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    Default Cimbri unit description / preview

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    The Cimbri





    The Cimbri people were an enigma. Virtually unknown until they appeared around 120 BC during a mass migration in search of a new homeland. They had joined with the Tuetones and other tribes to swell their ranks to well over 600,000. They came in contact with the Romans, due to a dispute with Rome’s ally the Taurisci in Noricum in 113 BC. Respectfully they acknowledged the sovereignty of Rome and made a request of consul Gnaeus Papirius Carbo for land on which to settle. They offered themselves as auxiliaries to Rome should the need arise. Carbo informed them that there was no land in Noricum, but that guides would direct them to a rich and bountiful area a short march away. But Carbo had already planned an ambush to rid the world of these “barbarians”; an act that would cause Rome more pain than Carthage ever inflicted...and put Rome once again under threat of occupation.






    “The departed heroes entered a place called Walhalla, ‘The Hall of the Dead’. Here they passed the day in battle or in the chase. At night they dined to the sounds of celestial horns; those who had fallen in the combat of that day rising fresh and unwounded to join in the revelry, and quaff metheglin from the skulls of the slain.”
    From A History of All Nations, Samuel Griswold Goodrich.


    Known to have resided in the area of present day County of Himmerland, Denmark, on the northern part of the Jutland peninsula. Detailed historical authors and references still argue as to whether they were German or Celts. For this presentation they are to be referred to as Germania or Germans. They were of gigantic stature, (there are references to many of their warriors being seven feet in height), of fair complexion, fierce blue eyes and long yellow hair.


    The Cimbri are also known or reported to have wandered over the centuries. Tales of these fierce warriors come from Spain, France, Greece, Turkey, Bulgaria, Romania, Iran, Russia and Poland. Their name means ‘warlike’ and also ‘robber’. The (Germans) were one nation never to have been completely subdued by Rome. They stopped Roman expansion in Europe by annihilating three of Rome's legions, (Varus -Teutoburger Wald), and hundreds of years later, destroyed the once mighty 'Empire' that was Rome.



    Cimbri peoples worshipped the sun, moon and fire. Also;



    Thuisco - The founder of this race.


    Hertha - The goddess who dwells in a sacred grove by the lake.


    Sunna - The Germanic sun goddess. (Sunday)


    Mani - The Germanic moon god. (Monday)


    Tyr - The god of single combat. (Tuesday means Tyr's day.)



    Wotan / Oden - The head of all god's. He is associated with wisdom, war, battle and death. Also magic, poetry, prophecy, victory, and the hunt. A Germanic version of Zeus (Wednesday)



    Tor – God of thunder. The Germanic version of Mars. (Thursday)


    Freja – The god of love and fertility. Wife of Oden. (Friday)


    Frej- Brother of Freja and a god of love as well. (Friday)





    Germanic peoples were divided into states or communities. Each state into cantons and each canton into hundreds, or a hundred families. They fought within their cantons to prove their valour, but also to protect their chief (graf) or family patriarch.

    “In the choice of kings they are determined by the splendor of their race, in that of generals by their bravery. Neither is the power of their kings unbounded or arbitrary: and their generals procure obedience not so much by the force of their authority as by that of their example, when they appear enterprising and brave, when they signalise themselves by courage and prowess; and if they surpass all in admiration and pre-eminence, if they surpass all at the head of an army. But to none else but the Priests is it allowed to exercise correction, or to inflict bonds or stripes. Nor when the Priests do this, is the same considered as a punishment, or arising from the orders of the general, but from the immediate command of the Deity, Him whom they believe to accompany them in war.”

    The affairs of this nation were discussed at their riotous and often bloody gatherings.

    “Affairs of smaller moment the chiefs determine: about matters of higher consequence the whole nation deliberates; yet in such sort, that whatever depends upon the pleasure and decision of the people, is examined and discussed by the chiefs. Where no accident or emergency intervenes, they assemble upon stated days, either, when the moon changes, or is full: since they believe such seasons to be the most fortunate for beginning all transactions. They sit down as they list, promiscuously, like a crowd, and all armed. It is by the Priests that silence is enjoined, and with the power of correction the Priests are then invested. Then the King or Chief is heard, as are others, each according to his precedence in age, or in nobility, or in warlike renown, or in eloquence; and the influence of every speaker proceeds rather from his ability to persuade than from any authority to command. If the proposition displease, they reject it by an inarticulate murmur: if it be pleasing, they brandish their javelins. The most honourable manner of signifying their assent, is to express their applause by the sound of their arms.”

