The Senate Mod

[Zarax]

After the long discussion about the possibility of having a carthaginian senate http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=174372 here, I decided to give the idea a proper try and finally managed to get it working with relatively few problems.

Senate missions works fine assigning proper units and giving semi-reasonable objectives after some tweaking all without crashes.
If this project will continue we will be able to get up to three factions with senate missions (more won't work due to hardcoding).

Attached you will find a proof of concept alpha version in which senate is available for romans and carthaginians.
The attached file is a very incomplete work, especially for Carthage.
You will get the missions but the Senate will be placed where the roman rebels were and Carthage gets roman rebels faction banners and description.
Other than that, other known issues are missing icons for some carthaginian units and roman senate offices assigned to non roman factions.
These issues will be eventually worked over.

How to install: just unzip and paste the folder in the XGM folder.

Here are some possibilities to be voted in the poll:

- Rome
Very much like in Vanilla, only without the other two factions.
If I will manage to track down the senate popularity tab crash (a relatively minor issue) this would be the campaign with the whole working hardcode minus the civil wars.

- Carthage
No crashes as there wouldn't be a senate tab (it might be possible but requires further research in UI).
You will still get missions, the Senate will be placed in Carthage and you will have to do the dirty work for them.

- Carthage (barcid)
Harder start version, all carthaginian north african cities would be given to the senate and you will start with the overseas ones, emulating the barcid/antibarcid division of the carthaginian society. Might be developed further if a punic historian will help.

- GCS
The GCS with the senate representing the chremoidean council or the oracle of Delphi, similar drawbacks as in Carthage.
The senate may or may not get a city.

- Gauls
The senate here would represent the confederation council or the Carnutes (druid council).
Ideas welcome

- The seleucid satrapies
Major rework of the mod, you would get missions as either Baktria, Parthia or Armenia from the seleucids.
This would represent the situation at game start, where those three factions were only parthially independent as seleucid satrapies.
The major cons would be loosing the seleucids as playable factions (doing otherwise would cripple AI) and some possible AI issues caused by the superfaction setting (AI is programmed to not attack the senate).
With some tweaking it could be quite interesting, especially if we let seleucid settlements around to rebel.

New: Here's the latest Alpha! http://www.wmwiki.com/hosted/xgm/senate.zip

[Scutarii]

I voted Carthage and Rome. They make the most sense, seeing as they both actually had senates that hindered/helped them on their way.

[TM Is Back]

Rome and Carthage just as Scutarii said.

[Zarax]

If you download the alpha let me know your opinions about it, senate missions can be slightly tweaked by editing descr_senate.txt.

[Archbaker]

This is a really great idea, and I'm not going to vote just yet, but,

an oracle of Delphi might add some flavour to a Greek mod. Perhaps it could affect more than one Hellenic faction?

Roman senate makes a lot of sense, and would probably make me more interested in playing Rome.

The Carthaginian option is interesting too, and I would definitely say that the Barcid version is the way to go since it gives the player a clear role in relation to the Carthaginian senate.

I would also love to play as a satrap faction. I never really play as the Seleucids anyway.

[Zarax]

Well, talking in concrete terms:

Rome: easiest job, basically we just need to put the senate where it belongs.

Carthage/GCS: Requires a full faction swap, doable but quite longer.

Seleucid Satrapies: Requires 4 faction swaps, definitely more than what I can handle alone but doable with some help.

More than one hellenic faction: In between the previous two options depending on how many factions.

[Scutarii]

TSE and GCS... I feel would be going too far. The Oracle was an advisory body at best, not a number of men capable turning the tide of a war (see: Hannibal). And seeing that a TSE 'senate' to the small factions surrounding would last all game, and historically they broke away and formed independant nations, doesn't make the idea fit well at all.

[Stilgar CG]

Zarax, I've been pessimistic about the Carthage senate idea and voted against in the first poll. Could not be more wrong than that.

