shield wall

**crsutton** · August 15, 2008, 04:47 PM

What is the benefit of shield wall? Higher defence? Does it have any effect when a unit is attacking or is is strictly a defensive formation? Tell me the best time to use it? What is the best way to break it? Does the AI ever use it?

Thanks.

**Templar Knight** · August 15, 2008, 05:12 PM

yes i would also like to know what are the benefits to using the shield besides the fact it looks cool

**Icedie El Guaraní** · August 15, 2008, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by crsutton

What is the benefit of shield wall? Higher defence? Does it have any effect when a unit is attacking or is is strictly a defensive formation? Tell me the best time to use it? What is the best way to break it? Does the AI ever use it?

Thanks.

Yes when i set the custom battles in defe/AI and me the Attcker and mostly if they are outnumbered they use the ability, yea is a defensive formation and like templar said it looks cool, the benefits are they get tired slower tan the attacker, the fight last longer, and you could easely break it with a cavalry charge on the rear!!
When i use this formation the AI outflank like never before!!

**August** · August 15, 2008, 05:41 PM

It is EXTREMELY useful against head-on heavy cavalry charge.
Tight, defensive stance prevents the HC from penetrating the formation, leaving them on the outside edge, in the fight they are very likely to lose.
If you know that unit will be hit by enemy HC in the front, this is the formation you want to have.

As for breaking it, it's fairly easy. While it's great face to face cav repellent, it lowers the effectiveness of a unit in a classic infantry/infantry fight. So engaging them with an equal infantry unit in regular formation would do fine.
Also, formation is unwieldy, so flank/rear does wonders here.
Lastly, missile fire from the rear or right flank(no shield on the right) should massacre these tightly packed troops. Don't get me started on a flaming ammunition... One flaming boulder in the midst of the unit and they are gone.

**Oddball_E8** · August 15, 2008, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by August

It is EXTREMELY useful against head-on heavy cavalry charge.
Tight, defensive stance prevents the HC from penetrating the formation, leaving them on the outside edge, in the fight they are very likely to lose.
If you know that unit will be hit by enemy HC in the front, this is the formation you want to have.

As for breaking it, it's fairly easy. While it's great face to face cav repellent, it lowers the effectiveness of a unit in a classic infantry/infantry fight. So engaging them with an equal infantry unit in regular formation would do fine.
Also, formation is unwieldy, so flank/rear does wonders here.
Lastly, missile fire from the rear or right flank(no shield on the right) should massacre these tightly packed troops. Don't get me started on a flaming ammunition... One flaming boulder in the midst of the unit and they are gone.

ah... and here i was thinking it worked like the old shield wall in RTW... where it was actually better against infantry...
no wonder my vikings have taken such a beating...

**Barser** · August 15, 2008, 07:03 PM

Yes they are best used against cavalry charges.. just like defensive cirkle.

**dopp** · August 15, 2008, 10:48 PM

Not my experience. Shield wall doesn't do anything (or much, hard to tell sometimes) against cavalry charges, it just clumps the men up closer so that more will get flattened with the initial impact. Only spear, light_spear or truly massive amounts of armor give a unit any sort of anti-charge resistance.

**Mauzeer** · August 16, 2008, 04:59 AM

Shield wall rocks against frontal cavalry charges and is quite effective defending castle (city) gates.

**CBCRonin** · August 16, 2008, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Mauzeer

Shield wall rocks against frontal cavalry charges and is quite effective defending castle (city) gates.

I have to agree with you. Placing a unit with shield wall in a gap or gate can hold an entire army at bay (for a time).

Spearmen won't do alot of damage to an enemies push through a gate, but it will allow archers, javelins and oil time to do significant damage.
------
I haven't played the Danes in a Campaign, so I can't comment extensively on the viking melee units shieldwall. I have tried it in custom battles to test their effectiveness, and as long as the flanks were well protected it held on an open field (though behind stakes). In a gate defense setup, they were pushed back more quickly than the spearmen's shieldwall... but they did more damage to the attackers.

**Icedie El Guaraní** · August 16, 2008, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by CBCRonin

I have to agree with you. Placing a unit with shield wall in a gap or gate can hold an entire army at bay (for a time).

Spearmen won't do alot of damage to an enemies push through a gate, but it will allow archers, javelins and oil time to do significant damage.
------
I haven't played the Danes in a Campaign, so I can't comment extensively on the viking melee units shieldwall. I have tried it in custom battles to test their effectiveness, and as long as the flanks were well protected it held on an open field (though behind stakes). In a gate defense setup, they were pushed back more quickly than the spearmen's shieldwall... but they did more damage to the attackers.

Is all up to the mass value of the unit just pick the heaviest of the infantries and give them the shield_wall ability and you´ll see!!
Shield wall rocks

**Oddball_E8** · August 16, 2008, 08:06 PM

one more thing ive noticed with shield walls tho, is that in close combat the men "push forward" more... so they kinda eat their way into the enemy formation as opposed to the usual standoff that we see in SS

**~~Gmaster Ryu~~** · August 16, 2008, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by Oddball_E8

one more thing ive noticed with shield walls tho, is that in close combat the men "push forward" more... so they kinda eat their way into the enemy formation as opposed to the usual standoff that we see in SS

I agree with Oddball totally here,

what I noticed was that a unit in shield wall when attacking will push out really deep into the enemy formation - basically like the Testudo formation did when you attacked with it,

I have reason to beleive that the shield wall was just a modified version of the Testudo formation without the top shields.

The fighting style means they win usually most of the time and retain fewer losses.

**Caesar Clivus** · August 16, 2008, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Gmaster Ryu

what I noticed was that a unit in shield wall when attacking will push out really deep into the enemy formation - basically like the Testudo formation did when you attacked with it,

That is why most infantry in the Basilea ton Romaion submod will have the shield wall ability. Roman spear units making a schiltrom =

**Oddball_E8** · August 17, 2008, 04:10 AM

i really dont like that they break formation tho... i would prefer it much more if they stayed in formation like they did in RTW.
now they usually break formation because of the various combat anims, but thats not the only reason... they do leave formation just to attack the enemy too and they really shouldnt...

**The Noble Lord** · August 17, 2008, 05:26 PM

Its main purpose is to defend your line against all out cavalry charge.
The infantrymen can much more easily defend themselves when they are standing shoulder to shoulder to each other with locked shields.

**duda** · August 17, 2008, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by crsutton

What is the benefit of shield wall? Higher defence? Does it have any effect when a unit is attacking or is is strictly a defensive formation? Tell me the best time to use it? What is the best way to break it? Does the AI ever use it?

Thanks.

Well, today i destroyed a General's bodyguard (seljuk) with a single unit of byzantine spearmen in shield wall formation. I find it efficient only for defending cavalry charges. and it is quite effective