    These gatherings also had some interesting, shall we say extra-curricular activities. One treat for all the members in attendance was the youngest of the cantons would dance naked amidst drawn swords and presented spears. Practise conferred skill and grace at this exercise, which was a hazardous one, but was done solely for the pleasure of the spectators.

    The other habit was playing at dice when sober, or sometimes not so sober. There are accounts that before battles, and in the line, they were rolling the dice to decide on booty. What was incredible was that after all had been gambled away, they sometimes staked their freedom on a single roll. Amazingly, these terrible warriors would meekly subject to being bound and sold into servitude having lost all, land, wives, children and bondsmen at the game of chance.

    Bondsmen or slaves were given land and allowed to erect their own homes, but had to give a portion of crops or animals to their graf. They were also expected to defend him against his enemies. Most slaves and bondsmen were kindly treated by their grafs, far better than the Romans treated theirs.


    Every freedman was a warrior and was expected to have his arms ready at all times. He was also expected to be in shape, being overweight was regarded in the same manner as cowardice, not to be tolerated and would be punished.The Germania would not even conduct business without having their arms by their side.

    “In the assembly it is allowed to present accusations, and to prosecute capital offences. Punishments vary according to the quality of the crime. Traitors and deserters they hang upon trees. Cowards, and sluggards, and unnatural prostitutes they smother in mud and bogs under a heap of hurdles. Such diversity in their executions has this view, that in the punishing of glaring iniquities, it behoves likewise to display them to sight; but effeminacy and pollution must be buried and concealed. In lighter transgressions too the penalty is measured by the fault, and the delinquents upon conviction are condemned to pay a certain number of horses or cattle. Part of this mulct accrues to the King or the community, part to him whose wrongs are vindicated, or to his next kindred.”

    Germania also had a very strict view on the sanctity of marriage.


    “Yet the laws of matrimony are severely observed there; nor in the whole of their manners is aught more praiseworthy than this: for they are almost the only Barbarians contented with one wife...”




    “To the husband, the wife tenders no dowry; but the husband, to the wife. The parents and relations attend and declare their approbation of the presents, not presents adapted to feminine pomp and delicacy, nor such as serve to deck the new married woman; but oxen and horse accoutred, and a shield, with a javelin and sword. By virtue of these gifts, she is espoused. She too on her part brings her husband some arms. This they esteem the highest tie, these the holy mysteries, and matrimonial Gods. That the woman may not suppose herself free from the considerations of fortitude and fighting, or exempt from the casualties of war, the very first solemnities of her wedding serve to warn her, that she comes to her husband as a partner in his hazards and fatigues, that she is to suffer alike with him, during peace or during war. Thus the oxen joined in the same yoke plainly indicate, this the horse ready equipped, this the present of arms. The arms which she then receives she must preserve inviolate, and to her sons restore the same, as presents worthy of them, such as their wives may again receive, and still resign to her grandchildren.”

    Males and females were required to wait until they were both in their prime before considering getting married. In truth, the longer men kept their virginity the greater they were respected by their fellows, the thought being that staying chaste made them stronger and more muscular.

    “They therefore live in a state of chastity well secured; corrupted by no seducing shows and public diversions, by no irritations from banqueting. Amongst a people so numerous, adultery is exceeding rare; a crime instantly punished, and the punishment left to be inflicted by the husband. He, having cut off her hair, expels her from his house naked, in presence of her kindred, and pursues her with stripes throughout the village. For, to a woman who has prostituted her person, no pardon is ever granted. However beautiful she be, however young, however abounding in wealth, a husband she can never find. In truth, nobody turns vices into mirth there, nor is the practice of corrupting and of yielding to corruption, called the custom of the Age. Better still do those communities, in which none but virgins marry, and where to a single marriage all their views and inclinations are at once confined. Thus, as they have but one body and one life, they take but one husband, that beyond him they may have no thought, no further wishes, nor love him only as their husband but as their marriage.”

    The Cimbri also had a 'barbaric' view on children.
    "To restrain generation and the increase of children is esteemed an abominable sin, as also to kill infants newly born. And more powerful with them are good manners, than with other people are good laws."

    Women were very respected by these people, they were often were called to consultations on matters of peace and war.


    “In history we find, that some armies already yielding and ready to fly, have been by the women restored, through their inflexible importunity and entreaty, presenting their breasts, and showing their impending captivity; an evil to the Germans then by far most dreadful when it befalls their women.”





