WTF with all the religions?

[Copperknickers II]

What is wrong with all of your arguments is that you think that you can understand something that is by its very nature vastly superior to you. God is a superior being, and is therefore above your understanding.

And don't give me this ridiculous notion that God just wants to tell us what to do. God's will is like the law, you don't have to follow it but it is there for a reason, the government can't change human nature any more than God can destroy his own creation (free will/humans). He could if he wanted to, but he loves us.

[gambit]

What is wrong with all of your arguments is that you think that you can understand something that is by its very nature vastly superior to you. God is a superior being, and is therefore above your understanding.

That's an outrageously flawed argument. First off, how do you know? You're just as much a human as we are, so you dont understand at all apparently. You could be just as far off the mark as any of us. Second, how does superiority mean we dont understand? Just because he's better than us does not mean he cannot be wrong.

And don't give me this ridiculous notion that God just wants to tell us what to do. God's will is like the law, you don't have to follow it but it is there for a reason, the government can't change human nature any more than God can destroy his own creation (free will/humans). He could if he wanted to, but he loves us.

Right we dont have to follow his will... but we do. In the end, you HAVE to bow down to God. You HAVE to solemnly believe he is the lord, Jesus is his son and the divine spirit is in all of us. You HAVE to obey the ten commandments. You HAVE to ask for forgiveness.

Unless you like lakes of fire.

[removeduser_487563287433]

What is wrong with all of your arguments is that you think that you can understand something that is by its very nature vastly superior to you. God is a superior being, and is therefore above your understanding.

And don't give me this ridiculous notion that God just wants to tell us what to do. God's will is like the law, you don't have to follow it but it is there for a reason, the government can't change human nature any more than God can destroy his own creation (free will/humans). He could if he wanted to, but he loves us.

Oh my God spare us the pontificating bollocks.

[Rich86]

Each man who thinks he knows what is unknowable, is close-minded.

Agreed.

[Starvin Marvin]

can you stop with the preaching?

[Mithie]

What is wrong with all of your arguments is that you think that you can understand something that is by its very nature vastly superior to you. God is a superior being, and is therefore above your understanding.

I guess the Catholic Church must have missed your memo, because I'm pretty sure they know EXACTLY what God is all about, down to his daily schedule during the first 7 days of creation, his personal habits, and his thoughts on political and ethical issues like the ethnic cleansing of Sodomites, homosexuality, and abortion.

[Copperknickers II]

"can you stop with the preaching?"

Noones forcing you to read it. (I hope, maybe they are)

"That's an outrageously flawed argument. First off, how do you know? You're just as much a human as we are, so you dont understand at all apparently. You could be just as far off the mark as any of us. Second, how does superiority mean we dont understand? Just because he's better than us does not mean he cannot be wrong."

1. I don't know any better than you do, i just have better ideas. And before you challenge that, my ideas (not mine personally, just the ones from the bible) are shared by 3 billion people, yours by maybe a quarter that amount if you are lucky. You have to admit that Christianity is the most succesful meme ever, if nothign else. I'll leave this point with a quote: "Always remember, it doesnt matter what you say, because the church is bigger than you are"

2. Ah but yes it does, you see, he is omniscient.

"Right we dont have to follow his will... but we do. In the end, you HAVE to bow down to God. You HAVE to solemnly believe he is the lord, Jesus is his son and the divine spirit is in all of us. You HAVE to obey the ten commandments. You HAVE to ask for forgiveness.

Unless you like lakes of fire."

Granted, but you're saying it as if it's his fault. And the only thing you really have to do is believe, though i admit that is difficult these days.

And Ferrets, whoever says atheists are close minded was right, at least i listen to reason.

"I guess the Catholic Church must have missed your memo, because I'm pretty sure they know EXACTLY what God is all about"

As do most Christians, but i try not to view religion as a foregone conlcusion like them, just a very persuasive argument for things.

[gambit]

1. I don't know any better than you do, i just have better ideas. And before you challenge that, my ideas (not mine personally, just the ones from the bible) are shared by 3 billion people, yours by maybe a quarter that amount if you are lucky. "Always remember, it doesnt matter what you say, because the church is bigger than you are"

Oh. I forget this is a time when sheer force of numbers means that side is obviously right. So if you saw a mob chasing someone down, does that mean the mob is doing the right thing, just causes they're a mob?

2. Ah but yes it does, you see, he is omniscient.

So he says. He hasn't done much to prove he's that smart. If he was the most intelligent thing in existence, he wouldn't even NEED a lake of fire or ten commandments. We would already know. Yes he wants us to have free will, but free will is flawed when you still have them do what YOU(God) want.

Granted, but you're saying it as if it's his fault. And the only thing you really have to do is believe, though i admit that is difficult these days.

Well... it is. It is his fault he made the lakes, he made the rules and he made us. It is, in the end, his fault I'm typing on this keyboard right now because he created the materials and the minds necessary to construct it. He created me with full knowledge (apparently) that I'd act this way, along with the rest of humanity so it is. He knew Adam and Eve had eaten the apple before they told him, so he knew they would before even they knew they would. He let it happen. He wanted us to have free will, but he could have stepped in regardless. With power comes great responsibility. I don't see God being that responsible.

