Top Tips for the Templars?

[Henry707]

Afternoon All,

I have been playing the Templars for the first time & have found the challenge to be a tough one. I am expanding but very slowly.

I have peace with the Byzantines & am paying for peace with the Egyptians so thought I should be comfy in dealing with Seljuks but they have put up quite a fight....

So far, I have not done well in open battle with their armies but held my own in sieges. They are simply too mbile for me with too many arrows!

Also, I don't want to keep getting dragged into their naff hinterland with all the hills & distant cities - I want to keep my kingdom defensiable so I can grow money-wise - that's what I like.

Interested inf anyone had any tips for winning with the big cross dudes?

Have I made a mistake not taking out Eygpt to the south - I have not joined crusades to stay on their good side & ensure that they honour my 2 free entry ticket passes to the Pyramid tour....

Henri

[Musthavename]

What I tend to do with the Templars is this:

-First turn, use your diplomat to ally with the Pope and declare a Crusade on Gaza, but don't join it
-Slowly take as many rebel lands as you can, with the Eygptians occupied in the south you should be able to get Antioch, Edessa, Aleppo, Adana & Damascus easily enough, maybe even Acre if you're lucky
-Try and ally with the Turks & Byzzies to secure your back
-When the Crusade option becomes available again call it on either Jersualem or Cairo and then wipe out the Eygptians
-With Eygpt & the Levant under your control you should then have a pretty good defencive position. You can then focus on the Khwarezmeans, Seljuks or Byzantines, or even go onto Sicily.

Personally, Eygpt's lands are far wealthier than the Turks (especially Jersualem, Cairo & Alexandria). Which is why I always go for them before the Turks. I don't tend to take the war to the Khwarz though, as I like having a buffer against the Mongols. Taking Baghdad and the coastal towns around the Arab Penisula is generally the most i'll do to them.

[Mune]

Here's what I've done in my so-far successful campaign with the Templars (turn 73, H/H):

Ally with Papal States as mentioned, and I called my first crusade on Antioch. Using your starting army (pretty much all of it) join the crusade, hire some crusade mercs (fanatics, etc.) and take Antioch. Now you've got two newly-improved generals with which to continue your expansion. Also, I was lucky enough to get a Hospitaller guild offered here at Antioch before turn 20, possibly because of this crusade, which ended up being a lifesaver.

The plan is to conquer the coastline from that castle just west of Antioch (I always forget the name of it) down all the way to Alexandria. Covert all coastal settlements to towns/cities, and all those without ports (like Damascus, which I now have as a Citadel) become castles. This will get you to quite a high income, with good protection at your back. Gain naval superiority and use boats whenever it will shorten travel time (which is most of the time). Well anyway thats your main goal, now continuing on how to get there...

After Antioch is captured, go on a siege-spree versus any rebel settlements you can grab. Don't worry too much about the inland settlements, but plan on grabbing Aleppo, Damascus and that other castle south of damascus away from the coast... I forget the name. Keep a reasonably sized stack in your northern settlements to deter the Turks from becoming aggressive. Again, hope to hell that you get that Hospitaller guild in Antioch (or anywhere) as otherwise you'll be fighting with low-class units for a while (or turtle for growth).

Make sure to call the next crusade, and do it on either a rebel settlement which you can siege in the same turn (and hold) or on one of the Egyptian settlements (if no crusade-able rebel settlements are left in your area). If you call a crusade on the Fatamids, don't join it (possibly later) and let the other Catholics punish them for a while. The Fatamids will be expanding south of Cairo and south/southeast of the Gaza area. They will take Jerusalem if you don't, and if you do, they may call war on you for it (but not likely if they are being crusaded against) so be aware of that.

You will eventually come into war with the Fatamid's, but don't be in a hurry to start. Make sure they have been weakened by multiple crusading armies first as they seem to be able to gain full stacks pretty quickly. Keep an eye on the settlement you called a crusade on for distraction purposes (I picked Gaza) and get ready for a lucky opportunity with an army buildup in your closest city. I was lucky to have France, Spain and Sicely bring Gaza down to little defenses, at which point I joined the crusade and promptly conquered the weakened castle with much less effort. Of course, then I was at war with the Fatamid's and the crusading armies were soon to leave. This is where things got difficult, and where I was very glad I had that Hospitaller guild (soon to be two, with one of them being the top-level).

