An Interesting, If Cruel, Experiment

[Justinian]

Take a baby and confine it within a surviveable environment with no contact at all with other humans; no time for preconceived notions to be put in their minds, no explanations, no education, nothing. Allow this human baby to grow in a nonhuman world, with no companion but plants, animals and artificial sky; allow this baby to be deprived of human contact, of its social nature. All, of course, in the nature of science.

Once this baby has reached the age of mental capability and has lived many years in his environment, this baby -- let us call him Purity -- is to be withdrawn from that environment and injected into human society to be studied. Difficulties in communication aside:

1) Would Purity have any notion of a God, an overarching power or force that defined, ruled, or even watched his actions?
2) What explanations, myths, or stories might Purity have invented to explain his existence? Would he have even bothered with such questions?
3) Would Purity have a moral system beyond the advancement of self? Would murder or violence phase him? Would anything seem inherently wrong or right? Is the engrained feeling of right or wrong we all have simply the product of human notions and teachings, or is it embedded within us?
4) Would Purity attempt to adjust to this new lifestyle? Would he be able to, in a minute way, fit in to human society? Or are we as animal as we make ourselves, as our parents and social interaction make us?

[Copperknickers II]

We already know that without human contact, children do not develop recognisably into humans. Extreme child cruelty cases in which babies have been locked in cages for six years with nothing but food and water and the occasional hand poking through with something have shown that if the mind is not stimulated then it does not grow, and even in the form of animals, the subject will have no visible concept of abstract thought or language.

3) is a very good question, though. The answer is probably that the subject would have no concept of right or wrong, as not having been exposed to other humans would make them seem unreal, creating a state of psychopathy.

[Nick_Since_1985]

Has allready been done by some German Emperor if I remember correctly, they both died...

[Ummon]

It has been done also in a limited way only with regard to religion: the child started to spontaneously worship the sun.

[Azog 150]

Well there are those feral children who are brought up by dogs etc. And although they can't talk, they can communicate with other dogs (or whatever animal brought them up) and they holds the same values a dog would.

Most of them are unable to fit into society.

[Ciabhán]

This is pretty close to what you describe.
http://www.tampabay.com/features/hum...icle750838.ece

[Broken Pope]

... When I read the post, I thought it was the build up to an Al Gore joke.

[Noremac]

It has been done also in a limited way only with regard to religion: the child started to spontaneously worship the sun.

Reference PLEASE!
That would make alot of sense because if you can't explain something you come up with a logical explination to said problem.
Q: What is that big, round, bright thing in the sky?
A: The Sun.
Q: What does it do?
A: Keeps you alive?
Q: Is it god?
If the person had never interacted with other humans then yes it is very possible.

[jonny duck]

I think all the points would revolve around him being able to formulate a "language" in which he could think. Without any kind of social interaction (be it with humans or animals) he would not be able to fully develop. Therefore is he has no language with which to comunicate even with himself, then he may not even be able to ask questions to himself. In my opinion, the need for a God, or an "overseeing power" come from the inability of our early ancesters to answer some questions about the world they lived in. In essence, God was created from a fear of the unknown (and perhaps by some extent, a way of some people controlling others using their fear of the unknown)

If Purity cannot ask questions about his enviroment then it is unlikely he will have invented myths or stories which which to explain it.
If however he can develop a language, then it is most likely his God will be a more powerful version of what he believes himself to be, and his myths would be what he could most logically create using the information at his disposal.

In answer to whether he would have morals, perhaps yes, but they would be very limited. Without interaction with other humans, then he would not know about murder, yet alone be able to think as to whether it is right or wrong. His only morals would arise from hurts he inflicts upon himself. If he were to destroy every plant in his "cage", he might then go hungry, and so lone it is in his best interests not to do such things.


However if he spend his time with animals, then it is perhaps most likely he would be raised, or have some affinity with them. My main example is the story of a girl who was discovered in Italy in the 1960's whose parents had left her outside for a night as a test of strength, however she had been taken by wolves and raised by them. When she was eventually found at around the age of 12, she was feral beyond rehabilitation. In the end I think she was killed by the life style, so it is unlikely that Purity would be able to adjust to the human society.

[Jesus The Inane]

Its a beautiful life indeed.

[alhoon]

I think we were taught in school that very small groups of isolated humans had weird conceptions (according to us) but on principal were following most of the important rules.
Like: Murder is bad. Making others sad is bad.
On the other hand, not all such societies had use of "private property" so stealing was some times out of the question.

[Thanatos]

The baby would be pretty messed up, man.

[Thanatos]

If the baby didn't worship the Sun or nature, I'd be honestly quite surprised.

[Zenith Darksea]

Take a baby and confine it within a surviveable environment with no contact at all with other humans; no time for preconceived notions to be put in their minds, no explanations, no education, nothing. Allow this human baby to grow in a nonhuman world, with no companion but plants, animals and artificial sky; allow this baby to be deprived of human contact, of its social nature. All, of course, in the nature of science.

Hey, I know this. Isn't it the plot of The Jungle Book? Well, except for the science bit, obviously. As I remember, Mowgli grows up into a fine young lad, though the snake and the lion do their best to lead him off the rails.

Seriously though, unless you're actually going to try this experiment, I'm not sure that any of us can say for sure what would happen.

What is interesting when you think about it is that mankind, somewhere, a long time ago, was in a position where it had only just developed the intelligence to comprehend things like God and religion. We can't conceive of something until we have experienced it - for example, if you had never seen the colour blue, and I told you to imagine it in your head, you wouldn't be able to picture it. In the same way, there must have been a time when man hadn't heard of the concept of divinity. All of man's experience tells him that people die and that they are bound by physical limits, so who was the first person to think about a transcendent, immortal God? How did the thought first occur to them?

