To excom, or not to excom?

[jsktrogdor]

hmmm, im just curious what the board thinks about the situation. Im playing as genoa, really enjoying them. Ive got a hold of 6 settlements (3islands), everyone loves me, the pope loves me, even my enemies love me. I only have one stack, but its a fantastic one. I have been trying to invade venice for about 30 turns now...everytime I try to start the invasion, I just demolish one venitian stack and the very next turn the pope asks me to stop.

I really really really dont want to be excom'd. Ive had very bad experiences and even though I have that awsome single stack I know I dont have the economics to repel france and HRE. The pope has done this too me twice, im trying to beef up a general here but he's spent 20 years of his life sitting in genoa clipping his fingernails. What really chaps my ass is that im the popes best bud, his only ally, ive done everything he's ever asked hoping to avoid this. (and no he's not from venice). Lets face it, the pope is a wack job, but I was under the understanding that he would do things like this when he was trying to protect a christian faction from extermination...I havnt taken a single ventian settlement, I HAVNT HAD TIME! every time he jerks my leash I have to play clean up when the poor little crippled orphan baby venice sends 3 full stacks, one to each of my italian penninsula settlements....

Well, do I risk destruction at the hands of angry christians...or get it out of the way throw the pope a giant !@#$ you and invade venice?

[Sub-Zero120]

personally i think you should first just have an economic build and then once you are in a better financial position beef up your military and take them on.....i have one question though...why dont u just take out their city in one turn when that mission isnt going...all u need is some artillary

-Jonathan

[Sorkenlol]

What usually happens when you get excommed? There so, so so many factions I want to completely destroy cause they keep messing with me, but as soon as I retaliate the god damn pope threatens with excommunication and I have to give up while those french bastards are laughing me right in the face.

[Sub-Zero120]

pretty much your reputation goes down the drain and a crusade could be called on you...if u have a strong enough military and financial u should be fine if ur excomunicated

[Shadow8]

if venice starts it, risk it, if not, diplomacy is usually better (besides in M2tw.)

[Leutnant]

Not sure if this will work on your mod but in vanilla 1.3, I send a diplomat to the pope gift him some money . After that, I offer to attack the nation I want to conquer, and hit the gift button. If the pope accepts this "gift", I attack away unimpeded

[baabaaloo]

Wehn the pope tells you to stop, stand your stack next to Venice, the city not army, and wait to be attacked. Then they will get excom-ed and you can crusade them.

[Akimbo]

Bring some Artillery, anything, it lets you attack a city straight away. The pope can threaten you all he wants but by then you've already taken the city. Slowly wander over to the next city ( you have artillery, it will be slow whether you like it or not ^^ ) then when his threat times out, take the next city. Failing that, load your army onto some ships, then land at Rome and show the Pope what he can do with his silly hat...

[Musthavename]

Either use artillery or spies. Allows you to take a settlement in one turn, so it won't matter how much you annoy the Pope.

The other option is to gift the Pope a regular tribute. If relations are high, instead of threatening excommunication, the punishment will just be "will significantly reduce relations". Ofcourse, since this isn't excommunication, you now have two turns to attack at your will.

[AlexTheGood]

If there are not much Katholic Factions Left take the Pope out as fast as you can.... If there are much factions left wait untill they get few... My Thought...

[panurge]

If you manage to keep good rep with the pope, he'll never excom you. There's a glitch in the game... when you get a mission saying your relations with the pope will no be as good as they were, and you attack, the game shows the message "this will result in excom blah blah", but you won't get really excommed, you'll only lose some relations point. You only get excommed if that's what the mission penalty says, nevermind the warning, and that only happen if relations are not good. I destroyed the Papal allies, HRE, without getting excommed. You can conquer the city, send more gold to the pope on the same round and do it again the next one. Just make sure you're always at very good or above relations. Works better after you're rich, of course. You'll save time and money if you take 2 or 3 cities in the same turn. You'll fail the pope mission in the first city. After that you can conquer other places in the same round before getting a new peace mission the next round.

[Random Emperor]

tips call a crusade before being excom (or hope)
also check happiness when you get excom
also use excom as powerplay

[jsktrogdor]

UPDATE: well technicaly I took both paths of action. I decided to wait it out cause I recalled that the pope had died a turn before the end of the first command, so I assumed the new pope just felt left out so he made his own command. Bad assumtion, he waited a bit longer for the third command when it came I threw him the aforementioned "!@#$ you".