I voted Rome and Carthage, of course. However, the barcid version seems like a very exciting option as well. I guess you mean setting up the second Punic war; you play as Hannibal, have a settlement in Iberia (e.g., Carthago Nova), one in Africa, one on Sicily, some fleet to ship men, and some starting cash. Right? That could be blast of a campaign!

[Zarax]

Well, in case the seleucids-as-senate option wins things can be made in a way that the seleucids would fall apart and the satrapies slowly take over.
Once the player/other satrapy pisses them off enough by taking their older settlements the good old outlaw event would appear.
Senate can be modded to be really easy or really hard on outlawing the subfactions, to the extreme "fail and you will be outlawed" starting from mission 2.

[Zarax]

The barcid version would give you the non african settlements, meaning that if you want an african foothold you're going to have to take it yourself.

The barcid/antibarcid conflict is more than just Hannibal, it was the neverending struggle between the merchant oligarchs (barcid) who wanted an expansionist Carthage and heavy colonialism versus the landed aristocracy (antibarcid) who instead focused on consolidating the african possessions.
Both factions were very powerful but their disagreements on military matters proved to be Carthage's undoing.

[Barend]

The barcid version would give you the non african settlements, meaning that if you want an african foothold you're going to have to take it yourself.

The barcid/antibarcid conflict is more than just Hannibal, it was the neverending struggle between the merchant oligarchs (barcid) who wanted an expansionist Carthage and heavy colonialism versus the landed aristocracy (antibarcid) who instead focused on consolidating the african possessions.
Both factions were very powerful but their disagreements on military matters proved to be Carthage's undoing.

Can it be made so that it's possible to be outlawed by the Carthaginian Senate? This could then make for a nice civil war. Otherwise there isn't much difference between the Carthaginian Senate idea and the Barcid one.

And how does this work for Rome? Because they would have only one city (Roma), maybe it is possible to have a major revolt after you're being outlawed so that the 'real' Romans have a change of surviving. If this is already the case when being outlawed, disregards this, haven't been outlawed that much in RTW vanilla, so don't know the effects that well.

[Publius Quirinus]

I voted for Rome, Carthage, Barcid, and Seleucid satrapies.

Rome is a no-brainer, I do miss the old Senate missions. Carthage and the Barcids would add a lot of flavour to a Carthage game. I'm especially looking forward to playing as the Barcids. For the Seleucid satrapies, not sure how historical or doable it is, but it would be pretty interesting too.

[Unknown Soldier]

If only there was a M2TW version of XGM.....

All factions have council of nobles missions.....

Then I stopped dreaming......great idea I voted Rome and Carthage....

[Zarax]

Just a little WIP teaser :


Senate offices can be edited into something more generic. I forgot to delete Rome from the text but as you can see it's not an Aedile anymore.

[TM Is Back]

Nice.

[Suppanut]

They maybe need some change in traits files to support these.

[Zarax]

I will check but I think the trait is managed by a different file.

[Suppanut]

They are "data\export_descr_character_traits.txt"(for characteristic, bonus, and Trigger) and "data\text\export_VnVs.txt"(for description of traits, epithet, and event window alert when get it.).

Here is name of relate traits in "data\export_descr_character_traits.txt"
1)Traits which use for office bonus
Aedile
Censor
Consul
PontifexMaximus
Praetor
Quaestor

2)traits after retire from office or "Ex" traits
notAedile
notCensor
notConsul
notPontifexMaximus
notPraetor
notQuaestor

Good news for you is all these traits not bar any culture from received them so you not need to change characteristic as well as their triggering condition are very simple and work in no matter faction which received appointment from senate. But I think you would like to change their bonus which in the top part of "data\export_descr_character_traits.txt". as well as quite sure that you would be like to tweak them especially in description.

[Zarax]

I will check the traits, thanks suppanut!

[Zarax]

The senate will always outlaw you, the difference is that with the barcid version they will have more territories to start with.
If you want a nice war against the senate you can give them territories as you expand so they will be a stronger opponent.