Inviting Australia into NATO

[Farnan]

I've been thinking, with how much Australia contributes to ISAF-A, and how they hold a special relationship with the US, Canada and the UK, three major NATO members, how about inviting them into NATO?

I know Australia is not in the North Atlantic, but that part of the name seems outdated by the real world (especially how NATO's biggest operation is in Afghanistan, and the Baltic States can hardly be called Atlantic) and Australia can be a valuable member.

[Joker85]

I think it would make more sense to create a similar defense alliance in Asia but anchored by Japan, South Korea, Australia, NZ, America, the Philippines, and eventually India. It seems kind of pointless for Europe to sign up to the defense of Asia when (apart from possibly the UK)they do not even have the capabilities to project power (let alone the will) that far.

[Farnan]

I think it would make more sense to create a similar defense alliance in Asia but anchored by Japan, South Korea, Australia, NZ, America, the Philippines, and eventually India. It seems kind of pointless for Europe to sign up to the defense of Asia when (apart from possibly the UK)they do not even have the capabilities to project power (let alone the will) that far.

But the US has the power to move them...

And making seperate treaty groups can create problems when they compete (see Falklands War).

Burnum: That's what I was thinking. Replace some of these outdated alliances and merge some.

[Guderian's Duck]

Why do we want to invite Australia into the North Atlantic Treaty Organization?

[Holger Danske]

Why do we want to invite Australia into the North Atlantic Treaty Organization?

Read the OP again, please...

But I have to agree with Joker here.. An Asian version of NATO is needed.

[Turnus]

But I have to agree with Joker here.. An Asian version of NATO is needed.

Which would hardly want to include Australia. The South-East Asian countries despise the fact that Australia is a rich and relatively powerful non-Asian country in their region. Some examples:

Singapore's former prime minister (now senior minister), Lee Kuan Yew, once called Australia the "poor white trash of Asia". Former Malaysian Prime Minister Dr. Mahathir bin Mohamad repeatedly stated that unless Australia radically altered its ethnic makeup to become "70 per cent Asian", it would never be accepted in the region.

Not to mention China is forced to spend billions to import natural resources from Australia (though it does look like there could be more important trade agreements with China in the future). In any case, Australia is already allied to the two major powers of NATO (US and UK), and remember, they also have the defence pact with Malaysia and New Zealand to fall back on!

[Joker85]

But the US has the power to move them...

And making seperate treaty groups can create problems when they compete (see Falklands War).

Burnum: That's what I was thinking. Replace some of these outdated alliances and merge some.

Transporting large numbers of troops from the US to its various commitments around the world is different from being able to transport European armed forces to Asia. If a war broke out in Asia that the US was involved in, we would be using all of our assets to assist our own forces. Besides, why should we be paying for that ability any way? If they want to be global actors, let them use their own money to pay the costs.

Given the problems have had getting some governments to contribute combat troops to Afghanistan, or even the recent weak kneed response on Georgia, I just don't see any reason to believe they would be a reliable ally in a conflict in Asia.

The UK is about the only nation I see with the ability to provide substantial assistance. They are also one of a few that we would be able to count on to stand strong if push came to shove.

I just think it would be dangerous to NATO to overstretch it like that and turn it into a global alliance. I would much rather see a new security alliance formed with Asian democracies, with the option for the UK to join as well if they feel it is in their interests.

[Xan]

I think it would make more sense to create a similar defense alliance in Asia but anchored by Japan, South Korea, Australia, NZ, America, the Philippines, and eventually India. It seems kind of pointless for Europe to sign up to the defense of Asia when (apart from possibly the UK)they do not even have the capabilities to project power (let alone the will) that far.

How about takeing the above country and the current mmembers of NATO and make one big alliance ?

Transporting large numbers of troops from the US to its various commitments around the world is different from being able to transport European armed forces to Asia. If a war broke out in Asia that the US was involved in, we would be using all of our assets to assist our own forces. Besides, why should we be paying for that ability any way? If they want to be global actors, let them use their own money to pay the costs.

I see your point.

But i think most European nations don`t have the ambition to be global player and that is why there is not such an ability to project force in most European militarys.

Given the problems have had getting some governments to contribute combat troops to Afghanistan, or even the recent weak kneed response on Georgia, I just don't see any reason to believe they would be a reliable ally in a conflict in Asia

I think part of the problem with the Afghanistan conflict is that many nations don`t want to be seen as indirectly helping the occupation of Iraq.
As for Georgia they are not a Nato ally and what more would you like European natsions to do ?