    The Cimbri Priestess



    "These women were considered seers, and accompanied the warriors wives. Barefoot, gray haired, dressed in white with flaxen cloaks fastened on with clasps and a bronze girdle, they prowled amongst the lines."


    During a battle some Priestesses, with the wives, would beat on hides stretched over the wicker bodies of the wagons, and produce an un-earthly noise. It has been recorded that this noise, was the most terror inflicting action that the Romans ever encountered. Many veterans actually refused to face it again.

    “They therefore carry with them when going to fight, certain images and figures taken out of their holy groves.”

    Another aspect of this nation was a very deep respect for their environment. Tales of emissaries returning from Rome report their disdain of the Roman cities and their bloated use of natural (stone / wood) materials. The Cimbri, rather, wished to live in harmony with their natural surroundings and would offer prayers to their deities for taking wood or stone.





    Warfare



    The most glaring disgrace that can befall them, is to have quitted their shield; nor to one branded with such ignominy is it lawful to join in their sacrifices, or to enter into their assemblies; and many who have escaped in the day of battle, have hanged themselves to put an end to this their infamy.”



    A Cimbri’s shield was his delight, well that and hacking an enemy to pieces. Grafs would embellish theirs with bright colours and the picture of an animal to display his own martial prowess. What at first were personal ensigns of valour became in time hereditary and eventually heraldry. The freedman refrains from decorating himself, his shield however is the object of his care and he decorates it with the liveliest of colours. To lose ones shield in battle was a mortal sin.


    “To wrongly accuse someone of losing their shield was said to be a most heinous crime punishable by fines, family excommunication, flogging or all three.”


    Most Cimbri fought naked except for a short mantle, which was a loose, sleeveless cloak or cape, others fought without their mantle and just their pants. Tearing or soiling clothing was avoided by these people, rather showing their gods that they, unadorned, were pure and would be noticed. The other advantage to fighting this way allowed unrestricted movement for throwing javelins or swinging axes, clubs or swords.




    “What proves the principal incentive to their valour is, that it is not at random nor by the fortuitous conflux of men that their troops and pointed battalions are formed, but by the conjunction of whole families, and tribes of relations.”



    They would fight in their cantons or hundreds, being that fighting alongside family and relatives would cause one to fight harder to prove their courage and prowess. These cantons would form in wedges or ‘boar heads’ to penetrate the enemy lines like a spear. Oddly, it was considered bad form to outfight ones graf on the field of battle. They would sacrifice themselves for their graf, but would not show him up.



    At the battle of Vercellae, Plutarch says the Cimbri measured just short of a 4X4 mile square and marched out to battle thusly;

    “The infantry of the Cimbri marched quietly out of their fortifications, having their flanks equal to their front; every side of the army taking up thirty furlongs. Their horse, that were in number fifteen thousand, made a very splendid appearance. They wore helmets, made to resemble the head and jaws of wild beasts, and other strange shapes, and heightening these with plumes of feathers, they made themselves appear taller than they were. They had breastplates of iron and mail and white glittering shields; and for their offensive arms every one had two darts, and when they came hand to hand, they used large and heavy swords.”


    Then……the sounds would start, from behind the army came a most unearthly noise produced by the women and priestesses. They would bang on hides stretched across the framework of their baggage wagons, then slowly the entire Cimbri would emit a low guttural roar that would rise in pitch and be enhanced when they put their mouths to their shields, and banged their weapons. Picture with your eyes closed…..300,000 men and 300,000 women roaring, wailing and banging on hides and drums, and tell me fight or flight wouldn’t enter your thoughts. For some enemy soldiers, once was enough, they refused to face it again.


    “Moreover, close to the field of battle are lodged all the nearest and most interesting pledges of nature. Hence they hear the doleful howlings of their wives, the cries of their tender infants. These are to each particular the witnesses whom he most reverences and dreads; these yield him the praise which affect him most. Their wounds and maims they carry to their mothers, or to their wives, neither are their mothers or wives shocked in telling, or in sucking their bleeding sores. Nay, to their husbands and sons whilst engaged in battle, they administer meat and encouragement.”


    Germania women were not to be taken lightly. The above passage relates their familiarity of warfare. In battles with Rome, bodies of women, equipped for battle, were found on the battlefield amongst the men. Florus and Plutarch relate what occurred during the battle of Vercellae in 101 BC.;


    “But as they pursued those who fled to their camp, they witnessed a most fearful tragedy. The women, dressed in black, stood on their wagons and slew all who fled; some their husbands, some their brethren and others their fathers. They strangled their little children, and threw them under the wheels and the feet of the cattle and then killed themselves.”