Its about 10 turns later and there have been some very close calls. The pope was tickling my balls at the southern border of florence with his massive, "funny hat army", I ended up paying him a tribute to keep him at bay (thanx for that tip). Aragon sent about a half a stack my way but I beefed up the settlement before they got here so they backed off. Right now a full HRE stacks is strolling through genoa but Im really hoping their just on there way to marsaille.

I checked the chart and I went 60 turns without gaining a new settlment . If you can qualify that as a turtle, its the longest turtle Ive ever held. Another interesting situation has arisen though, the pope is 67 years old, and theres only 2 cardinals lol. technicaly I represent 50% of the college.

[Nole4694]

THERES ONLY TWO CARDNAILS WTH MAN THAT HAS NEVER HAPPENED TO ME BEFORE WHAT DID YOU DO!!!

about the ecomunication though really I must be a spoof because I've never EVER had any down falls for being excommunicated other than some unrest and losing a few allies.

[jsktrogdor]

about the ecomunication though really I must be a spoof because I've never EVER had any down falls for being excommunicated other than some unrest and losing a few allies.

In one of my first campaigns I played as england, I got excom'd about 10 turns in. Flash forward 100+ turns and ive been excom'd about 90 of those turns three different popes excommunicated me and one delcared a crusade. Not once did I ever declare war on anyone, but the whole time I was at war with 6-9 different countries lol. By the time I had made it half way through poland no one was willing to accept an alliance so I was stuck in a constant state of expansion.

It worked out for england I guess, but Im terrified of it as milan because even though I've done a decent job of fortifing my economy It would only take 2 or 3 nations + venice to anhilate me. If the pope decides Im a threat to christianity im screwed. At least till I can get full control of Italy.

[jsktrogdor]

DAMN YOU VENICE!!! YOUVE STOLEN MY POPE!!!!!




really, he's my pope?! lol why does he hate me so? I guess I just have to find the most effective way of sending the message "You never side against the family!!!!" Maybe his kneecaps?

[attilavolciak07]

This shows the true dictatorships of the Papal States in M2TW!

[KoS]

When I first started playing, I always would piss myself if I was threatened with the ol' excom. Then once as the HRE, the Venetians betrayed me, and the Pope happened to be from Venice, and essentially kept me on a damned leash constantly. When Venice attacks me, I DON'T EVEN RETALIATE - not a single land or sea battle or blockade - and Il Papa still demands me to cease hostilities. That was the nail that broke the coffin's back. I sent two full stacks to Venetia to lay siege to the capital itself. Instant Excommunication, only from Ronco!

So then I could pretty much do whatever I wanted until the Pope kicked off, which was a good twenty years or so. Pwned Venice repeatedly until they were down to only Crete, eliminated Milan and Poland, and got some good progress against the French and Danes, split the Hungarian territories in half for an easy conquest later on, and got soooo close to driving the Byzantines out of Europe that it was barely funny.

At that point I came to the ultimate realization: In the long run, excommunication didn't really matter, because the Venetians are still absolute dicks when it comes to keeping an alliance.

[/stupid half-related story]

In your situation, I'd probably say that it depends on how strong Venice appears to be in areas where they could quickly dispatch troops from into your territory (so, basically, northern Italy). If they are weak and you can take care of those full stacks, then go for it. If Italy looks like a fortress, then keep kissing the Pope's holy feet... for now.

[will-o-the-wisp]

Use assassins. Send your Assassins all around, but especially towards Italy. Clear out all the diplomats, merchants, captains and priests around.

As soon as you are excommunicated, kill the pope. Get a friendly pope to the office. You will be forgiven. Oh and try to find the cardinals of other factions, and kill them. That way, sooner or later you will only have your cardinals in the office. Anyone that masses with you will be excommunicated.

Drawback is, well... I think you lose trust, but I am not really certain of that.

[jsktrogdor]

Let me run through everything wrong with this picture:



Do you see the mission at the left? Thats the pope requesting I stop attacking sicily, If you look to the right of that a bit...thats a sicilian army thats been moving in and out of rome for about a 5 turns. Looking directly above that, thats the popes funny hat army....guarding their border with me, as far as im aware the tribute is the only thing keeping them from invading me. Look to the right of that and you see the castle Ancona....I went to war with sicily when they attacked and sacked this castle while my army was in southern italy fighting the venitians.

Now move to the pope scroll, note the fact that the pope is from ...genoa(thats me) also things needed to be noted:
1)venice, long time enemy, has more relations with the pope than I do.
2)the sicilans, who backstabed me taking one of my settlements while I was distracted...have much much less favor with the pope...yet the pope asks me to stop attacking them???

(also: someone mind telling me how to set up a spoiler alert? That should make my posts much smaller.)