A couple tactical questions for 6.1

**Sullio** · August 19, 2008, 02:36 PM

Though I suppose they are valid for any version or mod of m2tw...

1. Does the wedge formation provide any real advantage for cavalry? From my somewhat limited experience, it seems like a regular box formation carries a more devastating charge, and that routing one or two units in the front line of the enemy army has more of an effect than splitting their line and running the risk of tying up your cavalry in melee.

2. What purpose do billmen really serve? Especially in SS6.1, they seem rather weak. They're obviously not supposed to be the shock infantry that JHI or DEK are, yet they're not as good at defending against cavalry as spearmen, and they can't counterattack cavalry as effective as other cavalry, so are they supposed to serve some other purpose?

Thanks in advance!

**Busta** · August 19, 2008, 03:01 PM

Wedge formation allows to break through thin enemy lines. Once youve broken through change to standard formation and charge at the backs of your opponent. Do not use wedge to charge and dont maneuvre too much, as the cavalry unit will reform before changing direction (= makes it slow and vulnerable)

This is theory so far. IMO wedge is useless in this game.

**Barser** · August 19, 2008, 03:05 PM

yes wedge is useless. I would like if they had some charge bonus or something in wedge.

**delra** · August 19, 2008, 03:11 PM

Both wedge and billmen are useless.

**Sullio** · August 19, 2008, 03:25 PM

Well, I guess my suspicions were true. Thanks for the replies!

**Marcus Fulvius** · August 22, 2008, 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by delra

Both wedge and billmen are useless.

ill agree wedge is useless... billmen however.

billmen are very useful on occasion.

they arent frontline defensive units like spearmen... they cant take a cavalry charge. but... if you use them to hit horsemen already engaged from the flanks or rear.

if they arent being targeted, those billmen can wipe out a cavalry unit faster than anything else in the game, except for a a bombard that gets a lucky hit dead center in the formation.

but yea... like alot of english specialty units (dismounted english knights for example) billmen are designed to be used as flanking units... able to inflict ALOT of damage, but not being able to take any.

**delra** · August 19, 2008, 03:29 PM

Really, you're better off using stakes in front of your archers than billmen...

**hellas1** · August 19, 2008, 08:45 PM

Hi all,

King Kong and SS crew, PLEASE make the wedge formation and billmen useful.

Thank you,
hellas1

Stainless Steel IS Awesome.

**Barser** · August 19, 2008, 08:48 PM

okay..
No really I wouldnt know where to look but it cant be that hard to give wedge formation some kind of sweet bonus.

**Nightbringer** · August 20, 2008, 02:01 AM

billmen are good as cheap infantry, that are effective against peasants!!!
The wedge is very usful when combined with a lever to lift heavy objects

**dopp** · August 20, 2008, 02:10 AM

Wedge formation is hardcoded I think, so nothing can be down about it.

Billmen could be given the light_spear attribute to resist cavalry, but they would then be -4 defense skill versus infantry. Not a big deal since they have like 1 defense skill anyway.

**Zendjir** · August 20, 2008, 06:17 AM

Billmen should be used as flankers; pin the enemy down with your spears and DFK's and then use the billmen to attack from the flank or rear.

**Gorrrrrn** · August 20, 2008, 06:24 AM

The AI certainly likes using wedge with its cavalry against my cavalry units.

billmen - yes at best cheap counter-attacking units - you don't use them to hold the line unless they have heavy armour. In english roster should be cut to 2 units (1 heavy, 1 light) and replaced by halberds (again 1 heavy, 1 light)

**Vasquez** · August 22, 2008, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Rozanov

The AI certainly likes using wedge with its cavalry against my cavalry units.

billmen - yes at best cheap counter-attacking units - you don't use them to hold the line unless they have heavy armour. In english roster should be cut to 2 units (1 heavy, 1 light) and replaced by halberds (again 1 heavy, 1 light)

I like that idea. More use of Halberds please.

**delra** · August 22, 2008, 06:25 AM

I think that spear militia can do the job you're describing...

**Point Blank** · August 22, 2008, 06:36 AM

Billmen are AP. That is a huge advantage over other infantry types when going up against armored cavalry. Versus armored infantry they can usually cause more damage (in cost terms) than they sustain.

Wedge appears to be the best formation to use when charging other cavalry head-on.