Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 66

Thread: Article about Western hypocrisy

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1

    Default Article about Western hypocrisy

    Is Not Western
    Hypocrisy Astonishing?
    By Patrick J. Buchanan
    8-16-8Mikheil Saakashvili's decision to use the opening of the Olympic Games to cover Georgia's invasion of its breakaway province of South Ossetia must rank in stupidity with Gamal Abdel-Nasser's decision to close the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships.

    Nasser's blunder cost him the Sinai in the Six-Day War. Saakashvili's blunder probably means permanent loss of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

    After shelling and attacking what he claims is his own country, killing scores of his own Ossetian citizens and sending tens of thousands fleeing into Russia, Saakashvili's army was whipped back into Georgia in 48 hours.

    Vladimir Putin took the opportunity to kick the Georgian army out of Abkhazia, as well, to bomb Tbilisi and to seize Gori, birthplace of Stalin.

    Reveling in his status as an intimate of George Bush, Dick Cheney and John McCain, and America's lone democratic ally in the Caucasus, Saakashvili thought he could get away with a lightning coup and present the world with a fait accompli. Mikheil did not reckon on the rage or resolve of the Bear. American charges of Russian aggression ring hollow.

    Georgia started this fight * Russia finished it. People who start wars don't get to decide how and when they end.

    Russia's response was "disproportionate" and "brutal," wailed Bush. True. But did we not authorize Israel to bomb Lebanon for 35 days in response to a border skirmish where several Israel soldiers were killed and two captured? Was that not many times more "disproportionate"?

    Russia has invaded a sovereign country, railed Bush. But did not the United States bomb Serbia for 78 days and invade to force it to surrender a province, Kosovo, to which Serbia had a far greater historic claim than Georgia had to Abkhazia or South Ossetia, both of which prefer Moscow to Tbilisi?

    Is not Western hypocrisy astonishing?

    When the Soviet Union broke into 15 nations, we celebrated. When Slovenia, Croatia, Macedonia, Bosnia, Montenegro and Kosovo broke from Serbia, we rejoiced. Why, then, the indignation when two provinces, whose peoples are ethnically separate from Georgians and who fought for their independence, should succeed in breaking away?

    Are secessions and the dissolution of nations laudable only when they advance the agenda of the neocons, many of whom viscerally detest Russia? That Putin took the occasion of Saakashvili's provocative and stupid stunt to administer an extra dose of punishment is undeniable. But is not Russian anger understandable?

    For years the West has rubbed Russia's nose in her Cold War defeat and treated her like Weimar Germany.When Moscow pulled the Red Army out of Europe, closed its bases in Cuba, dissolved the evil empire, let the Soviet Union break up into 15 states, and sought friendship and alliance with the United States, what did we do?

    American carpetbaggers colluded with Muscovite Scalawags to loot the Russian nation. Breaking a pledge to Mikhail Gorbachev, we moved our military alliance into Eastern Europe, then onto Russia's doorstep. Six Warsaw Pact nations and three former republics of the Soviet Union are now NATO members.

    Bush, Cheney and McCain have pushed to bring Ukraine and Georgia into NATO. This would require the United States to go to war with Russia over Stalin's birthplace and who has sovereignty over the Crimean Peninsula and Sebastopol, traditional home of Russia's Black Sea fleet. When did these become U.S. vital interests, justifying war with Russia?

    The United States unilaterally abrogated the Anti-Ballistic Missile treaty because our technology was superior, then planned to site anti-missile defenses in Poland and the Czech Republic to defend against Iranian missiles, though Iran has no ICBMs and no atomic bombs.

    A Russian counter-offer to have us together put an anti-missile system in Azerbaijan was rejected out of hand. We built a Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline from Azerbaijan through Georgia to Turkey to cut Russia out. Then we helped dump over regimes friendly to Moscow with democratic "revolutions" in Ukraine and Georgia, and tried to repeat it in Belarus.

    Americans have many fine qualities. A capacity to see ourselves as others see us is not high among them.

    Imagine a world that never knew Ronald Reagan, where Europe had opted out of the Cold War after Moscow installed those SS-20 missiles east of the Elbe. And Europe had abandoned NATO, told us to go home and become subservient to Moscow.

