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  1. #1
    Valiant Champion's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Mc Cain is a gun grabber??

    www.gunowners.org
    Feb 2008
    John McCain Is A Liberal Gun Grabber

    by
    Pastor Chuck Baldwin
    As published at NewsWithViews



    The last thing we need is another liberal neocon in the White House. If the Presidency of George W. Bush proved anything, it proved the hazard of electing phony Republican conservatives. At least one is able to clearly see a liberal for what he or she is when they have a "D" behind their name. But put an "R" behind the name and suddenly their liberal, Big-Government, anti-freedom agenda is barely recognized, which makes a liberal Republican much more dangerous than a liberal Democrat.
    Let me say it straight out: a John McCain Presidency would be far worse than a Barack Obama Presidency. With a Democrat in the White House, conservatives and Christians suddenly find their principles and are able to offer resistance. Put a Republican in the Oval Office, however, and those same people become blind, deaf, and dumb to most any principle they profess.
    Nowhere is McCain's chicanery and duplicity more jeopardous than in the area of the right to keep and bear arms. On issues relating to the Second Amendment, John McCain is a disaster! For example, the highly respected Gun Owners of America (GOA) rates McCain with a grade of F-. McCain's failing grade is well deserved.
    John McCain sponsored an amendment to S. 1805 on March 2, 2004 that would outlaw the private sale of firearms at gun shows. According to GOA, the provision would effectively eliminate gun shows, because every member of an organization sponsoring a gun show could be imprisoned if the organization fails to notify each and every "person who attends the special firearms event of the requirements [under the Brady Law]."
    John McCain also sponsored an Incumbent Protection provision to the so-called "Campaign Finance Reform" bill, which severely curtails the ability of outside groups (such as GOA) to communicate the actions of incumbent politicians to members and supporters prior to an election.
    The GOA report of the 106th Congress reveals that out of 15 votes relating to the right to keep and bear arms, Senator John McCain voted favorably only 4 times. Put that into a percentage and McCain's pro-Second Amendment voting record is a pathetic 27%.
    In addition, GOA warns that John McCain supported legislation that would force federal agents to increase efforts in arresting and convicting honest gun owners who may inadvertently violate one of the many federal anti-gun laws, which punish mere technicalities, such as gun possession.
    For example, if John McCain's proposed legislation were to become law, a gun owner who travels with a gun through a school zone or who uses one of the family handguns to go target shooting with a 15-year old could be sent to prison. And a person who uses a gun for self-defense could be sent to prison for a mandatory minimum of five years.
    But there is so much more to the McCain madness.
    Former California State Senator H.L. "Bill" Richardson wrote this about John McCain, "He's [McCain's] proven his dislike for conservatives and would gut us at every opportunity.
    "Why do I say that? Because of three decades of experience as a Republican California Senator and a fifty year activist in the conservative movement. I have first hand, in-their-face experience with elitist RINO's (Republican in Name Only) office holders. They are biblically ignorant, power hungry, status seeking egotists who have no difficulty aiding their liberal Democrat colleagues whenever their arms are politely twisted. The one thing they have in common with liberal Democrats is their dislike for all conservatives, especially those who are Bible-believing. McCain, as president, would stifle the voices of elected Republican leaders and try to legislate the conservative movement out of existence."
    Senator Richardson went on to say that he would in no way vote for John McCain, if indeed McCain is the Republican nominee (which he obviously will be).
    I wonder how many gun owners and other professing pro-freedom Americans have already fallen victim to McCain's phony conservative campaign? Do they not realize that they are giving a rope to the hangman? And that they--conservatives and gun owners--are the ones who McCain will send to the gallows? What is wrong with the American people these days? Have they not been betrayed enough by these phony conservative Republicans?
    For example, President George W. Bush recently nominated Michael Sullivan to be Director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives. Sullivan is one of the nation's most rabid anti-gunners. GOA's Larry Pratt describes Sullivan as being "as anti-gun as Ted Kennedy." Honest gun owners, lawful firearms dealers, and law-abiding gun show operators could have no worse enemy within the federal government than Michael Sullivan. We could expect no worse from Hillary Clinton. And a John McCain Presidency would doubtless give us more of the same.
    Regarding the Second Amendment, the American people have no better friend than Ron Paul. He has a 20-year proven track record of fidelity to the right to keep and bear arms. The GOA rates Congressman Paul with a grade of A+. According to GOA Executive Director Larry Pratt, Ron Paul has been a leader in the fight to defend and restore the Second Amendment. He has sponsored legislation to repeal the following: the Brady law; the requirement to lock up your guns; the law permitting the U.S. to be part of the U.N (which, among other attacks on American freedoms, seeks to ban privately transferred firearms); participation in UNESCO; federal prohibitions on any pilot wishing to carry a handgun to and in his cockpit; and the so-called "assault weapons" ban (prior to its sunsetting in 2004).
    Ron Paul has also sponsored legislation requiring states to treat the concealed carry permit of one state the same as they do that state's driver's license. Dr. Paul also opposes a national ID card, which would be a tool of government to identify gun ownership.
    Gun owners (along with conservatives and Christians of all sorts) should be ashamed of themselves for allowing an angry, gun-grabbing liberal such as John McCain to become the presumptive Republican Presidential nominee, while rejecting the candidacy of one of America's most principled pro-life, pro-Second Amendment, pro-Constitution, and pro-freedom legislators of this generation: Congressman Ron Paul.
    I say again, the last thing we need is another liberal neocon in the White House. John McCain may have an "R" behind his name, but he is just another establishment liberal: one America cannot afford.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Mc Cain is a gun grabber??