Make use of crusades as often as possible, to either get the other catholics to do your dirty work or to build up your generals. Go to war with only one neighbor at a time, and keep decent stacks in the border towns of your neutral neighbors (like the Turks, until the Fatamids are dealt with). Ally with other catholics who have good reputation. Convert your inner-coastal settlements to cities, and your non-coastal settlements to castles (as needed). I had even placed a 10-chivalry general in Damascus while it was still a town, got it up to ~14000 pop, then converted into a castle, then fortress, then citadel. Pretty soon I'll have dismounted french archers to compliment my Hospitaller/Trebuchet army.

[Navajo Joe]

Now the Militiary stuff is very important, but also remember recruit Priests, you need to turn the land to Christian and to counter imams. Also send your Merchants into Egypt, very profitable resources in the Nile Valley and nr El Aquaba and build your income.

[Henry707]

I agree - I have been flooded with Imans - as soon as I 'take care of them', more pop up. Every hotel room is full in my empire - fully of Eygtpian Imans..

One good thing the Pope seems to have unconditional love for the Templars - nice.

Henri

[Mune]

Yeah, Imams aplenty for sure, and with me playing this campaign 'with honor' I'm not using assassins either. So pretty much at any given time I've got 4-8 Imams wandering my territory. So yes indeed always keep the maximum number of priests you can create, most of them will be 'on defense' (keeping your own cities Catholic).

However, I happen to find that wandering Imams in my territory are hardly the threat I had once considered them. In most of my campaigns, I've got a trained assassin or two devoted purely to defensive murder, mostly priests not of my religion who dare to wander my lands. But now that I cannot kill them, I am finding that perhaps I need not have feared them so much. My lands Catholic rating ranges between 50%-90%, the lower rated ones having a priest or two to help out. I make church building a fairly high priority, but a smple Church in all of your Settlements seems to do the trick.

The pay off is that I've got a nice pious bunch of priests (and 5 Cardinals) who needn't do much more than sit around (little micro needed). I'm in line to have two of my Cardinals up for papal election in a few years, and they are age 39 and 46.

The extra religious unrest has made seemingly no difference so far, as I've never had problems with rebellions or rioting. Even in newly captured lands, I've been able to choose 'Occupy' every time with nothing below 90% civil order. In total, I've had 6 or 7 heretics to deal with, but only 2-3 of them being mine turned heretic (I was keeping the Turks and Egyptians heretic-free for the extra piety). And hey, I say at least it gives the priests something to do.

[Mraughh]

WTF??

look at the ad in the pic. Probably not the best place to advertise for arab dating in the Templars thread lol.

[Warspite_TW]

WTF??

look at the ad in the pic. Probably not the best place to advertise for arab dating in the Templars thread lol.

[htothehh]

Wipe out Egypt first, secure your south and west, then wipe out Turkey. That's what I did with my TK campaign. When you're fighting Egypt, be on Turkey's good side. When you're fighting Turkey, be on everyone else's good side.

[AnayaS]

A few tips:

If you decide to not rush to Jerusalem make sure you place your spy there as he will increase the unrest in the city, ultimately making it rebel. This will force Egypt to waste time and resources trying to take it back. It can be done at least a few times before they get a decent garrison and/or governor there. If you can afford it place a priest near Jerusalem to cause some religious unrest.

Antioch can be captured without a fight, just take the faction heir with his army and lay siege to it the first turn. Build everything available in Tortosa and send his way. The Grandmaster will keep down the fort at Tortosa. This is made even simpler if you ally with the pope and request a crusade against Antioch, sure you will only get pilgrims (fanatics) but it will mean free upkeep for the army. Just sit out the siege, chances are pretty good that they won't sally out and you will get Antioch, one of your future powercenters, for free.

Money will be and should be tight in the beginning but try not to lose money every turn and you should be alright.

If the Byzantines decide they want to screw with you immediately assemble a force and whack them over the head at Nicosia. It is easy to defend and can give you an extra boost in units.

Note: the above is with Real Recruitment, YMMV. I also recommend you try out Lord_Calidors mod in your next game.