[basics]

Zenith Darksea,

Have you never read of how God made Adam and then Eve? Unless God is a liar would it then be fair to say that the both were well aware of Him since He made the groundrules for their existence within the garden and therefore they must have been aware from their creation of who He was?

And then have you never read Romans where Paul tells us, and he learned directly from Jesus Christ the Lord, how each one has a built in knowledge of God, no matter how small, to remind them that He is God, and, creation, despite their sin, is His?

Perhaps John lied to us when he said that in Jesus Christ there was nothing made that was not made by Him? Even perhaps that the Scriptures Jesus Christ claimed to be every word that cometh out of the mouth of God, were in fact just a load of tosh?

Does that really conform to the rubbish you wrote, not as one of the world, yet certainly as a man who claims to be Christian?

[Thanatos]

Hey, I know this. Isn't it the plot of The Jungle Book? Well, except for the science bit, obviously. As I remember, Mowgli grows up into a fine young lad, though the snake and the lion do their best to lead him off the rails.

Seriously though, unless you're actually going to try this experiment, I'm not sure that any of us can say for sure what would happen.

What is interesting when you think about it is that mankind, somewhere, a long time ago, was in a position where it had only just developed the intelligence to comprehend things like God and religion. We can't conceive of something until we have experienced it - for example, if you had never seen the colour blue, and I told you to imagine it in your head, you wouldn't be able to picture it. In the same way, there must have been a time when man hadn't heard of the concept of divinity. All of man's experience tells him that people die and that they are bound by physical limits, so who was the first person to think about a transcendent, immortal God? How did the thought first occur to them?

You're saying that the concept of a God is unprovable a priori? I'm sorry, but that's just wrong, since comparing the imagining of a color isn't like that of a God.

Besides, God's written His laws on all of our hearts (according to Christianity) so technically, if we are arguing this route, we've always known that SOMEONE is there.

[D.B. Cooper]

What is interesting when you think about it is that mankind, somewhere, a long time ago, was in a position where it had only just developed the intelligence to comprehend things like God and religion. We can't conceive of something until we have experienced it - for example, if you had never seen the colour blue, and I told you to imagine it in your head, you wouldn't be able to picture it. In the same way, there must have been a time when man hadn't heard of the concept of divinity. All of man's experience tells him that people die and that they are bound by physical limits, so who was the first person to think about a transcendent, immortal God? How did the thought first occur to them?

Men created divinity to explain things that they themselves couldn't explain. Like thunderstorms, the regular flooding of the Nile, crop-eating plagues of locusts, etc. Even natural curiosity about what came after death fed into men's creation of gods and goddesses.

Feral children aren't quite the same, I'm thinking, as the children are raised by something, even though it's radically different from what we would call the norm. About 3), it depends on whether Purity has completely understood the concept of pain and hurting. Say she hurts herself in her little cell. Would the sight of someone being stabbed to death before her eyes affect her at all? Maybe, because maybe she can attribute the act of causing pain with a knife to her own painful experiences inside her cell.

Would Purity have morals? I doubt it, morals are shaped by the society and she doesn't have any society to teach her. Our parents and society teach us what's right and what's wrong, right? What could be her moral compass in her cell? I don't even think she would have any curiosity about her surroundings, and therefore no reason to visualize a God for herself, because all her life she's known nothing but her little cell. It's her own world, she has no reason to believe anything else is out there. About adjusting to a new lifestyle, who knows? It'd be like handing off a baby to a pack of wolves and let her be raised, except for Purity it'd be even worse because she's known nothing at all except herself all her life. She might be rejected or somehow able to adjust. She'd be one ed up child that's for sure.

[Armatus]

Many many cases over time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_child

[favre4ever]

This is the plot for a movie with tim robbins, its called human nature. It very nearly answers (in some directors mind) most, if not all your questions.

[Winter]

4) Would Purity attempt to adjust to this new lifestyle? Would he be able to, in a minute way, fit in to human society? Or are we as animal as we make ourselves, as our parents and social interaction make us?

There is no way for Purity to fit into any sort of human society, as the development of our own behavior is modeled on imitation. Children start speaking because they imitate their parents, etc.

Purity would have no language or any sort of knowledge other than how to survive on his or her own - though this is debatable since, as most animals learn to hunt and find food by imitating their parents or herd members, purity would have no one to teach him. He may however learn by watching other animals. We could also assume that food found in this environment could be left in spots for him by the experimenters where he could easily find it until he figures out how to forage on his own..

I believe these assumptions would override all the other questions. Even if the child had any sort of notions of a maker or religion , he would have no way to communicate it to the experimenters or others, however I will answer them anyway.

1) Would Purity have any notion of a God, an overarching power or force that defined, ruled, or even watched his actions?

- Purity would have a very hard time explaining the world around him, assuming he paused to think about this. He might try to rationalize the movement of water in a stream or perhaps the wind or rain or the sun by inventing for himself some sort of invisible force of some kind - of course this is all highly subjective.

It is however, at least in my mind, not likely at all that he would be able to create for himself a god that watched over him. It took years and many minds to create that notion, and he couldn't think it up on his own.

2) What explanations, myths, or stories might Purity have invented to explain his existence? Would he have even bothered with such questions?

I think I answered that above

3) Would Purity have a moral system beyond the advancement of self? Would murder or violence phase him? Would anything seem inherently wrong or right? Is the engrained feeling of right or wrong we all have simply the product of human notions and teachings, or is it embedded within us?

I'm really not sure about this one. I would guess that he would have a rudimentary conscience, much like the one humans evolved to help them preserve their societies. However he would have no clue about consequences of these sort of actions, so the sting might be taken out of them.