    Great source you got there and a Ron Paul fan club to boot. Nothing to see here.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Mc Cain is a gun grabber??

    Apparently Mccains reasonable requirements on gun ownership make him a idiot in the eyes of such organisations.

    Let's just hope they were fascist communist kittens who were on their way to international fascist communist fair.

  4. #4
    SorelusImperion's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Mc Cain is a gun grabber??

    liberal, Big-Government, anti-freedom agenda
    How can a sane person even fit so much BS into one sentence ? Do they come from some mirror-universe ? Even trying to link liberal and freedom-hating should have resulted in major brain-pain
    Where have all the sane people gone ...
    Frederick II of Prussia: "All Religions are equal and good, if only the people that practice them are honest people; and if Turks and heathens came and wanted to live here in this country, we would build them mosques and churches."
    Norge: "Give me a break. Nothing would make you happier than to see the eagle replaced with a crescent."

    Ummon:"enforcing international law will require that the enforcers do not respect it"
    Olmstead v USA:"Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. To declare that in the administration of the criminal law the end justifies the means-to declare that the government may commit crimes in order to secure the conviction of a private criminal-would bring terrible retribution. Against that pernicious doctrine this court should resolutely set its face."








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    When you stand before god you can not say "I was told by others to do this" or that virtue was not convenient at the time

  5. #5
    Valiant Champion's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Mc Cain is a gun grabber??

    Well The NRA flatly says you should vote McCain

    The GOA doesnt really know who to tell you to vote for because both candidates are anti-gun candidates.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Mc Cain is a gun grabber??

    Are these the same people who think that there should be no criminal record or mental health checks regarding gun ownership?

  7. #7
    Valiant Champion's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Mc Cain is a gun grabber??

    In my opinion if you are a free citizen in the united states you should have the freedom to own a gun. The 2nd amendment doesnt say the right of the mentally stable and perfect angel people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

    It says the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. If you are a citizen of the US you have a right to bear arms according to the constitution.

    Criminals will get guns anyways and we could all be labeled mentally ill if we so much as had a prescription for a tranquilizer once in our life. If everyone who ever took a valum couldnt own a gun than only about 20 percent of the people in this country could own one.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Mc Cain is a gun grabber??

