Paradox is beyond what was HOI2.

[Kanaric]

I am expecting a lot more out of HOI3 than what I got out of HOI2.

They either need to improve the non-combat elements of the game greatly or they need to realize that HOI2 isn't a strategy game, but a tactical game, and change the gameplay to fit as such.


If they keep the same formula as the last game I will except more non-combat aspects to the game. Taking elements from Victoria's gameplay and having a multitude of new events to work with. The last game got boring quick if you were not at war and having things like this would resolve that.

If they want to really focus on combat, like they did before, then they need to greatly improve that. The more provinces obviously help but they need more than just "divisions" with brigade attachments. They need specialized units with abilities like river bridging among other things. They need to make it a tactical game, not a strategic game. Panzer General was great at this, it had all kinds of specialized units to make combat more involved and if that is the focus of HOI3 it will need it. It needs more than percentages on die rolls from the environment and unit combinations. I want combat to be far more interesting than what it was. I think with the 10k provinces they promise that they are indeed going this route to make it more like games of the past like Panzer General and others like it that were purely combat focused.

HOI2 by its self is not adequate, I want more and expect more out of a sequel. We didn't get that with EU3 until a few expansions and mods later but with HOI3 I will not buy the game unless it really is MORE at release.

[mike^_^]

They either need to improve the non-combat elements of the game greatly or they need to realize that HOI2 isn't a strategy game, but a tactical game, and change the gameplay to fit as such.

What do you mean a tactical game? I hope you're not suggesting Company of Heroes scale..

Frankly I'm petrified of paradox attempting to make a HOI3. HOI2 has flaws, and could definately use a few things. I don't think they should do WW2. Frankly I think they are pussies, no genocides, no chemical warfare, no terror bombing (this at the very least should be in the game).

Basically you as an adult are not mature enough to deal with real historical fact (in paradox eyes). I know all the legal bs, I really don't care

edit : Apparently I missed the news. Well I don't expect any of the things I mentioned to be included. I do hope Herbert Hinkel is brought back to lead the 3rd reich though.

[vizi]

Each province is more tactical than an entire strategic front. You need to have engineers to build bridge crossings to get tanks over rivers and other things like that.

That is what he means by tactical. You need specialized units. In HoI2 the only time I built brigades was when I was playing as Japan. I just stacked 2 garrison units with artillery on my key islands to defend it. The other time was garrisons with MP brigades to deal with partisan activity...only if it was really hurting my TC...because frankly they never really rebelled...

[Kanaric]

What do you mean a tactical game? I hope you're not suggesting Company of Heroes scale..

They can use the standard world map just they need to stop pretending that its a strategic game. It is a tactical game already.... unless you consider arbitrarily building IC and Supply units that you never see "strategy".

Each province is more tactical than an entire strategic front. You need to have engineers to build bridge crossings to get tanks over rivers and other things like that.

That is exactly what I mean.

The game is combat focused as it is, I just want more "tactics" rather than just adding brigades that add numbers to a unit that affect its combat rating. Like the engineer improved defense and movement of a unit its equipped on in HOI2 vanilla, I want something more than that.

Why not build some quick barbed wire and trenches with your divisions? Have it represented on the map as well (since it should have better graphics) and PERMANENT in that location, not a defensive value that goes away when you move. Build dragons teeth so that tanks can't move through so easily slowing their movement even in territory with high infrastructure for example rather than just "fortifications" listed as a number of strength. There is a lot that can be done tactically in this type of game, especially with 10k provinces.



This is an example of what i'm talking about, on this map the player could have actually built those trench positions, there are also other type of defenses in this.

They could also add the ability to destroy bridges over rivers so that heavy units CANT go past. Rather than doing bombardment that simply damages infrastructure.

Like on this game how the city is surrounded by bridges, lets say the enemies were on the other side of the river, you could demolish the bridges and more easily defend the city... they would have to find another way around or bridge it themselves.

I'm not necessarily talking about changing from the world map and provinces idea, I like that, i'm just trying to say what more can be done to enhance what is already promised.



This game was the same idea where units represented divisions except it was on a much more of a close in scale, which I assume is what 10k provinces will provide.

edit: apparently my example of defenses screenshot from the game went away. But i'm sure you get the idea.

[Kanaric]

In the game you could even load land units into a land transport for quick movement to the front rather than having them to rely on walking or building them as mech inf. from the start.



I want to see that in HOI3 as well.



On HOI3 you should even be able to move troops with rail if possible.

[mike^_^]

The AI has to be able to work within that same system though (to a degree)

Play HOI2 again with nofog, the AI basically just issues continous, random orders.

That's one of the reasons why it works pretty good I think, because most everything is abstracted and relatively straight-foward , throw some of the more complicated dynamic stuff in, especially in regards to navigating the map and combat/movement, I can't see the game working all to well without a VASTLY improved AI

[vizi]

They have over a year to script a decent AI.

[Town Watch]

gah I dunno about that, I mean surely the lack of bridges resulted in huge slowdowns during barbarossa but... I dunno...

-So many other things to fix first, somewhat decent A.I.

-lots of ppl have been demanding more detailed production model, not just the regular run of the mill- IC which can instantaneously be switched into producing something else. Choice between keeping the older panzer production line or starting a newer one, which wouldnt start rolling immediately...

-specialized divisions; where you could use different kinds of regiments to forms divisions into a more specialized role. More antitank for example. NOT some "epic fail" type brigading system where the brigades are more of a liability timewise and resourcewise when compared to regular divisions.

[vizi]

I do not know where it was said but in one of the threads on the forum they were talking about how the map would be sub-divided. Someone said that if it was like HoI2, 4 province sectors, there would be 2500 of those sectors. However someone said that it would be indvidual provinces grouped in large regions and the IC would be located in the region...which sounds a lot like Vicky...supposedly Johan said that...I might have to troll around for that info.