    { INSERT }

    The same occurred at Aquae Sextiae with the Teutone and Ambrone women. But most perplexing to the Romans was dealing with the dogs that refused to leave their masters and mistresses lifeless bodies.

    Also comes the story of Drusus, a Roman commander who, in 9 BC, was preparing to cross the Elbe in Germany, when a woman of gigantic stature and stern manner appeared in front of the troops and addressed him;


    “ Thou insatiable robber! Whither wouldst thou go? Depart! The end of thy misdeeds, and thy life is at hand!!”


    Dismayed by this apparition, Drusus retreated, and within thirty days had perished after complications due to falling from his horse.

    Their tribal confederates were the Teutones, Ambrones, Tigurines, Boii and the Helvetti. The known Cimbri Chiefs were, Boiorix , Gaesorix and Lugius.



    What has been reported as tactics used by the Cimbri but you will not see in game:


    The youngest and fleetest of foot would accompany the cavalry to;

    A) Rescue a wounded rider, or if the rider was killed outright, mount the horse and continue the fight.
    B) Follow the rider into a melee and strike an opponent / or opponents horse from below while they are occupied with their own rider.
    C) Hold to the edges to take down any fleeing enemy.

    It has been reported the Cimbri used chariots as did their Belgic cousins. However, it was observed that they were mainly used to transport troops into a fight, or pull wounded warriors out. It has also been reported that drums were mounted on these chariots which, when beaten, created a formidable sound.

    The Cimbri had, believe it or not......Battle Wagons. Carts / wagons were
    wrapped in saplings and drawn up close to the lines. During various stages of battle women, yes women, would pop up and fire arrows at the enemy. They would hide and pop up, hide and pop up. Remarkable for a group of 'barbarians' don't you think?




    The major battles between the Cimbri / Teutones and Rome





    Battle of NOREIA 113 BC;



    Consul Gnaeus Carbo’s army was defeated after he promised the Cimbri safe passage and land outside of Noricum. But guides he provided, led them into an ambush that backfired. A violent storm prevented a complete massacre and allowed some Romans to escape. Carbo, in disgrace, took his own life by drinking some poison.





    Battle of GALLIA NARBONENSIS 109 BC;


    Defeat and death of Marcus Junius Silanus.



    Battle of BURDIGALA 107 BC;


    Gaius Cassius Longinus Ravalla: Initially successful against the Cimbri, he was killed in an ambush by the Helvetti and Tigurini. His subordinate,C. Popilius Laenas, was forced to surrender and returned to Rome with less than four thousand survivors. This is the battle which produced the painting of “ Romans under the Yoke”. A 19th century painting showing the triumph of the Helvetians over the Romans after the battle. On the left side holding a sword, Divico, the leader of the Helvetians.


    {INSERT}




    Battle of ARAUSIO 105 BC;


    Quintus Servilius Caepio: idly sat by while the Cimbri wreaked havoc around Gaul. Gnaeus Mallius Maximus: was sent by the Senate with six legions and auxiliaries and ordered to take command of both armies. However, Caepio, feeling that Mallius was inferior in social position, refused to obey or join his command.
    The Cimbri and Teutones returned and came across the Romans arranged in two separate camps, with two full armies functioning completely independent of one another. Maximus, wishing to avoid conflict, entered into negotiations with the Germani. Caepio, pompous ass that he was, unilaterally attacked and had his army annihilated and his camp ransacked. Maximus’ army suffered the same fate .

    “A Roman legate, Marcus Aurelius Scaurus, was captured and brought before Boiorix,. Scaurus was not humbled by his capture and advised Boiorix to turn back before his people were destroyed by the Roman forces. The king of the Cimbri was indignant at this impudence and had Scaurus executed by being slowly roasted alive in a wicker cage.”

    Estimates range from 120,000 to 140,000 were slaughtered, the worst carnage suffered by Rome since Cannae. October 6th was ever after called a ‘Black Day’ on the Roman calendar.

    The Teutones didn't push their advantage, but went back to Gaul, while the Cimbri went to Spain. This gave the Romans and their general Marius three years to prepare to face the frightening Swarm from the North.



    Battle of Aquae Sextiae 102 BC;


    Gaius Marius, having been elected Consul and appointed Imperator, agreed to fight the Tuetones and their Ambrones allies here. A well-planned ambush resulted in a complete rout by Rome. It is said that the bones of the Teutones, Ambrones and allies that littered the field, were used for years to build fences.