[Sarpedon]

I Love this thread. Pretty much just reiterating what others have said, but my strategy for Antioch (a must and just golden with the early Hospitaller guild) is to hit the city with grandmaster and a couple spear guys. The defenders will sally and your armored horse general can just annihilate the enemy, but you'll need a little strategic intervention from foot soldiers.
I also take Cyprus early (first turn or two), but that is more preference than any real strategic value. Then move south to Jerusalem, take it and you'll have some massive defensive battles in front of you. Get some priests going, get theo guild to help with conversions.
I don't rely too heavily on the crusade. What I will do is use it for Gaza maybe 30 turns in or have the Europeans crusade towards Cairo to hit Egypt in the breadbasket and relieve some of the pressure.
Also ally with turks/byzantine to relieve northern front and take alliance very seriously

[Accius]

It has been my experience that priests in Islam-dominated territories invite the computer to send in equivalent numbers of imams. So... fewer priests, fewer imams.

[Dead Guy]

If you play with grim reality you have little choice. You simply must recruit every priest you can. It also means you have extremely poor troops most of the time.

I conquered the fatimids first, without crusades because I wanted the challenge. I had to fight five field battles on my way to jerusalem where I was outnumbered every time. I relied completely on mercenaries, all cav armies. Turkopoles, Alan light cavalry and Armenian cavalry (but don't keep those guys for long, they're 600/turn!). Recruit them from Adana, Cyprus and antioch/tortosa region. Then I got hospitallers guild and replaced the armenian cavalry with hospitaller knights. I found the fatimids fielded mainly spear stacks which you can easily outmanouver with horse archers, make them exhausted, spread them out and then start charging with you light cavalry, pull away immediately and then charge them in the rear when they turn to chase with some heavy cavalry. You'll crush 2000 men with 600 horse, and lose less than 50 if you're careful.

The Turks are tougher to fight with HA based armies because they tend to field HAs themselves, and a lot of turkish archers. You'll win but you might lose a few more men.

[Henry707]

Dead Guy,

You're right on the casualty figures - I went in against the Turks with some basic troops & lost a few battles. My archers were just outclassed.
Sounds like the Egytpians are a different proposition with spears - I'll see how I get on there!

Henri

[moosey]

lol yeah, those bloody horse archers, i find them the most annoying unit type in the game as although they will never decimate youre force you will spend most of the battle chasing them around the map, lol.

If youre playing BGR priests are an absolute priority as you can only start recruiting decent units at above 75% religion

[Henry707]

General question for the floor - is it worth taking up a Templar army slot with a Great Cross. I love the look of them & I understand that they have a morale effect which is really useful to strengthen a line of spears.

Also, many of my soldiers use them to store bits & bobs, sleeping bags & any souvenirs purchased, Antioch snowglobes, Egyptian lucky feet etc. In fact, if they don't work, we as an army are going to have to do some serious cutting back in present buying/looting.

Do they work or am I better of just sticking in another line of spears?

Henri

[Dead Guy]

Well, even discounting the morale effect for your cowardly spear line, you get 60 (on huge) unbreakable reasonably well equipped men, with a large charge-shield in front of them :p
If you don't need a speedy army, I'd say go for it. If you rarely have your own units rout though there might be little point to it.

[Henry707]

Thanks Dead Guy,

And what about the extra storage space!!!!!

Henri

[Dead Guy]

Invaluable, surely :p Find some heretic to crucify and you'll have even more space on the wagon.

[Mune]

I found what I think is the best use of the Great Cross: Siege defense. Just stick one of these near your front gate, where the enemy will come crashing through. Of course, I can't exactly measure the effect it had, but I've done this three times now and none of my gate-defenders routed, even when they were losing in one of the gate battles.

On a sidenote, my Templar campaign just turned nasty. I was getting comfy after having taken all the Egyptian settlements I wanted and brokering a ceasefire with them (made them give me a city for peace) when all of a sudden, BAM, Jihad on Jerusalem. Now I'm defending from all sides, the Moores to the west, Turks to the north, Kwarezmian to the east (they are #1 on military right now) and Fatamid's to the south (they broke the ceasefire, but aren't doing to well). I've killed off 5 Jihad armies so far, and defended two sieges on border towns as well. Looks like my turtle/economy phase will have to wait.