? I'm just curious.
    What do you want to hear? What do you want me to say to justify your opinion?
    That I want to join the KKK?
    That I'm a racist redneck?

    The fact is, the intention was to draw out the absurdity of Breed Specific Legislation. Nothing more.

    WTF is wrong with you and your inability to recognize an obvious satire? He even says it in his opening post.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: Race Specific Legislation

    Never seen anyone miss the point so badly, it's almost unbelievable...

    Actually I think it was a good, for some perhaps shocking, comparison of collective guilt. But that's the trend of the easy way, reperssion bans, instead of actual, long term sollutions. Bans never solve anything. There is no such thing as a bad dog, only misstreatment by his "master", little or now socialization and so on...

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  20. #20
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Race Specific Legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by MaximiIian View Post
    WTF is wrong with you and your inability to recognize an obvious satire? He even says it in his opening post.
    he edited it later ...""

    Quote Originally Posted by Belphegor View Post
    Never seen anyone miss the point so badly, it's almost unbelievable...

    .
    wow you havent seen much.




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