    Of note here was the way Marius managed to prepare his men for the upcoming battle. He forced them to camp and build strong fortifications. He required that all of the men would take turns on the walls so that they may get accustomed to the sight and sounds of the enemy. The Teutones actually got bored waiting for Marius to exit his fort, so they marched towards Rome. It took six days for them to pass the Roman encampment, all the while calling out to the men in the legions“ "Have you any messages for your wives, for we will be with them soon.”

    After they had passed, Marius ordered his men to follow at a discreet distance, always stopping and erecting solid camps each evening. Eventually the Teutones had enough of this cat and mouse game and their leader, Teutobod, challenged Marius to a fight. Marius informed Teutobod that it wasn’t normal practice to grant such a request, but on this one occasion he would consent and named the time and place. A well placed ambush resulted in a complete rout for Rome.





    TEUTONE WOMEN DEFEND THE CARS




    The captured women committed mass suicide, which passed into Roman legends of Germanic heroism;
    “By the conditions of the surrender three hundred of their married women were to be handed over to the Romans. When the Teuton matrons heard of this stipulation they first begged the consul that they might be set apart to minister in the temples of Ceres and Venus; and then when they failed to obtain their request and were removed by the lictors, they slew their little children and next morning were all found dead in each other’s arms having strangled themselves in the night.”




    Battle of Vercellae 101 BC - (Battle of the Raudine Plain)

    Marius along with Quintas Catalus (and a fellow named Sulla) combined to face the Cimbri and their Tigurini allies at the same place Hannibal fought his first battle on Italian soil. Catalus was charged with guarding the passes in the Alps until Marius arrived. When the astounding numbers of the Cimbri were sited, he realized that he could not hold the mountains and withdrew to the valley below, in two camps on either side of the Athesis river. The Cimbri reaching the peaks viewed the Romans below and…..

    “ …came on with such insolence and contempt of their enemies, that to show their strength and courage, rather than of necessity, they exposed themselves quite naked to showers of snow. They climbed up through heaps of ice and snow, from thence placing their broad shields under their bodies they slid from the precipices along the vast slippery descents.”

    “After they had pitched their tents a little distance from the river, they surveyed the passage and determined to fill it up. Like giants of old they tore up the neighbouring hills, they brought trees pulled up by the roots, heaps of earth and massy rocks to the river and damming up its course with bulky and heavy materials. Upon this, the greatest part of the Roman soldiers, being very much affrighted, left their camp and fled.” …

    across the river except for some brave soldiers who stayed and defended their fortifications. The Cimbri admiring their courage, and after making them swear an oath on their ‘brazen bull’, let them go. Once again the Germani approached Rome to request a place to live, but Marius scoffed at their request. The Cimbri ambassadors chided Marius and promised severe penalties when their allies the Teutones arrived. Marius replied they are already here. Then the captured Teutone king, Teutobod, and his princes were brought out in chains and the emissaries returned to their camp in disbelief. Boiorixrode to Marius and told him to appoint a time and place for his demise. Marius, of course, said this was not a common practice of Rome but, this one time, he would consent.

    As the savage hosts worked themselves into a frenzy, Marius and his legions approached from the east, with the sun and wind at their backs. Why from that direction would soon become evident. As the Romans entered the field, the great Cimbri army set itself into a motion that likened to the billowing of a furious ocean at high tide. So that their ranks might not be broken, those in the forefront bound themselves together with iron chains attached to their belts.”

    This surging tide of blond giants the Roman foot soldiers attacked first with their javelins. The breech this created allowed the Romans to get inside the Cimbri lines with their swords. As the battle progressed, a big cloud of dust rose from beneath the combatants' trampling feet. The light wind at the Romans' backs blew this dust mostly into the faces of the Cimbri. The hot August sun also began to hinder their sight. To shut out the harsh glare, the heavy-sweating Cimbri warriors now and then lifted their shields at the sun, thus exposing more of their large bodies to the Romans, who slew them almost at will.”



    If you were to tally the figures, Rome put seven armies and over 252,300 men into the field. Five armies were wiped out and it's estimated between 185 to 190,000 were killed or captured.

