Georgia into NATO

[Ahlerich]

Sorry for another Georgia thread but i was watching the news in Germany this morning and one of the topics was Georgia and NATO.
Our chancelor Merkel already said she and germany wants georgia in the nato.
However a poll showed that only 20% of germans are with her on that matter and 50% are against that idea.

now i dont want to discuss in this thread if georgia are the baddies or russia/south ossetia. i just want to hear pro and con arguments of georgia joining the Nato.

i for myself dont think its a good idea.

nato is supposed to be a alliance and used defensively if one of its members is attacked. now georgia spends most of its money on the army and recent events showed that they act quite aggressive.
i dont want to put blame on one side in this thread but everybody has to agree that they did not put much diplomatic effort into solving the independence issue of south ossetia.

now if they join nato i am worried that countries like georgia might provoke wars/conflicts in the future and then nato is pretty much forced to support them. also georgia might get encouraged to act aggressively when they are backed up by such a big brother like nato.
taking this to the next level i think there is a certain risk to create a world war through aggressive nato members. therefore i think countries with a shown military focus are posea risk if invited into a "mainly defensive" pakt.
what would happen if georgia is part of the nato a conflict like the recent caucasus conflict happens again?

what are you guys thoughts on this?

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself - will the Germans, and other Europeans for that matter, stick their neck out and go to war for the sake of Georgia? They're already at war with Islam at the behest of the Bush administration and it's not going down too well with the people there.

now if they join nato i am worried that countries like georgia might provoke wars in the future and then nato is pretty much forced to support them.
taking this to the next level i think there is a certain risk to create a world war through aggressive nato members. therefore i think countries with a shown military focus are a risk if invited into a "mainly defensive" pakt.

Totally agreed.

[Joker85]

Well, Germany was all for admitting Poland into NATO when it was obvious it would piss of Russia. So I have no sympathy for them at all, basically they were all for expanding NATO to move the border away from their own and give their nation a buffer, but now that other countries want to do the same they are suddenly in bed with Russia.

Please.

[Ahlerich]

Well, Germany was all for admitting Poland into NATO when it was obvious it would piss of Russia. So I have no sympathy for them at all, basically they were all for expanding NATO to move the border away from their own and give their nation a buffer, but now that other countries want to do the same they are suddenly in bed with Russia.

Please.

i dont mean this thread to be about germany to begin with, watching the news just inspired me to think about georgia&nato and to create this thread and mention my worries about georgia as a nato member.
poland does not spend most of its money on its military and they dont have a government that would easily pick up weapons and attack somebody. especially non of its neigbours. thats why i am comfortable with poland in nato.
i dont think that many germans feel like we need a puffer zone and wanted poland in nato because of that or that the russian bear will come and bite us. maybe a few old people that suffered from the "old" russia but certainly not the majority.

edit: too bad seems like only few are interested in a real matter that should be discussed. genocide and propaganda topics that are all only about to blame the different nationalities and nationalists defending their nation and attacking the "hostile" nations verbaly and ramble on about it for pages is more exciting i guess. ok lesson learned - "my country is right yours is wrong" and was obamas half brothers sisters nephew uncut topics only are popular in the pit :-( mayme this needs to be moved to the political academy?

btw what the difference between political mudpit and academy?

[Fianóglach]

No way should Georgia be in NATO, not with this loon at their helm. Turkey was a stretch, Georgia is about as non North Atlantic as you can get. Western Governments are going to sell them arms and support them anyways. Better it be under the table support than an actual alliance. Lest we be responsible for the actions of what has already been proven a liability. It's in the NATO charter I belive that no nation can be included in the treaty if they have existing land or border disagreements. Georgia has that x2 and then some.

[wilpuri]

Well, Germany was all for admitting Poland into NATO when it was obvious it would piss of Russia. So I have no sympathy for them at all, basically they were all for expanding NATO to move the border away from their own and give their nation a buffer, but now that other countries want to do the same they are suddenly in bed with Russia.

Please.

It's got to do with Germany's "strategic partnership" with Russia, i.e. energy dependency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream

[Ahlerich]

It's got to do with Germany's "strategic partnership" with Russia, i.e. energy dependency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream

hm but then merkel should have said something like "we ll never let you join nato, georgia"
right ?!? to maintain a good relationship with russia.

[wilpuri]

hm but then merkel should have said something like "we ll never let you join nato, georgia"
right ?!? to maintain a good relationship with russia.

Yeah. What do I know, just throwing it in there.

[Rapax]

Well, Germany was all for admitting Poland into NATO when it was obvious it would piss of Russia. So I have no sympathy for them at all, basically they were all for expanding NATO to move the border away from their own and give their nation a buffer, but now that other countries want to do the same they are suddenly in bed with Russia.

Please.

Germany has been the buffer for 40 years, our country split in the middle, designated a battlefield and nuclear wasteland by all cold war military planners, so excuse us for bringing in our neighbours that had to suffer under soviet leadership just like we did. Georgia on the other hand has all to do with NATO, a country that can't even keep their feet still long enough till they made it in.
Your opinion on this is of course very dear to me, an american who quickly put the georgian flag in his sig like a lemming.