    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Champion View Post
    In my opinion if you are a free citizen in the united states you should have the freedom to own a gun. The 2nd amendment doesnt say the right of the mentally stable and perfect angel people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

    It says the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. If you are a citizen of the US you have a right to bear arms according to the constitution.

    Criminals will get guns anyways and we could all be labeled mentally ill if we so much as had a prescription for a tranquilizer once in our life. If everyone who ever took a valum couldnt own a gun than only about 20 percent of the people in this country could own one.
    You obviously don't see the idiocy of relying on a two hundred year old document for today's guidance.

    Yeah, lets give people who have previous criminal records (like for armed assault, robbery, etc.) and mentally insane people guns. They're free citizens, after all!
    Under the patronage of Rhah and brother of eventhorizen.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Mc Cain is a gun grabber??

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    You obviously don't see the idiocy of relying on a two hundred year old document for today's guidance.
    I guess I obviously dont see it either. that document applies just as much today as it did back then.

    but then I guess the bible being a really old document has nothing that applies today either

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    Yeah, lets give people who have previous criminal records (like for armed assault, robbery, etc.) and mentally insane people guns. They're free citizens, after all!
    I dont believe he was advocating giving violent criminals weapons, as they are already stripped of that right. nor did it seem like he was talking about the mentally insane, because those people are require to be locked up by the state. He is saying that the government has no right to judge competence meerly on the fact that not everyone is mentally stable. A good majority of the people you live and work with have some sort of mental issue from to much stress, to depression. Alot of them are also taking mood enhancing drugs? However these people can lead very normal lives, are you suggesting that anyone on some sort of perscription drug should be banned from owning a firearm? Why should we let the government dictate the level of mental incompetence?

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    Default Re: Mc Cain is a gun grabber??

    Quote Originally Posted by scheuch13 View Post
    I guess I obviously dont see it either. that document applies just as much today as it did back then.

    but then I guess the bible being a really old document has nothing that applies today either
    There are certainly many things which the Bible advocates that are absolutely absurd today, yes.

    I dont believe he was advocating giving violent criminals weapons, as they are already stripped of that right. nor did it seem like he was talking about the mentally insane, because those people are require to be locked up by the state. He is saying that the government has no right to judge competence meerly on the fact that not everyone is mentally stable. A good majority of the people you live and work with have some sort of mental issue from to much stress, to depression. Alot of them are also taking mood enhancing drugs? However these people can lead very normal lives, are you suggesting that anyone on some sort of perscription drug should be banned from owning a firearm? Why should we let the government dictate the level of mental incompetence?
    I'm suggesting - and this really should be common sense - that people who have criminal backgrounds or a history of mental ill-health that may cause them to do funny things may not own a firearm.
    Under the patronage of Rhah and brother of eventhorizen.

  11. #11
    Osceola's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Mc Cain is a gun grabber??

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post

    Yeah, lets give people who have previous criminal records (like for armed assault, robbery, etc.) and mentally insane people guns. They're free citizens, after all!
    Thats already illegal Shaun.. so wutchu talkin' bout Willis?

    I'm fairly sure it was illegal in the 1800's too.

    It's McCain's stance on "assault rifles" I'm worried bout. Naturally both candidates are anti-gun, but since McCain is also a bit of a senile, proto-alzheimers, arrogant imbecile, I'm afraid I'll be voting Obama.

    Besides if Obama leaves "assault weapons" alone (banning semi automatic firearms is idiocy) then I really have no problem with his gun control. It's smaller politicians like Dianne Feinstein who have personal vendettas against gun ownership (who has admitted to seeking to completely ban all guns) that we should be worried about.

    And the NRA. I say that while holding my AK.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Mc Cain is a gun grabber??

    I think the problem with some people is that they don't know how to communicate things properly Being a liberal is not anti-freedom. Being a neo-con is certainly not a liberal - though they favor large government spending.