    The Cimbri and Teutones, ( plus allies ) put over 300,000 armed men into the field. Outside of the 6,000 Cimbri that had stayed behind in Belgae territory, all were slain or taken prisoner. It was reported that 90,000 prisoners were taken back to Rome. That means 210,000 were slain. But that doesn’t take into account all the women and children who also died , which conservatively, would be 2 to 1. The Cimbri and Teutones did have a measure of revenge however, later their descendants were the bulk of the gladiators who revolted with Spartacus.



    What began as a migration for nothing more than some land to live on , had resulted in genocide and mass suicide.






    Last edited by Arnspac; December 17, 2008 at 09:00 PM. Reason: Enhance
    Cu mândrie, under the Patronage of leif_erikson


    There is no disease I spit on more than treachery.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Cimbri discussion thread

    Thanks!

    Presumably you've seen all the Cimbri units?

    The preview thread is here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=158900

    Also Leif has done a load of skins too....http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=157058

    The faction is nearly finished
    Last edited by tone; August 11, 2008 at 12:40 PM.


    Under patronage of Spirit of Rob; Patron of Century X, Pacco, Cherryfunk, Leif Erikson.

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    Arnspac's Avatar Miss You Calvin
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    Default Re: Cimbri discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tone View Post
    Thanks!

    Presumably you've seen all the Cimbri units?

    The preview thread is here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=158900

    Also Leif has done a load of skins too....http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=157058

    The faction is nearly finished
    Yes I have seen those excellent previews and am working off the unit card gallery right now for Mullatothrasher. I was curious whether the 'white ' was not screen friendly for the unit card. I also have another piece which states the Cimbri used 'white' shields adorned with most vivid colours ( orange and red I believe ). But an electrical storm poofed a weeks worth of work so I'm retracing, but almost caught up.
    Last edited by Arnspac; August 12, 2008 at 09:53 PM.
    Cu mândrie, under the Patronage of leif_erikson


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    Mulattothrasher's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Cimbri discussion thread

    Arnspac, if you have time, do a search for the word Cimbri in the forums and you'll find some good info already here, but its scattered all about iirc:hmmm:
    Last edited by Mulattothrasher; August 13, 2008 at 03:35 PM. Reason: spelling

  5. #5

    Default Re: Cimbri discussion thread

    Their wives, who would accompany them on their expeditions, were attended by priestesses who were seers; these were grey-haired, clad in white, with flaxen cloaks fastened on with clasps, girt with girdles of bronze, and bare-footed
    We have them as units!



  6. #6

    Default Re: Cimbri discussion thread

    Well, officers.


    Under patronage of Spirit of Rob; Patron of Century X, Pacco, Cherryfunk, Leif Erikson.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Cimbri discussion thread

    Check here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=92224

    Beware not all the pics of units labelled as Cimbri on the web are such. You've got some Franks, some Gauls and so on there.


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    Mulattothrasher's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Cimbri unit description thread

    Giving this a bump so I can find it easier (and make sure Arnspac stays workin!)

    Your info in the first post looks wonderful so far and for the most part I do not see any glaring errors in info so thats a great start on the Cimbri !

  9. #9
    aja5191's Avatar TWC Bearcat
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    Default Re: Cimbri unit descrition DONE !

    I would agree - it looks very strong.

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    Default Re: Cimbri unit descrition DONE !

    Arnspac, I hope you have kept a good memory, or better yet a catalouge, for Cimbri information sources.

    Chances are once the Cimbri are previewed you'll have some folks wondering about where you found certain info. Keravnos and I have faced that in our previews and its awesome when you can direct the curious fans to a books or sources and its great PR to have a solid answer for them.

    So keep your sources handy or bookmarked or whatever just in case fans get curious and want to read up on the faction themselves. Great job so far man!

  11. #11
    Arnspac's Avatar Miss You Calvin
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    Default Re: Cimbri unit descrition DONE !

    Thank you. MT

    Yup , yup , yup
    Majority I have posted here;
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...t=92224&page=9

    Have also kept backups on desktop which I will burn to cd.

    Some I am holding back on to really spring a surprise on anyone who inquires.
    Last edited by Arnspac; October 07, 2008 at 09:08 PM.
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    Default Re: Cimbri unit description DONE !

    Just some things I wonder, did they call there goods Thor, or Tor, Fria or Freja, Woden or Oden, Hertha or Njärd or Njord or should we use the latin name wich is Nerthus and could you give me those sources as I would love to rade aboute it

    THe whole text itself is an art itself, so much good information and so for me unknown, thank you.
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  13. #13
    Arnspac's Avatar Miss You Calvin
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    Default Re: Cimbri unit description DONE !

    Maxim...thank you...most of my links are here in the spoiler.