@mikelus:

I am starting to wonder just how unified of a response NATO would have after an attack on a country like Georgia for example? I know what the charter says, but it seems like other agendas (eg, oil) might override those committments.

That might not even matter. The US would be justified in stepping in militarily and with such a strong country at the helm, the others would follow suit. Even if it's the usual 75% US and 25% rest of NATO.

[Joker85]

Germany has been the buffer for 40 years, our country split in the middle, designated a battlefield and nuclear wasteland by all cold war military planners,

Tends to happen when you start a war that kills tens of millions of people.

[Rapax]

Tends to happen when you start a war that kills tens of millions of people.

Aww, that's all you can come up with? Pulling the nazi card? That's cute joker and about as much as I expected from you. Keep feeling sorry for Georgia.

[Joker85]

Aww, that's all you can come up with? Pulling the nazi card? That's cute joker and about as much as I expected from you. Keep feeling sorry for Georgia.

Not pulling any card at all. Your whining post made Germany out to have been the victims because they spent 40 years "divided and occupied", my point is that they brought it on themselves by starting a world war and killing millions of people.

And none of that changes the fact that Germany only decided to lie down with Russia and start caring about upsetting them after they got Poland into NATO. Of course, now that Poland wants to see its eastern neighbor added, all of a sudden you have to be careful about hurting Russian feelings.

Just be honest about it is all, don't try to hide behind all this nonsense about dialogue with Russia and what not. Just say "we got our security, now the rest of you can get ed because you don't matter anyway".

Such a great lead from the rear attitude from a nation that wants to steer the direction of the EU. But, then again, seems like the only time Germany and Russia are not teaming up to screw over weaker European nations is when they are at war with each other.

[Dance the older]

Aww, that's all you can come up with? Pulling the nazi card? That's cute joker and about as much as I expected from you. Keep feeling sorry for Georgia.

I don't agree with pulling out that card, but at the same time, I see that deep down inside, Russians are hurting over the collapse of the Soviet Union, as has been stated by Putin and other pro-Soviet politicians in Russia.

As for the Georgia situation, I support Georgia and the US in that issue, and I am against Russia for it, because I just see it as a tyrannical movement by the Kremlin. The fact they aren't leaving also makes me think so.

When it comes to Russia caring little for NATO and foreign care, I personally would like to say that, one of the factors leading to WW2 had started because somebody "didn't care" what everyone else thought (kind of like what Russia's doing right now). And as for the 10 million people issue, Japan started that war long before Germany.

[motiv-8]

Aww, that's all you can come up with? Pulling the nazi card? That's cute joker and about as much as I expected from you. Keep feeling sorry for Georgia.

Actually he just pointed out a very common fact... I think YOU just pulled Godwin's Law.

[Elzabar]

No, Georgia should not be invited into NATO. Like you stated, that would quite possibly lead to WWIII.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Um, unless I am mistaken Germany and France are staunchly against Georgia entering NATO.

- I am not mistaken. Georgia was not invited to NATO at the Bucharest summit due to opposition led by Germany and France. One might say that Merkel's recent support is somewhat too late.

[Каие]

Um, unless I am mistaken Germany and France are staunchly against Georgia entering NATO.

France withdrew its troops from NATO command, i say they shouldn't have a say until they honour NATO.

[Andrew87]

I'm almost sure no EU country would support Georgia's admission in NATO, not now, not even at the 2008 NATO summit that took place in april when everybody thought that Georgia would recieve the MAP ( Membership Action Plan ).
When they didn't, that's when I saw Putin arrive in Bucharest with a big arrogant smile on his face...

[removeduser_487563287433]

I'm almost sure no EU country would support Georgia's admission in NATO, not now, not even at the 2008 NATO summit that took place in april when everybody thought that Georgia would recieve the MAP ( Membership Action Plan ).
When they didn't, that's when I saw Putin arrive in Bucharest with a big arrogant smile on his face...

What the devil are you talking about? Georgia was promised eventual membership, it just wasn't given an invitation at that time.

[Ahlerich]

I'm almost sure no EU country would support Georgia's admission in NATO, not now, not even at the 2008 NATO summit that took place in april when everybody thought that Georgia would recieve the MAP ( Membership Action Plan ).
When they didn't, that's when I saw Putin arrive in Bucharest with a big arrogant smile on his face...

well lets hope so. i know that in april 7 anto members (germany+france among them) was against georgia entering nato.
thats why i am worried now that merkel sais she wants georgia in nato.
sounds like germany might fall and give in to the usa s wishes. does anybody know what france´s stance to theissue is after this conflict?

May I ask why Georgia is invited to NATO other than to piss off Russia?

i am not sure but it has a nice location. another american base there would be considered sexy by some i guess. in regards to lets say iran or afghanistan