    How would we have reacted if Moscow had brought Western Europe into the Warsaw Pact, established bases in Mexico and Panama, put missile defense radars and rockets in Cuba, and joined with China to build pipelines to transfer Mexican and Venezuelan oil to Pacific ports for shipment to Asia? And cut us out?

    If there were Russian and Chinese advisers training Latin American armies, the way we are in the former Soviet republics, how would we react? Would we look with bemusement on such Russian behavior?

    For a decade, some of us have warned about the folly of getting into Russia's space and getting into Russia's face. The chickens of democratic imperialism have now come home to roost * in Tbilisi. Copyright © 2008 Creators Syndicate
    It pretty sums up the reason why the west should not use moral justification to say why other nations should not be doing certain things.


    http://www.rense.com/general83/wsyst.htm


    It seems to me the ONLY way many americans politicians and some of thier supporters are happy, it for former cold war foes to collaspe into a third world nation to be happy, ensuring their people have no chance to live a decent life just because they don't want to be lapdogs to the US.
    Last edited by ray243; August 19, 2008 at 07:37 AM.

  2. #2
    Spamostoc's Avatar Decanus
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Never, never land
    Posts
    503

    Default Re: Article about Western hypocrisy

    I tried to read it but the text size was a killer.

    Did you just realize that morals are subjective? As long as people exist they will make up whatever reason they want, whether they are Russian/Georgian/American etc.
    ಠ_ಠ Oh hai

  3. #3

    Default Re: Article about Western hypocrisy

    Quote Originally Posted by Spamostoc View Post
    I tried to read it but the text size was a killer.

    Did you just realize that morals are subjective? As long as people exist they will make up whatever reason they want, whether they are Russian/Georgian/American etc.
    The down side is, many people FAIL to realise that fact...hence applying a double standard to any country that ISN'T part of the allies( read vassal state, given that only ally that the US wants to have is to have a vassal state that will follow everything the US do)


    And I have edited the text.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Article about Western hypocrisy

    Quote Originally Posted by ray243 View Post
    The down side is, many people FAIL to realise that fact...hence applying a double standard to any country that ISN'T part of the allies( read vassal state, given that only ally that the US wants to have is to have a vassal state that will follow everything the US do)
    Yeah all we want are vassal states like Canada, France, Germany etc...you know countries that basically told us (and rightfully) to piss off with Iraq.

    That is self-evident. The question is what gives America the right to invade other countries when Russia can't? America isn't even protecting it's citizens, like Russia was. Surely you should put your own people first.
    Actually the excuse for Iraq was indeed to protect americans and others from those nasty WMD...which is probably about as legitimate reason as the Russians protecting theirs in South Ossetia...which is to say not at all. Besides your question is distorted, it should be does ANYONE have the right to invade another country for dubious reasons....the answer is NO with US and Iraq and NO with Russia and Georgia.
    Last edited by danzig; August 19, 2008 at 09:45 PM.

  5. #5
    craziii's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    4,247

    Default Re: Article about Western hypocrisy

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    it should be does ANYONE have the right to invade another country for dubious reasons....the answer is NO with US and Iraq and NO with Russia and Georgia.
    HEAR HEAR!!! the most sensible thing you have said so far man, without any bias.
    fear is helluva drug
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    “The only rule that ever made sense to me I learned from a history, not an economics, professor at Wharton. "Fear," he used to say, "fear is the most valuable commodity in the universe." That blew me away. "Turn on the TV," he'd say. "What are you seeing? People selling their products? No. People selling the fear of you having to live without their products." freakin' A, was he right. Fear of aging, fear of loneliness, fear of poverty, fear of failure. Fear is the most basic emotion we have. Fear is primal. Fear sells.” WWZ

    Have you had your daily dose of fear yet? craziii
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  6. #6
    Copperknickers II's Avatar quaeri, si sapis
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    The Carpathian Forests (formerly Scotlland)
    Posts
    12,641

    Default Re: Article about Western hypocrisy

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    Actually the excuse for Iraq was indeed to protect americans and others from those nasty WMD...which is probably about as legitimate reason as the Russians protecting theirs in South Ossetia...which is to say not at all. Besides your question is distorted, it should be does ANYONE have the right to invade another country for dubious reasons....the answer is NO with US and Iraq and NO with Russia and Georgia.
    The WMD didnt exist, whereas 70% of south ossetians hold russian passports. So really america went to war for no reason, coughoilcoughcough.
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

  7. #7

    Default Re: Article about Western hypocrisy

    Quote Originally Posted by Copperknickers View Post
    The WMD didnt exist, whereas 70% of south ossetians hold russian passports. So really america went to war for no reason, coughoilcoughcough.
    That isnt justification for entering Georgia itself though, Russia had reason to drive/demand the Georgians out of South Ossetia *maybe* but since when is citizenship in a foreign country reason for war? So if a couple of Russians got killed in NYC for some reason would Russia invade the US?