    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...26#post3586426

    This one ; http://books.google.ca/books?id=4nRk...Denmark&source

    Northern Antiquities has a wonderful discussion on Thor and others, start at the table of contents and enjoy.

    A History of All Nations from the Earliest Periods to the Present Time. That's a mouthful... best to download in pdf and then search to page 394 for Germany.

    Also David Faux and the Cimbri Chronology is excellent reading.

    But the Cimbri or for that matter most Germanic tribes left no written record. So historians have had to rely on the Greek or Roman writers for information. I found that many felt there was a strong bond between the northern Germanics and Denmark , Finland and Sweden. I also have found strong evidence to support a theory that the Cimbri originally came from the British Isles, and oddly returned. But that will spoil my teaser for the forum.


    PS Maxim does Thuisco ring any bells ?
    Last edited by Arnspac; October 07, 2008 at 09:09 PM.
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  14. #14
    apple's Avatar Searching for 42
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    Default Re: Cimbri unit description DONE !

    Quote Originally Posted by arnspac View Post
    Maxim...thank you...most of my links are here in the spoiler.


    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...26#post3586426

    This one ; http://books.google.ca/books?id=4nRk...Denmark&source

    Northern Antiquities has a wonderful discussion on Thor and others, start at the table of contents and enjoy.

    A History of All Nations from the Earliest Periods to the Present Time. That's a mouthful... best to download in pdf and then search to page 394 for Germany.

    Also David Faux and the Cimbri Chronology is excellent reading.

    But the Cimbri or for that matter most Germanic tribes left no written record. So historians have had to rely on the Greek or Roman writers for information. I found that many felt there was a strong bond between the northern Germanics and Denmark , Finland and Sweden. I also have found strong evidence to support a theory that the Cimbri originally came from the British Isles, and oddly returned. But that will spoil my teaser for the forum.


    PS Maxim does Thuisco ring any bells ?
    Actually no , it's the only one that I had not heard of and the little
    information I found when I quickly searched on Wikipedia didn't help.
    Son of Legio
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    Default Re: Cimbri unit description DONE !

    Great stuff


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    apple's Avatar Searching for 42
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    Default Re: Cimbri unit description DONE !

    Nordic - Germanic god's:

    Tor: God of thunder. The Germanic version of Mars
    Tyr: The god of single combat. (Tuesday means Tyr's day.)
    Oden/Wotan: The head of all god's. He is associated with wisdom, war, battle, and death, and also magic, poetry, prophecy, victory, and the hunt. A germanic version of Zeus (Wednesday)
    Mani: The Germanic moon god. (Monday)
    Sunna: The Germanic sun goddess. (Sunday)
    Freja: The god of love and fertility. Wife of Odin. (Friday)
    Frej: Brother of Freja and an god of love as well. (Friday)
    Balder: The god of beauty and light, Killed by Loke
    Loke: Giant/god, known as a cheater, murderer and thief.

    These are just the most important god's and there most important specialties, there is also a large amount of minor god's.
    Son of Legio
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  17. #17
    Arnspac's Avatar Miss You Calvin
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    Default Re: Cimbri unit description DONE !

    Hey thanks MV
    I think that this would be a welcomed addition.
    Cu mândrie, under the Patronage of leif_erikson


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  18. #18

    Default Re: Cimbri unit description DONE !

    All fantastic.
    We decided in the end to go with the alternative translation / rendition of the description of the cav with chainmail and axes:

    So many authors spoke of this event and the Cimbri it is impossible here to mention them all. There is considerable ethnographic data embedded in the writings of the Classical
    authors, as reflected in the content of the above paragraph. It might be worth quoting
    Plutarch (XI.3) again in that he described the Cimbri with, their great stature, their light blue
    eyes, adding that the Germans call robbers “Cimbri”. He also described their attire
    for battle as follows, They wore helmets representing the heads of wild beasts, and other
    unusual figures, and crowned with a winged crest, to make them appear taller. They were
    covered with iron coats of mail, and carried white glittering shields. Each had a battleaxe;
    and in close fight they used large heavy swords. In the “Ancient Greek Online
    Library” the translation differs in some essentials. Here instead of a battle - axe, every
    one had two darts and further chain mail was not noted but instead, breastplates of iron
    (p. 13). This situation is actually very common. Documents written in Greek or Latin
    often have wildly diverging English translations.


    Also could you add in the descriptions about the priestesses please?

