Mithras and Christianity

[Noremac]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithrai...d_Christianity

Did Mithraism have a big effect on Christianity?
Like December 25 was when Mithras was born and he was born from a virgin.

[IronBlood]

The Church made December 25th the celebration of the birth of Jesus to compete with Mithras not to mimic him, I believe.

Also the birth of the two are somewhat similar though :hmmm:

I'll have to do some more reading/

[finsternis]

I thought that 25 of December was when Ra (Egyptian sun god) was born. the church took it to convert Egyptians easier (you cannot just tell people to stop believing what they do. So they took their culture and religion and Christianized it). Same goes for a bunch of other pagan religions in Europe and Africa.

[hellas1]

Hey all,

Mithraism was big during the early centuries of Christianity.

One point though:

Biblical Christianity or New Testament Christianity was and IS not the same as the denominations we have today.

Many doctrinal and traditional innovations have been added on in the course of time.

My suggested books for you to read to get the real skinny on what I'm talking about are:

The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop: He discusses pagan mixture and at times a direct pagan lift from Paganism to Christianity within Catholicism only.

Pagan Christianity? by Frank Viola: He discusses pagan mixture within the Protestant circles.

O.K.? Do an Inter-Library loan and read them if your too poor or cheap.
hellas1

[Serious Spamurai]

I thought that 25 of December was when Ra (Egyptian sun god) was born. the church took it to convert Egyptians easier (you cannot just tell people to stop believing what they do. So they took their culture and religion and Christianized it). Same goes for a bunch of other pagan religions in Europe and Africa.

It was Horus, but the Horus=Jesus theory is horribly flawed, there is no specified birth date and several other fabricated features. But anyways, Jesus wasn't born on December 25th, it was just common for Pagan religions to have feasts/festivals/celebrations in December, so the church just went with it.

[Ummon]

Symbols are never composed in such simple ways.

It's like a map, though. If Jesus was in New York, Mithras would be in New Jersey, and Zeus for example in California.

[Erwin Rommel]

if only TD was here

[Erwin Rommel]

if only TD was here

sorry I meant ThiudareiksGunthigg

[Ummon]

Actually, comparisons between Isis and Mary are widely reported in the past. It is just a different kind of similarity.

if only TD was here

The Great Expert.

[Serious Spamurai]

Apart from the whole clay penis-not a virgin thing, that's a pretty big difference.

[Ummon]

In the case of Mary it was the Spirit.

Now consider what it is the psychological relationship between a clay Penis and an emanation of God. Apparently none.

On the other hand, Sun Gods especially in Egypt, were represented as having one tube protruding from the Sun Disk (a sort of penis, yes), from which wind erupted.

This symbol is also present in the deliriums of madmen, including the famous Schreber.

Wind is one of the representations of the Ruah Elohim.

Etc.

Similarities in these issues, are rather complex and multifaceted, and they emerge only through deep study.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithrai...d_Christianity

Did Mithraism have a big effect on Christianity?

According to the scholars of Mithraism, no.

Like December 25 was when Mithras was born and he was born from a virgin.

Sometime around Dec 25 some pagans celebrated the feast of Sol Invictus. Those pagans were not Mithraists. Mithraists came to associate Mithras with Sol Invictus - the sun god. They largely associated him as a sponsor/friend/ally of Mithras - which is why so many Mithraic sculptures show him greeting Mithras, embracing him or shaking his hand. It seems that the Mithraists regarded Sol Invictus as associated with their cult, but not part of it. How the worshippers of Sol Invictus regarded Mithraists is unclear.

What is clear is that Dec 25 was Sol Invictus' festival. Mithraists only celebrated it as part of their association with Sol's larger and more popular cult.

The point to be noted here is that this is the beginning and end of Mithraism's association with Dec 25th. It was not a Mithraic festival, just something Mithraism piggy-backed on in a vague way. Much as Christianity did later.

Christians had no idea when Jesus was born, but came to adopt Dec 25th as the time when they celebrated his birth, from the mid-Fourth Century onwards. This was because this was the festival of the "Unconquered Sun" - though they never claimed this was really when he was born. They chose this date because of its pagan associations, just as Mithraism had. But they did not choose it because of Mithraism. Both were small, marginal religions that focused on this date because it made them more mainstream.

Was Mithras born of a virgin? No. The Roman God Mithras was born, fully formed, from a rock. There is absolutely no evidence of him being born any other way. The Persian god Mithra was, in some stories, born of a woman who swam in a lake with centuries old god-semen floating in it (!!), but modern Mithraic scholars agree that there is no connection between this Persian god and his Roman namesake, apart from his name and his silly Smurf-style hat.

[basics]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I get the impression that you guys presume to think that Christianity only started from around the time of Jesus' advent on this planet. For sure the name came about when those in Antioch came to be known as Christians and by whom is not important.

What is important is that all who now bear that name and them that never, I mean pre-Jesus saints, were and are of the same saving faith, that faith stemming from the belief that Jesus Christ would come, in the case of the early saints, or Old Testament saints, and that He did come in the case of them within the New Testament.

But both are exactly the same. Both are what is called Justification by Faith and it began the moment Abel offered God a lamb as his sacrifice. So to compare what is no more than a copy, a false copy of the original and then maintain that these are the originals, is a false assumption.

Why do I say that? Well where are they all now, these religions that had no ground to stand on, no experience of God to lean on? If not dead and buried what is left lives on within false Christianity. How do I know? Well I only have to look to Scripture for one answer but prayer is another.

This is the difference between them that exist on signs, idols and false dating and them that live by faith, for by faith is the only method that God chose from the beginning to be worthy of the name Christian or sainthood, priesthood and the adoption as sons. There isn't any other.

And whether you believe Scripture or not, it is God's way to salvation, every chapter and verse leading to the need of the promised Saviour, even in the dead letter. What these other versions did was take on the basis and add what appealed to man, replacing God with men, and who can deny that the same thing has happened within what is called the church.

And if Israel down through the ages is any example, that which it typified is more or less the same. By that I mean that not all Israelites were true of the promises, just so that which is called by denominations, the church is also of the same breed. They are too, not of the promise. Their affiliation is just as cultish as the dead religions they incorporated.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I get the impression that you guys presume to think that Christianity only started from around the time of Jesus' advent on this planet.

Ummm - yes.

[MrMofo]

correct me if im wrong, but wouldnt the pre-jesus saints simply be really really super nice jews?

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

correct me if im wrong, but wouldnt the pre-jesus saints simply be really really super nice jews?

Eh?

No, really.

[Markas]

Doesn't the Koran say Jesus was born in the summer? At least thats what someone told me.

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

Parallels between Christianity and ancient Pagan religions

Reasons for the Pagan-Christian similarities

Implications of the Pagan-Christian similarities

I think it's undeniable the Catholic Church borrowed a lot from pagan cultures and it's also interesting to note how the concept of the Trinity came into being in the first place and how it's similar to the concept of Egyptian gods, etc. The implications and interpretations depend on your perception and beliefs.

Markas, I haven't heard anything of the sort... However, Muslims do believe that he was born of a miracle birth (but no date was given).

[Markas]

[
Markas, I haven't heard anything of the sort... However, Muslims do believe that he was born of a miracle birth (but no date was given).

Meh, he was probably talking out of his ass. Drinking and theology don't mix I guess.

[Ummon]

Probably then Aztecs have been robbing Egyptian mythology as well, because parts of their mythology are really analogous to the Set-Osiris(+Horus) dispute.

:wink:

Certain themes are merely recurrent in human cultures.