  8. #8
    Valentin the II's Avatar Primicerius
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Ashkelon, Israel
    Posts
    3,944

    Default Re: Article about Western hypocrisy

    To true.
    It seems that the age of empires is not over yet.
    Born to be wild - live to outgrow it (Lao Tzu)
    Someday you will die and somehow something's going to steal your carbon
    In contrast to the efforts of tiny Israel to make contributions to the world so as to better mankind, one has to ask what have those who have strived to eliminate Israel from the face of the earth done other than to create hate and bloodshed.

  9. #9
    .......................
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    33,982

    Default Re: Article about Western hypocrisy

    Nice article, It oversimplifies things a bit, but its overall message is true. Also must be noted Russia also shows hypocrisy. Against Kosovan, Chenchnyan and Dagestan, and North Ossetian breakaway, but supports breakaway in Georgia. No one is innocent. East or West.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Article about Western hypocrisy

    Quote Originally Posted by ЯoMe kb8 View Post
    Nice article, It oversimplifies things a bit, but its overall message is true. Also must be noted Russia also shows hypocrisy. Against Kosovan, Chenchnyan and Dagestan, and North Ossetian breakaway, but supports breakaway in Georgia. No one is innocent. East or West.
    I mean look at this board, and you can see how many members love to see the world in black and white, where the 'west' equals to the forces of good, and other place = forces of evil.


    At least have the decency to call your side, YOUR force as compared to you being good or bad.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Article about Western hypocrisy

    Quote Originally Posted by ray243 View Post
    I mean look at this board, and you can see how many members love to see the world in black and white, where the 'west' equals to the forces of good, and other place = forces of evil.


    At least have the decency to call your side, YOUR force as compared to you being good or bad.
    This is why it is urgent for us to elect Obama. Her sees the world as a community of nations, and not in the black and white manner of the wrinkled, white-haired guy. I mean really, if McCain was President right now we would probably already be landing troops and fighting Russia, over a country that surely isn't worth it from the American point of view.

    We do not need, nor can we survive, another cowboy President who thinks force first, because we are god almighty Americans and well, we can.
    "oooh a gypsy wind is blowing warm tonight, sky is starlit and the time is right. Now you're telling me you have to go...before you do there's something you should know." - Bob Seger

    Freedom is the distance between church and state.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Article about Western hypocrisy

    Quote Originally Posted by ЯoMe kb8 View Post
    Nice article, It oversimplifies things a bit, but its overall message is true. Also must be noted Russia also shows hypocrisy. Against Kosovan, Chenchnyan and Dagestan, and North Ossetian breakaway, but supports breakaway in Georgia. No one is innocent. East or West.
    PRECISELY!!! No one is innocent, except for the ordinary people who are just trying to get by.

  13. #13
    .......................
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    33,982

    Default Re: Article about Western hypocrisy

    Quote Originally Posted by ivan_the_terrible View Post
    PRECISELY!!! No one is innocent, except for the ordinary people who are just trying to get by.
    Glad someone gets it!

  14. #14
    craziii's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    4,247

    Default Re: Article about Western hypocrisy

    the article got some cold facts. I didn't even know the usa made any kind of promises to mikhail, very informative.
    fear is helluva drug
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    “The only rule that ever made sense to me I learned from a history, not an economics, professor at Wharton. "Fear," he used to say, "fear is the most valuable commodity in the universe." That blew me away. "Turn on the TV," he'd say. "What are you seeing? People selling their products? No. People selling the fear of you having to live without their products." freakin' A, was he right. Fear of aging, fear of loneliness, fear of poverty, fear of failure. Fear is the most basic emotion we have. Fear is primal. Fear sells.” WWZ