    Writers report a custom of the Cimbri to this effect: Their wives, who would accompany them on their expeditions, were attended by priestesses who were seers; these were grey-haired, clad in white, with flaxen cloaks fastened on with clasps, girt with girdles of bronze, and bare-footed; now sword in hand these priestesses would meet with the prisoners of war throughout the camp, and having first crowned them with wreaths would lead them to a brazen vessel of about twenty amphorae; and they had a raised platform which the priestess would mount, and then, bending over the kettle, would cut the throat of each prisoner after he had been lifted up; and from the blood that poured forth into the vessel some of the priestesses would draw a prophecy, while still others would split open the body and from aninspection of the entrails would utter a prophecy of victory for their own people; and during the battles they would beat on the hides that were stretched over the wicker-bodies of the wagons and in this way produce an unearthly noise
    By the way, I think we were planning on making the heavier units - Celtic heavy swordsman and Celtic heavy spearman units Ambrones?


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  19. #19
    Arnspac's Avatar Miss You Calvin
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    Default Re: Cimbri unit description DONE !

    Not sure what you want changed regarding the Priestess.



    From tone;
    Also could you add in the descriptions about the priestesses please?

    Quote:
    Writers report a custom of the Cimbri to this effect: Their wives, who would accompany them on their expeditions, were attended by priestesses who were seers; these were grey-haired, clad in white, with flaxen cloaks fastened on with clasps, girt with girdles of bronze, and bare-footed; now sword in hand these priestesses would meet with the prisoners of war throughout the camp, and having first crowned them with wreaths would lead them to a brazen vessel of about twenty amphorae; and they had a raised platform which the priestess would mount, and then, bending over the kettle, would cut the throat of each prisoner after he had been lifted up; and from the blood that poured forth into the vessel some of the priestesses would draw a prophecy, while still others would split open the body and from aninspection of the entrails would utter a prophecy of victory for their own people; and during the battles they would beat on the hides that were stretched over the wicker-bodies of the wagons and in this way produce an unearthly noise



    From description post spoiler ;


    Cimbri Priestess


    Having survived a tidal wave of howling, half crazed behemoths , any prisoner would look forward to slavery rather than the Priestess. These women were considered seers, and accompanied the warriors wives. Barefoot , gray haired, dressed in white with flaxen cloaks and a bronze girdle. They carried swords and would seek out the prisoners and place wreaths on their heads. Then they would lead them to a two handled earthenware jar big enough to hold about thirty litres. Beside the vessel was a platform that the priestess would mount, and after bending over the kettle, would cut each prisoners throat after he had been lifted up. From the blood that would pour forth, some priestesses would draw a prophecy. Others would take the body and slice it open to inspect the entrails and proclaim a victory for their people. During the battle some with the wives would beat on the hides stretched over the wicker bodies of the wagons, and produce an un-earthly noise.
    It has been recorded that the noise of the women and priestesses plus the shield bashing and howls of the warriors, was the most terror inflicting action that the Romans ever encountered. Many veterans actually refused to face it again.
    Last edited by Arnspac; October 12, 2008 at 07:42 AM.
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  20. #20
    Arnspac's Avatar Miss You Calvin
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    Default Re: Cimbri unit description DONE !

    For the Noble Cavalry you want this ;

    Cimbri noble cavalry

    The noble cavalry must have struck terror into whomever they faced. Averaging over six and a half feet tall, and then wearing helmets adorned with animal heads or feathers to look even bigger. They carried their spears and perhaps a dart or two, but also an axe, which they wielded with deadly force. Often the fleetest of their freedmen would sprint alongside to protect them and tag team foes. They have been described as not having impressive mounts but very well trained. When the Cimbri confronted Marius, 15,000 cavalry “ moved as like one, turning to the right so perfectly as to not leave one behind or out of place”



    Changed to this ?;

    Cimbri noble cavalry



    The noble cavalry must have struck terror into whomever they faced. Averaging over six and a half feet tall, they wore helmets representing the heads of wild beasts, and other unusual figures, and crowned with a winged crest, to make them appear taller. They were covered with iron coats of mail, and carried white glittering shields. Each had a battleaxe and in close fight they used large heavy swords. They have been described as not having impressive mounts but very well trained. When the Cimbri confronted Marius, 15,000 cavalry “ moved as like one, turning to the right so perfectly as to not leave one behind or out of place”
    Last edited by Arnspac; October 19, 2008 at 07:01 AM.
    Cu mândrie, under the Patronage of leif_erikson


    There is no disease I spit on more than treachery.

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