    What I see as the major problem with both candidates is that they don't appear ready to make the changes necessary to pull us out of our monstrous debt. Neither of them are prepared to make any real changes to government spending - both are very similar on those aspects. Perhaps the only way they differ is slightly on foreign policy (Obama is not that much of a dove) and on some social issues. In terms of federal spending, neither candidate has seemed very prepared to re-evaluate the functions of some government programs and departments and see if they are really worth the tax payer's money. I also don't see either admitting they will cut military spending, which is badly needed. We cut more than survive with a 5 or even 10% budget cut. A lot of it goes to wasteful things that aren't even necessary for upkeep. I honestly believe that a lot of these recurrent issues we've been having over the past 40 years could be resolved if we change some methods of government functioning.

    That is what alarms people like me, and probably a big chunk of American voters disillusioned with partisan politics. The only thing has been constant in the past 40 years is continuous increase in federal spending, even under so-called "conservative" leaders.

    On the whole gun issue - I think it is blown way too far out of proportion. I believe in 2nd Amendment rights, but I also don't think America should go back to the Wild West. Guns should only be there for protection of one's self, protection against the government, and for hunting. Some regulation of guns is obviously necessary. I would support background checks on people seeking guns, simply because there's no harm in seeing if you have a criminal record or have a record of psychosis. However, I shouldn't be denied the right to have a weapon because of a history of obsessive-compulsive disorder or depression (which affects almost a third of Americans).
    Last edited by Admiral Piett; August 22, 2008 at 01:24 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Mc Cain is a gun grabber??

    Bush did pass the Patriot Act, that is anti-Liberty and freedom. Police state powers eh...

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Mc Cain is a gun grabber??

    Extremists of all kinds are simply idiots.

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    Valiant Champion's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Mc Cain is a gun grabber??

    Quote Originally Posted by ЯoMe kb8 View Post
    Extremists of all kinds are simply idiots.
    umm... No!!

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    Default Re: Mc Cain is a gun grabber??

    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Champion View Post
    umm... No!!
    You want to show me a good extremist? Even environmentalist, or Human and animal rights extremists are idiots.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Mc Cain is a gun grabber??

    I'm suggesting - and this really should be common sense - that people who have criminal backgrounds or a history of mental ill-health that may cause them to do funny things may not own a firearm.
    Why do you hate criminals and hate crazy people so much that you are willing to deprive them of a fundamental right?

  18. #18
    Valiant Champion's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Mc Cain is a gun grabber??

    I am a good extremists and I am no idiot!! Now a bad extremists might be one.

    But I would say a bad person in general could be called an idiot

    8-|

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    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Mc Cain is a gun grabber??

    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Champion View Post
    I am a good extremists and I am no idiot!! Now a bad extremists might be one.

    But I would say a bad person in general could be called an idiot

    8-|
    So then should a bad extremist deserve to own a gun or what about a bad person or an idiot? Since in your view a bad person is an idiot.

    scheuch13
    I guess I obviously dont see it either. that document applies just as much today as it did back then.

    but then I guess the bible being a really old document has nothing that applies today either
    The great thing about the Constitution is that it is an adaptable document. Simply put it can change with the times since the founders realized that times change and so do the way people think and live.

    With that in mind the 2nd admentment was meant to protect the rights of people to own guns to defend themselves from threats of the time that the document was written and from proposed threats in the future.

    Indian raids, foreign invasions, and tyranny of the government were the threats that led to the 2nd admentment. Realize that the founders had no intention of giving out weapons to the mentally insane and to the criminals.

    The bible on the otherhand cannot really be change and in the minds of many it doesnt apply to todays world unless you consider applying it in a metaphorical way.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Mc Cain is a gun grabber??

    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Champion View Post
    I am a good extremists and I am no idiot!! Now a bad extremists might be one.

    But I would say a bad person in general could be called an idiot

    8-|
    What are you an extremist in?

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