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  1. #1
    Gaius Baltar's Avatar Old gods die hard
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    Icon14 Ukraine offers satellite defence co-operation with Europe and US

    From BBC report
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...pe-and-US.html.

    Interesting turn, Ukraine offering to provide old-Russian early-warning sites for use by NATO.

    maybe they should lease Sevestopal to NATO as well?


    Ukraine offers satellite defence co-operation with Europe and US

    Ukraine inflamed mounting East-West tensions yesterday by offering up a Soviet-built satellite facility as part of the European missile defence system.

    By Damien McElroy in Tbilisi
    Last Updated: 10:55AM BST 18 Aug 2008
    The proposal, made amid growing outrage among Russia's neighbours over its military campaign in Georgia, could see Ukraine added to Moscow's nuclear hitlist. A Russian general
    declared Poland a target for its arsenal after Warsaw signed a deal with Washington to host interceptor missiles for America's anti-nuclear shield.
    The move came as the Russian president, Dmitry Medvedev, signed a cease-fire deal that sets the stage for a Russian troop withdrawal after more than a week of warfare with its neighbour
    Georgia.
    The deal calls for both Russian and Georgian forces to pull back to positions they held before fighting erupted on August 8. As of last night, though, there was little apparent evidence of a
    Russian pull-out from the Georgian town of Gori, which Russian tanks and troops took last weekend. Russia's foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, insisted a broader withdrawal would be
    contingent on further security measures.
    Just hours before Mr Medvedev put his signature to the ceasefire deal, Russian forces blew up a Georgian railway bridge on the main line west of the capital, Tbilisi, an act that critics
    interpreted as a malacious attempt to cripple the country's infrastructure. Moscow at first issued a denial, but television footage shot by the Reuters news agency clearly showed the bridge's
    twisted remains.
    Ukraine said it was ready to give both Europe and America access to its missile warning systems after Russia earlier annulled a 1992 cooperation agreement involving two satellite tracking
    stations. Previously, the stations were part of Russia's early-warning system for missiles coming from Europe.
    "The fact that Ukraine is no longer a party to the 1992 agreement allows it to launch active cooperation with European countries to integrate its information," a statement from the Ukrainian
    Foreign Ministry said.
    It follows a declaration earlier this week from Ukraine's pro-Western president, Viktor Yushchenko, that the Russian naval lease of the Ukrainian Black Sea port of Sebastopol would be
    scrapped if any vessels joined the conflict in Georgia.
    The crisis over Russia's display of military might in Georgia has alarmed ex-Soviet satellites states in a broad arc from the Baltics to Central Asia. Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania, all of which
    harbour bitter memories of Soviet occupation, have expressed solidarity with the Georgian position.
    Yesterday President George W. Bush hailed what he saw as progress in resolving the Georgia crisis, describing the ceasefire agreement as "a hopeful step."
    He reiterated, though, that the disputed regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia remained part of Georgia, despite Moscow's insistence that they should now be allowed to become part of
    Russia. "There's no room for debate on this matter," said Mr Bush. "The international community is clear that South Ossetia and Abkhazia are part of Georgia and the US fully recognises this
    reality."
    Meanwhile, disturbing reports of abuse of ethnic Georgians in captured parts of the disputed region emerged. A group of captive soldiers were paraded in the streets of the South Ossetian
    capital, Tskinvali, and the bodies of at least 40 dead troops rotted in the sun.
    Teams of ethnic Georgians, some under armed guard, were forced to clean the streets. It was the first apparent evidence of humiliation or abuse of Georgians in the Russian-controlled
    breakaway republic.
    Last edited by Gaius Baltar; August 18, 2008 at 12:27 PM.

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  2. #2

    Default Re: Ukraine offers satellite defence co-operation with Europe and US

    Thanks Gaius!

    Now Dragonforce is blasting in my head again.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Ukraine offers satellite defence co-operation with Europe and US

    Can you make the text any smaller?


    -EJon

  4. #4

    Default Re: Ukraine offers satellite defence co-operation with Europe and US

    And so the brinksmanship continues.
    "oooh a gypsy wind is blowing warm tonight, sky is starlit and the time is right. Now you're telling me you have to go...before you do there's something you should know." - Bob Seger

    Freedom is the distance between church and state.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Ukraine offers satellite defence co-operation with Europe and US

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikelus Trento View Post
    And so the brinksmanship continues.
    It's not Brinksmanship, where you're TRYING at least to avoid crossing the line.

    I have a new term for this - DEATH METAL DIPLOMACY (R).

  6. #6
    Rich86's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Ukraine offers satellite defence co-operation with Europe and US

    Hmm interesting.......


    nice name btw Gaius

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Ukraine offers satellite defence co-operation with Europe and US

    Only more fuel in the fire.