What I am suggesting this as is part of a transformation of NATO from a Cold War alliance to one of an alliance of liberal Democracies with the goal of mutual co-operation in defence and humanitarian efforts along with a forum for them to settle disputes and work together. Not a substitute for the UN, but a compliment. While the UN puts all the nations together, NATO simply works with the Liberal Democracies. NATO can also under most cases serve as the muscle for the UNSC. Peacemakers needed in Darfur? Instead of building a makeshift coalition like in DS, give NATO the mandate and they can form a force, establish peace and then hand it off to Blue Helmets.

I don`t think Nato as it is or in a new format with the asian countrys shud operate as a world police.
Nato shud be a defensive allianse that takes care of treats against the member countrys.
And maybe to some extent indirect treats like the Russian invasion of Georgia.

Yeah name it.........NITO

LOL i am allready a member of that organisation

(it is a student union in Norway)

[phowa]

I see your point.

But i think most European nations don`t have the ambition to be global player and that is why there is not such an ability to project force in most European militarys.

European Union there pushing hard enough for that then they will be a Superpower.

[Burnum]

I've been thinking, with how much Australia contributes to ISAF-A, and how they hold a special relationship with the US, Canada and the UK, three major NATO members, how about inviting them into NATO?

I'd support it. Indonesia makes me nervous (currently, the likelihood of an Indonesian Invasion is nil but things change.).

It will also replace the out dated ANZUS treaty.

[whhyy]

I'd support it. Indonesia makes me nervous (currently, the likelihood of an Indonesian Invasion is nil but things change.).

We don't need NATO membership to deter an Indonesian invasion. If they tried to invade us today Indonesia would be turned into an American pond.

[Thanatos]

Can't we just come up with a better acronym? Then everyone's happy.

[Fluttershy]

as an American id be in favor of it...but would the aussies even want it? Plenty of Aussies dont even really care for Americans aswell (although ive never met an American who DIDNT like aussies )
I mean I honestly cant think of any situation where the USA wouldnt step in and help Australia if they needed it. NATO imo would just add unnecessary obligations to the aussies. What would they gain?

[Farnan]

as an American id be in favor of it...but would the aussies even want it? Plenty of Aussies dont even really care for Americans aswell (although ive never met an American who DIDNT like aussies )
I mean I honestly cant think of any situation where the USA wouldnt step in and help Australia if they needed it. NATO imo would just add unnecessary obligations to the aussies. What would they gain?

I think the latest survey said 90% of Australians like Americans, and 75% of Australians like America the country...


Also, to Guderian's Duck: Georgia and Ukraine are hardly North Atlantic, and neither is Slovenia or Hungary. If you consider the Baltic and Mediterranean the Atlantic I guess you got the rest covered, but barely.

[Fluttershy]

I think the latest survey said 90% of Australians like Americans, and 75% of Australians like America the country...


Also, to Guderian's Duck: Georgia and Ukraine are hardly North Atlantic, and neither is Slovenia or Hungary. If you consider the Baltic and Mediterranean the Atlantic I guess you got the rest covered, but barely.

I dont suppose you could link me to that? (I dont doubt you at all im just curious to see those poll results)

and while now i think "plenty" might be an exaggeration...(my bad!) I suppose what I mean is that the aussies might not want to get involved in an alliance like that as they dont really need it.

I basically support the idea im just not sure whether the Australlian people would be fans of it

[Niles Crane]

I've been thinking, with how much Australia contributes to ISAF-A, and how they hold a special relationship with the US, Canada and the UK, three major NATO members, how about inviting them into NATO?

I know Australia is not in the North Atlantic, but that part of the name seems outdated by the real world (especially how NATO's biggest operation is in Afghanistan, and the Baltic States can hardly be called Atlantic) and Australia can be a valuable member.

As the Australian representative of TWC, I must say I decline your generous invitation.

[Exarch]

while it sounds nice, most nato countries are too far away
if anything, australia should seek an alliance with the superpower at her doorstep:china.

[Burnum]

while it sounds nice, most nato countries are too far away
if anything, australia should seek an alliance with the superpower at her doorstep:china.

China would be even more unreliable then America.

As the Australian representative of TWC, I must say I decline your generous invitation.

Why?

i mean it just seems like common sense to be allies with your neighbours

Our Neighbors are either Third-world Dictators or so small that any military contribution would be insignificant.

[Niles Crane]

China would be even more unreliable then America.



Why?

We should be developing our relations with Asia further rather than in Europe.

[whhyy]

We should be developing our relations with Asia further rather than in Europe.

I agree.