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  1. #1
    Protector Domesticus
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    Default 12,000 more US troops for Afghanistan

    Looks like the strategic reserve of forces built up from units withdrawn from Iraq since the Surge began are going to be earmarked for Afghanistan now.

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    Pentagon Plans to Send More Than 12,000 Additional Troops to Afghanistan

    The U.S. commander there, in an exclusive interview, calls for a further buildup to counter the Taliban

    By Anna Mulrine
    Posted August 19, 2008

    The Pentagon will be sending 12,000 to 15,000 additional U.S. troops to Afghanistan, possibly as soon as the end of this year, with planning underway for a further force buildup in 2009.

    A request by Gen. David McKiernan, the commander of NATO forces in Afghanistan, for three U.S. brigades with support staff has been approved. "Now that means we just need to figure out a way to get them there," adds a senior defense official.

    The troops are slated to arrive earlier than has been previously discussed, on the heels of the deadliest months for American forces in Afghanistan since the war began.

    The first wave of soldiers will be a U.S. Army brigade from the 10th Mountain Division, according to a senior military official. This brigade is scheduled to ship out between November and January, while two other brigades are likely to arrive "sometime in the spring or summer of next year," the official adds.

    And there may be even more to come. "I've also asked for some additional forces on top of that for the current fight," says McKiernan, who wants to bolster the 101st Airborne Division in Regional Command East, which has been rocked by recent insurgent attacks. In July, nine U.S. troops were killed by insurgents who overran a combat outpost on the Kunar border of eastern Afghanistan. This week, militants tried but failed to overrun a base in Khost, just a few miles from the border, launching waves of attacks just before midnight on Monday.

    Finding those particular troops to supplement the 101st, however, depends on conditions and troop levels in Iraq, adds McKiernan, who took over the NATO command in June. "That's really a zero-sum decision."

    He disputes the notion that the three brigades on the way represent a troop "surge" for Afghanistan, predicting the need for an extended involvement of a larger force. "I've certainly said that we need more security capabilities," he says. "But I would not use the term 'surge,' because I think we need a sustained presence."

    Both major U.S. presidential candidates have called for putting a greater military emphasis on Afghanistan, and it now appears that whoever wins the election will inherit a growing war already underway.

    In March, 3,500 troops from the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit arrived to bolster NATO forces. Originally slated to return to the U.S. in October, they have seen their tour extended by one month.

    The three additional brigades would considerably increase the U.S. force presence in Afghanistan, which currently stands at 34,000. Of these, 15,000 U.S. troops are under NATO command, while an additional 19,000 operate independently, primarily in the volatile eastern border region.

    There has been growing concern that there are too few NATO troops to take on an emboldened Taliban. In some cases, the warlords directing attacks on American forces are the same ones the CIA backed in the 1980s when they fought Soviet troops occupying Afghanistan.

    Some U.S. military officials express skepticism, however, about the impact more U.S. troops can make seven years into the war, in a large country that has grown increasingly violent—with citizens, they add, who are increasingly disillusioned. "I don't know if it's too late," says a senior military official. "But it's going to be much, much harder to turn things around at this point."

    U.S. military officials are particularly concerned about the sharp spike in roadside bombs, up "30 to 40 percent" over last year, says McKiernan. "It's the largest casualty-producing event in Afghanistan."

    Causing that spike is what McKiernan describes as the "deteriorating condition" of the ungoverned tribal areas of Pakistan, with a porous border that facilitates the planting of such bombs.

    Clearing up ungoverned lands rife with insurgents in Pakistan, McKiernan says, is pivotal to improving security in Afghanistan. "We have a cross-border firing incident out of Pakistan almost daily, and unfortunately those aren't diminishing," he adds. "There are militant sanctuaries in Pakistan, and they operate at will."

  2. #2
    s.rwitt's Avatar Shamb Conspiracy Member
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    Default Re: 12,000 more US troops for Afghanistan

    They need to hurry up and just make Afghanistan a Marine Corps mission and stop pussy footing around. Have you heard anything about that? Last I heard they were considering it but there wasn't any evidence that they would go through with it.

  3. #3

    Default Re: 12,000 more US troops for Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by s.rwitt View Post
    They need to hurry up and just make Afghanistan a Marine Corps mission and stop pussy footing around. Have you heard anything about that? Last I heard they were considering it but there wasn't any evidence that they would go through with it.
    Yes. So much yes.

  4. #4
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: 12,000 more US troops for Afghanistan

    Good where they should be.
    according to exarch I am like
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

    Simple truths
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    Did you know being born into wealth or marrying into wealth really shows you never did anything to earn it?
    btw having a sig telling people not to report you is hilarious.

  5. #5
    Scar Face's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: 12,000 more US troops for Afghanistan

    Finally, we shall see some success.

  6. #6

    Default Re: 12,000 more US troops for Afghanistan

    Not sure how much it helps as long as the Pakistan issue remains. You could put 1 million troops in Afghanistan and it wont matter unless they are going to stay there forever. Until Pakistan is somehow capable handling the western region of their country OR NATO/US decides border or no border has to be dealt with (boy our Russian posters would love that one eh? but hey we can just use their justification!). Of course that end is impossible given it would make the problem even worse long term. Funny Obama talk about how Mccain wants 100 year war in Iraq...its actually Afghanistan that will require long unopened timetabl like that.

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    Scar Face's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: 12,000 more US troops for Afghanistan

    I agree that Afghanistan will be a long lasting mission, but I disagree that the Taliban even needs to be defeated in Pakistan to ensure enough stability so we can leave. Thus far, we are bleeding the Taliban dry. With enough military presence, with enough casualties, with enough public opinion turning against them, it doesn't matter if they manage to continue launching attacks from Pakistan. We can neutralize their effectiveness in other ways. Harder than reducing the resistance to a manageable level, is ensuring general political stability both in the long and short term, which doesn't necessarily require troops to do. We just have to find a strong political figure, and a system that works.

    Easier said than done of course.

  8. #8

    Default Re: 12,000 more US troops for Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Scar Face View Post
    I agree that Afghanistan will be a long lasting mission, but I disagree that the Taliban even needs to be defeated in Pakistan to ensure enough stability so we can leave. Thus far, we are bleeding the Taliban dry. With enough military presence, with enough casualties, with enough public opinion turning against them, it doesn't matter if they manage to continue launching attacks from Pakistan. We can neutralize their effectiveness in other ways. Harder than reducing the resistance to a manageable level, is ensuring general political stability both in the long and short terms, which doesn't necessarily require troops to do. We just have to find a strong political figure, and a system that works.
    Problem is I question the endurance to do so. 10 French troops die and you see people crying how they shouldnt be there to begin with...what if Taliban get lucky one time with their suicidal base attacks and kill 50, 100 soldiers? I dont trust us to stick it out to achieve what you say...though I do agree with you basically.

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    Scar Face's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: 12,000 more US troops for Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    Problem is I question the endurance to do so. 10 French troops die and you see people crying how they shouldnt be there to begin with...what if Taliban get lucky one time with their suicidal base attacks and kill 50, 100 soldiers? I dont trust us to stick it out to achieve what you say...though I do agree with you basically.
    Yeah, your right. The West has grown soft, a few people die and suddenly its a travesty. It's war dammit, a few people dieing should be celebrated, simply on the basis that its not a few hundred.

  10. #10

    Default Re: 12,000 more US troops for Afghanistan

    Oh goody... send more American soldiers to another lost cause.

  11. #11

    Default Re: 12,000 more US troops for Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by HunterKYA View Post
    Oh goody... send more American soldiers to another lost cause.
    Such an convincing argument....

    I trust that we will, unlike Iraq we have two flaming towers to remember and the memory of those two will drive us.
    It isnt just us in Afghanistan though and other members leaving can cause a rather big crack. Even Afghanistan isnt popular in places like France and Germany so tolerance for such open ended engagements isnt going to be quite low.

  12. #12
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: 12,000 more US troops for Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    Such an convincing argument....



    It isnt just us in Afghanistan though and other members leaving can cause a rather big crack. Even Afghanistan isnt popular in places like France and Germany so tolerance for such open ended engagements isnt going to be quite low.
    Oh them. Sorry I thought you meant for us.

    Scar face a few peolpes death should be mourned, fallowed by a promise to avenge their deaths.
    according to exarch I am like
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

    Simple truths
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Did you know being born into wealth or marrying into wealth really shows you never did anything to earn it?
    btw having a sig telling people not to report you is hilarious.

  13. #13
    Scar Face's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: 12,000 more US troops for Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiljan Arslan View Post
    Oh them. Sorry I thought you meant for us.

    Scar face a few peolpes death should be mourned, fallowed by a promise to avenge their deaths.
    Mate, I didn't mean we should actually celebrate "Oh yeah, Major ____ died, always hated that bastard". I meant its a good sign, an optimistic sign, when we can enter a prolonged asymmetrical engagement and have as few casualties as we do, even more so compared to just a few decades ago. People have lost perspective.

  14. #14
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: 12,000 more US troops for Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Scar Face View Post
    Mate, I didn't mean we should actually celebrate "Oh yeah, Major ____ died, always hated that bastard". I meant its a good sign, an optimistic sign, when we can enter a prolonged asymmetrical engagement and have as few casualties as we do, even more so compared to just a few decades ago. People have lost perspective.
    No I was saying we moun the deaths of those who die, but then promise to avenge their deaths.
    according to exarch I am like
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

    Simple truths
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Did you know being born into wealth or marrying into wealth really shows you never did anything to earn it?
    btw having a sig telling people not to report you is hilarious.

  15. #15
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: 12,000 more US troops for Afghanistan

    I trust that we will, unlike Iraq we have two flaming towers to remember and the memory of those two will drive us.

    Afghanistan is in no way a lost cause KYA!
    according to exarch I am like
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

    Simple truths
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Did you know being born into wealth or marrying into wealth really shows you never did anything to earn it?
    btw having a sig telling people not to report you is hilarious.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: 12,000 more US troops for Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiljan Arslan View Post
    I trust that we will, unlike Iraq we have two flaming towers to remember and the memory of those two will drive us.
    Those responsible hide in caves much closer to your homes...

  17. #17
    ReBeLLioN's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: 12,000 more US troops for Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Platon View Post
    Those responsible hide in caves much closer to your homes...
    YOUR RIGHT! We all know the real enemy here..... HOBO's
    “What is a rebel? A man who says no” Albert Camus

    “(Pain) removes the veil; it plants the flag of truth within the fortress of a rebel soul” C.S. Lewis

    “A little rebellion now and then... is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government.” Thomas Jefferson

  18. #18
    s.rwitt's Avatar Shamb Conspiracy Member
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    Default Re: 12,000 more US troops for Afghanistan

    Oh goody... send more American soldiers to another lost cause.
    Yeah, any war not totally and completely won in 5 years or less is officially a lost cause.

  19. #19

    Default Re: 12,000 more US troops for Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by s.rwitt View Post
    Yeah, any war not totally and completely won in 5 years or less is officially a lost cause.
    Wars are only successful when the enemy fights like Total War computer AI, over in 30 seconds and they just sit there to be mowed down

  20. #20
    Centurion-Lucius-Vorenus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: 12,000 more US troops for Afghanistan

    Don't know how much good it will do if the Pakistani border isn't brought under control.

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