  8. #8
    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Re: Ukraine offers satellite defence co-operation with Europe and US

    Russia certainly won't be happy over this.

  9. #9
    CtrlAltDe1337's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Ukraine offers satellite defence co-operation with Europe and US

    Bullies never like having their leverage taken away. If Russia would honor its word and withdraw from Georgia, showing that they can be trusted, then I doubt this would happen. As it is, they are acting like some rogue third-world country. At least Iran* has the guts to stand up to the West, while Russia just lies and keeps on doing what they want.


    *I in don't mean the "rogue third-world" country label to apply to Iran, btw.


  10. #10

    Default Re: Ukraine offers satellite defence co-operation with Europe and US

    Quote Originally Posted by CtrlAltDe1337 View Post
    Bullies never like having their leverage taken away. If Russia would honor its word and withdraw from Georgia, showing that they can be trusted, then I doubt this would happen. As it is, they are acting like some rogue third-world country. At least Iran* has the guts to stand up to the West, while Russia just lies and keeps on doing what they want.
    Give īem some time. They havenīt been readying for this war like Saakashvili had.
    "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." DNA

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Ukraine offers satellite defence co-operation with Europe and US

    Intervention in Georgia, NATO, Polish missiles, Ukrainian radar. Back people into a corner they will strike.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Ukraine offers satellite defence co-operation with Europe and US

    Quote Originally Posted by ЯoMe kb8 View Post
    Intervention in Georgia, NATO, Polish missiles, Ukrainian radar. Back people into a corner they will strike.
    Russia backed itself into a corner

  13. #13

    Default Re: Ukraine offers satellite defence co-operation with Europe and US

    Quote Originally Posted by Vexille View Post
    Russia backed itself into a corner
    Backed ITSELF? Isīt it more like "is being pushed into a corner"?

    Quote Originally Posted by SuNL1ghT View Post
    Ukraine and Georgia should be allowed into NATO asap.
    You are that desperate to fight Russians when some idiot "elected" president starts war with Russia again? Will you fight? Why didnīt you do anything except make some soothing noises to defend the beacon of freedom and democracy when Saakashwili cried wolf all over western media?
    Or you think Ukrainians are too civilized to start ethnic cleansing in Crimea?
    "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." DNA

  14. #14

    Default Re: Ukraine offers satellite defence co-operation with Europe and US

    Quote Originally Posted by perun View Post
    Backed ITSELF? Isīt it more like "is being pushed into a corner"?



    You are that desperate to fight Russians when some idiot "elected" president starts war with Russia again? Will you fight? Why didnīt you do anything except make some soothing noises to defend the beacon of freedom and democracy when Saakashwili cried wolf all over western media?
    Or you think Ukrainians are too civilized to start ethnic cleansing in Crimea?
    so Russia invading Georgia is the west backing you into a corner?

    reality to Perun! are you there?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Ukraine offers satellite defence co-operation with Europe and US

    Quote Originally Posted by Vexille View Post
    so Russia invading Georgia is the west backing you into a corner?
    Doing everything to make a stupid president of a small Russiaīs neighbour state believe that if he attacks Russia then NATO, US et al will come with their tanks and warplanes to fight the Russians. Saakashvili actually seemed to be quite sure of that - just watch the first interview he gave to the CNN after the war began.
    Acting surprised and wailing about the return of totalitarian Russia. Denying the simple truth that Georgia attacked first.
    These are just in connection with the S. Ossetia conflict.
    I wonīt even go back to the diplomatic wars with Britain and all the NATO expansion business.
    "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." DNA

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Ukraine offers satellite defence co-operation with Europe and US

    Quote Originally Posted by Vexille View Post
    Russia backed itself into a corner
    No its quite clear they are being backed into one.

  17. #17
    Carach's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Ukraine offers satellite defence co-operation with Europe and US

    Quote Originally Posted by ЯoMe kb8 View Post
    No its quite clear they are being backed into one.
    if its clear u wouldnt mind clarifying how/why.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Ukraine offers satellite defence co-operation with Europe and US

    We will see how easy this will be taken by Ukrainians themselves.

    I really do not understand why Ukraine's government does everything to brake the Friendship agreement with Russia, that ensures their current borders. Only that document makes them rightful owners of Crimea.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Ukraine offers satellite defence co-operation with Europe and US

    Man this is not good. I understand that Ukraina migth fear Russia and as such this might make the want closer relations to the west but it also could provoke Russia to attack again and that would just increas tensions even more.

    I want Ukrainian membership in Nato and the EU (if the Ukrainians want it ) but this migth not be the correct timeing.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Ukraine offers satellite defence co-operation with Europe and US

    too much tea table diplomacy.

    Russias own actions have caused Ukraine to do this, noone elses.

    Let's just hope they were fascist communist kittens who were on their way to international fascist communist fair.

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