The result of a debate with a friend.

[General Frum]

We were debating on the existence in Satan. I, at the time, didn't believe in Satan, and saw Satan as just being sin...

You would really have needed to be in the conversation for the argument to make more sense then it does in the following article.


Satan and Sin theory. Draft #1

If Satan is to exist, then the idea that Satan is sin, must be, or alternatively, must not be separate from Sin.

Because in order for them to be one in the same, yet two separate essences, that cannot share a separate name,
because that would imply, that they are different, hold different strengths and weaknesses, over the mind of man.

So, by all proper reasoning, sin and Satan, must be one in the same.

But, if you go by the bibles way, that Jesus died for our sins, and destroyed Satans' power of man in doing so, would
mean that Satan, was simply a "director" or controller of sin. So when Jesus destroyed sin, thus this would in turn
take away his power over man. Meaning that Satan does exist, but on a separate way then sin itself.

Satan feeds off of sin, and uses it to bend mans mind to his bidding. As sin already weighs on all of us, we will either
fall to this sin in some way, or overcome it. Meaning that sin, or in a better word, evil, not Satan, is what causes humans to "sin".

Thus, this means, that there are actually three aspects of sin and evil.

Satan- The controller of sin and evil.
Evil(as a force, not an action)- The force that causes Sin.
Sin- The act itself, a physical or mental act, that is in offense of god, and influenced or controlled by Satan.

This would mean, that Evil and sin, are a single Process, in this way, we will call them Variable SE, and Satan will be Variable S
Sin as an act will be SI

So if S controls SE to produce SI, then S grows stronger from SI... meaning we are in a literal sense, looking at a cycle of
constantly growing Evil, and SIN, meaning that, in this case, unless interrupted, the 3 variables, will cause "SIN and Evil" as a
force to take a good amount of control over a person, unless interrupted by the process of being saved by the Lord our God, Jesus Christ.

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In this short article, I, Tyler Frum, have proposed the theory, that Satan, Sin and Evil are not on in the same, yet connect in a way
to create more of Sin(Action), Sin(Force), and Evil, thus making Satan more powerful, causing more Sin(Action), Sin(Force), and Evil.

This process is interrupted by God's saving of a soul.

So, this, in a sense, is an idea as to how sin spreads through a society.

---

This is not the final draft, as our debating continues, I will be making a final conclusion on the subject.

PLease tell me what you think.

[kev-o]

Satan isn't sin. He is a fallen angel who rebeled against God. Sin has to do with freewill. Satan can tempt you to do some thing but it is left up to you to do the action.

[General Frum]

Yes, but in an essence, it can be translated, that they are in a way the same.

Satan is supposed to be pure evil, thus in a way, pure sin, thus sin itself...
but It was really quite easy to destroy that argument, I might say I think I believe in satan and sin being separate now.

[Dayman]

If Satan is to exist

If Satan is to exist, God must exist, to conclusively support your premise, you must prove God exists.

Good luck with that.

It's like debating the view blocking qualities of a fence that hasn't even been built.

But, you're debating, and trying to support your arguments. That's a good thing, keep working at it. Remember though, every statement you make, each needs to rely on a premise that is in itself true, if you want anyone to take your theory seriously.

Why must Satan exist? Why must sin exist? Are they not metaphors? Why are they linked? How does this demonstrate this is how "sin" spreads through society? Who introduces the sin? Satan? By what method? If Satan needs sin, and Jesus destroyed it, how does Satan get more? Why does Satan need sin? Does sin exist? Does Satan exist? Can you conclusively prove that Jesus destroys sin, or that Satan creates it? How do you claim knowledge about certain aspects of Sin which are not mentioned in the Bible?

[Justinian]

If Satan is to exist, God must exist,

That's a giant leap to make there, my Seattle-based airline friend. Only by proscribing to the narrow notions of Judeo-Christian morality must we take this leap. If one supernatural, unfathomably-powerful and yet entirely unrealistic being were to exist, why would they be confined to the need for another to exist? It's not as if there is some rule of balance that all things adhere to; the ultimate force of 'Evil' (Satan) does not have to be balanced out by the ultimate force of 'Good' (God). That's a bad assumption to make.

Everything is in a constant state of flux, change. Balance is an illusion. After all, life can only be created in the perfect imbalance.

[Dayman]

That's a giant leap to make there, my Seattle-based airline friend. Only by proscribing to the narrow notions of Judeo-Christian morality must we take this leap. If one supernatural, unfathomably-powerful and yet entirely unrealistic being were to exist, why would they be confined to the need for another to exist? It's not as if there is some rule of balance that all things adhere to; the ultimate force of 'Evil' (Satan) does not have to be balanced out by the ultimate force of 'Good' (God). That's a bad assumption to make.

Everything is in a constant state of flux, change. Balance is an illusion. After all, life can only be created in the perfect imbalance.

Because the existence of Satan in the Judeo Christian tradition is predicated on God existing.

[General Frum]

If Satan is to exist, God must exist, to conclusively support your premise, you must prove God exists.

But, if God existed before Satan, since god cast satan into hell, thus god created Satan to begin with, meaning god existed before Satan. So no, Satan doesn't have to exist for god to exist.

Good luck with that.

It's like debating the view blocking qualities of a fence that hasn't even been built.

But, you're debating, and trying to support your arguments. That's a good thing, keep working at it. Remember though, every statement you make, each needs to rely on a premise that is in itself true, if you want anyone to take your theory seriously.

Thing is, this is, regardless, a constantly un-debatable topic, for one reason, everyone will not make solid assumptions, in this argument, we are assuming God exist.

Why must Satan exist? Why must sin exist? Are they not metaphors? Why are they linked? How does this demonstrate this is how "sin" spreads through society? Who introduces the sin? Satan? By what method? If Satan needs sin, and Jesus destroyed it, how does Satan get more? Why does Satan need sin? Does sin exist? Does Satan exist? Can you conclusively prove that Jesus destroys sin, or that Satan creates it? How do you claim knowledge about certain aspects of Sin which are not mentioned in the Bible?

I gather my knowledge of what i see sin, and evil as off of my own assumptions, and observations, every human is capable of infinite good, or evil. This pretty much is the base of society, we can go almost anywhere with our actions, some of it deemed sin, some of it deemed good, but they are still just actions.

Replies in bold.

Honestly, it is really hard to sustain any arguement on religion, "on the spot". It always takes research, and compromise if you ask me, and a whole lot of time. And in the end, will get nowhere just because of differing beliefs. ....

SO, I don't see any of our religion debates ever getting anywhere...

[Copperknickers II]

Satan is a manifestation and personification of sin. He is a fallen angel who renounced God in favour of temptation, and came to be associated with it. Evil (temptation to stray from the path of God) is something that does not physically exist, ie it is not an entity, but a product of humanity. That does not mean that humans are inherently evil, but that evil is inherently a human trait. This differs from the OPs opinion in that evil is not never ending, but it is imo the opposite of God's will, and therefore by denying God's will you slip further down the path of evil. You are right however in saying that sin is a process which can be reversed by

A - Submitting to Gods will

B - Acknowledging that Jesus died for your sins, therefore following God's will and interrupting the process of sin that draws you along the path of evil.

[removeduser_426582376423734]

You should sticky that post on the doors of the EMM.