Also, I'm not trying to be a dick at all but you should probably use the [.quote] [./quote] tags (without the periods). It makes it so much easier to seperate what you're saying from what you're responding too.

[removeduser_487563287433]

And Ferrets, whoever says atheists are close minded was right, at least i listen to reason.

I'm not an atheist. Interesting assumption there, Mr. Open-Minded.

[Copperknickers II]

I'm not an atheist. Interesting assumption there, Mr. Open-Minded.

Quote? I never claimed to be open minded, merely that i could stomach people who were less so than me.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Quote? I never claimed to be open minded, merely that i could stomach people who were less so than me.

Want a medal?

[attilavolciak07]

Let's assume the god does exist and the bibles are true and he's omnipotent and he created us, so what? (the same for buddha and other gods and ghosts)

Why should I fear him? Why should I submit to him? Why should anyone bow down to him or anything? Would you kiss someone's ass because he can give you candies?

The sad part about human nature is that they always require someone to look up to and believe whne they have no hope.


But I believe you, I am an Athiest myself!

[Rich86]

i just have better ideas. And before you challenge that, my ideas (not mine personally, just the ones from the bible) are shared by 3 billion people,

Seriously - you are joking yes? Let me explain - you cannot argue numbers means you are right. If 3 billion people believed black people should be enslaved and we should jump on the "LET'S START SLAVERY AGAIN YEY!" train would they be right?

Likewise, if 3 billion people (do you have a source for this number btw?) became atheists would they be right? I doubt you would say they were!

Your saying it as if its his fault.

It IS his fault.

[Mithie]

And the only thing you really have to do is believe, though i admit that is difficult these days.

Well, we have to believe...

... and not eat shellfish, not practice homosexuality, not believe in other invisible deities, stick to a stringent practice of sexual intercourse, have to take a shower in spiced water...

[Copperknickers II]

... and not eat shellfish, not practice homosexuality, not believe in other invisible deities, stick to a stringent practice of sexual intercourse, have to take a shower in spiced water...

What? please produce sources for those things, none of them are true except: "not believe in other invisible deities". They are just things the catholic church wants, and i have already said i dont believe in their ridiculous predjudices.

Oh. I forget this is a time when sheer force of numbers means that side is obviously right. So if you saw a mob chasing someone down, does that mean the mob is doing the right thing, just causes they're a mob?

Nothing of the sort, i am simply saying that if it has managed to convince so many people then it as least worth considering. Unless there is a genuine reason why God cannot exist. I am not Christian btw, i am an evolutionist that thinks it is just possible for a God to exist outside science. I do not belive God is omnipotent, so you might as well rethink your stock approach to dealing with Christians.

[Mithie]

"... and not eat shellfish, not practice homosexuality, not believe in other invisible deities, stick to a stringent practice of sexual intercourse, have to take a shower in spiced water..."

What? please produce sources for those things, none of them are true except: "not believe in other invisible deities". They are just things the catholic church wants, and i have already said i dont believe in their ridiculous predjudices.

That's great Copper. But hey, that 3 billion number you quoted - guess what a good number of them believe?

... as for proof, well, what Christian denomination doesn't believe in Baptism as the definitive proof of acceptance of Christ?

Even the Mormons believe it. Well... I guess unitarians don't consider it to be really neccessary, but all the other Christians think those guys are nuts anyways.

[Copperknickers II]

That's great Copper. But hey, that 3 billion number you quoted - guess what a good number of them believe?

Doesn't it strike you as slightly strange that so many people can believe in a God but have such different religions other than that? What i have done is simply stripped off the human layers and revealed a benevolent, omniscient God.

As i said, not a Christian.

[gambit]

Nothing of the sort, i am simply saying that if it has managed to convince so many people then it as least worth considering. Unless there is a genuine reason why God cannot exist. I am not Christian btw, i am an evolutionist that thinks it is just possible for a God to exist outside science. I do not belive God is omnipotent, so you might as well rethink your stock approach to dealing with Christians.

The great masses of the people will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one.
Adolf Hitler; Mein Kampf

While I agree it does deserve a good long looking at, but clustering them into 3 billion is too general. There are around 85 denominations of just Christianity in the world. Each has the details set to their own belief. Not too mention all of the other religions. IF there is a God, which one would be right?

For the record, I'm pretty much the same as you. Humans are completely natural IMO, we are just the most advanced on this Earth. I don't believe there is a God but I dont dismiss it. IF there is one, I know he isn't the God from the bible. I would accept a flawed God, but not an egotistical one that can't admit his faults.

EDIT: I see you're using the quotes now. Soon you shall all bend to my undeniable will!

[Rich86]

How many people believe in a god does not prove a thing - lots of people used to believe in Zeus. Lots of people used to think smoking was good for you. Lots of people used to believe in witches. Lots of people used to believe the earth was flat.

Numbers = flawed argument. It does not make the belief any more 'true.'

[Copperknickers II]

"The great masses of the people will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one.
Adolf Hitler; Mein Kampf"

But how then do you explain that in three religions, one factor is present, and that is a God?