    Have you had your daily dose of fear yet? craziii
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  15. #15
    KaerMorhen's Avatar Vicarius
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Poland, Tychy
    Posts
    2,602

    Default Re: Article about Western hypocrisy

    Isn't it obvious to you?, those who hold power never care for morals, values etc., they care only for greater power, every empire does it and Russia is not victim as long they did same things for centuries but they lost final confrontation (cold war) and now they are ed up by the so-called West up in the ass.
    They have to get over it or drown...same rules for everyone no exceptions...like wheel of fortune

  16. #16

    Default Re: Article about Western hypocrisy

    As for the war in Georgia: yes, Sakashvili started it and the man is an idiot, but Russia overreacted.
    That Putin took the occasion of Saakashvili's provocative and stupid stunt to administer an extra dose of punishment is undeniable. But is not Russian anger understandable?
    When has anything good come out of violence? I might almost accept protecting Ossetians but why the hell does that include attacking Georgia?

    Kosovo broke from Serbia, we rejoiced.
    Really, was this the case? I remember quite the opposite.

    whose peoples are ethnically separate from Georgians and who fought for their independence, should succeed in breaking away?
    This is a difficult issue, and I don't think it would be impossible for them to break away, but I doubt attacking Georgia is going to solve this issue. Besides, aren't those countries rather small in the terms of population? Isn't there 25% Georgians in Ossetia? Would you grant them independence or rather have them join Russia?

    And the anti-missile defence: how is that a threath to Russia? There will be stationed 10 anti-missile missiles. Doesn't Russia have little bit more missiles that that? Besides AFAIK that technology isn't very reliable. Also the combined anti-missile defence would not work because from what I understand russian radar technology isn't advanced enough, though some kind of combined missile defence would be a good idea if it worked.

  17. #17
    Spamostoc's Avatar Decanus
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Never, never land
    Posts
    503

    Default Re: Article about Western hypocrisy

    As long as the US has enough countries kissing up to it for being all mighty and all great it will continue to blow steam at anyone with the balls to act like independent, intelligent human beings. Russia has already picked sides and is staking on the hope that the US won't act until it no longer has the support and power that it needs to do so. Whether China decides to throw its lots in with anyone besides itself has a lot of weight.

    @ hehehe, ICBMs traveling towards the US would travel over the arctic anyways. The US is basically going for the symbolism in this move since Russia has nothing to gain in nuking the rest of Europe. It's the modern American way of planting a flag in the dirt.
    ಠ_ಠ Oh hai

  18. #18
    clandestino's Avatar Primicerius
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Novi Sad, Serbia/Hell
    Posts
    3,374

    Default Re: Article about Western hypocrisy

    Nice article, pretty much sums up all the things I have said on this forum.
    I mean look at this board, and you can see how many members love to see the world in black and white, where the 'west' equals to the forces of good, and other place = forces of evil.


    At least have the decency to call your side, YOUR force as compared to you being good or bad
    Yes I'm to pretty much irritated with this Jedi vs Sith view of the world, it's all politics people-if someone is your opponent it doesn't necessary means that he's nationalistic, homicidal, pedofiliac satanist, he is a guy with a different oppinion, maybe he knows something you don't or you refuse to know. I said this 100 times: there is no good and bad in politics or as the Tutsi say:
    The Good is when we steal cows and women from the Hutu, the Bad is when the Hutu steal cows and women from us.
    Let's leave good and bad for church and ethics classes...
    Last edited by clandestino; August 19, 2008 at 12:16 PM.
    join the light side of the Force: Kosovo is Serbia
    Fight for the creation of new Serbian Empire


    == BARBAROGENIVS DECIVILISATOR ==










  19. #19
    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
    Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    33,188

    Default Re: Article about Western hypocrisy

    "Morals" and "Laws" only apply to superstates when it is convenient for them.

  20. #20
    Dunecat's Avatar Praefectus
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The United States of America
    Posts
    6,438

    Default Re: Article about Western hypocrisy

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos View Post
    "Morals" and "Laws" only apply to superstates when it is convenient for them.
    Jesus when did you become so cynical?

    "She's so jaded..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Guavin
    Regardless, this is freedom vs. authoritarianism, which I feel we have a moral obligation to oppose.
    As if one has "freedom" in a capitalist democracy.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •