Eastern Asia Total War

[CaesarBR]

Hi guys,

This project has been in my mind for some time, but I was waiting a little more advancement in the moddability of cities to start it, now that Argantonio’s work with it has advanced a lot I’ve decided the time has come.
Eastern Asia Total War is a project of a mod for Medieval 2 Total War Kingdoms that aims to portray with total historical accuracy and impartiality the history of the Eastern parts of Asia from 1100 AD to 1350 AD, a period of glorious empires and peoples. I’d be willing to divide the leadership of this project with two good and reliable members of TWC.

Some information regarding the project as it is so far: (It is not set in stone and any suggestions and corrections will be accepted and taken into account.)

The Map: (This is not the final heights map; it is a prototype one filled with errors, the final one is yet to be done)





Eastern Asia Total War:

Timeframe: 1100-1350/6 months per turn/500 turns

Factions: 28, 25 Playable

Japan: 1

Japan {Shinto}

Korea: 1

Goryeo {Shamanism}

Manchuria: 2

Khitan Empire (Liao Dynasty) {Buddhism?}
Jurchens {Buddhism?}

China: 1

Chinese Empire (Song Dynasty) {Chinese Folk Religion}

Himalayas and Western Xia: 2

Tangut Empire {Buddhism?}
Tibet {Buddhism}

Mongolia: 1

Mongols {Tengriism}

Eurasian Steppe: 1

Kara-Khanid Khanate {Islam}

India: 11

Ghaznavid Empire {Islam}
Sindh {Islam}
Ghor {Islam} (Emergent, Unplayable)
Chauhans {Hinduism}
Pratiharas {Hinduism}
Chandellas {Hinduism}
Western Chalukya Empire {Hinduism}
Chola Empire {Hinduism}
Pandyan Kingdom {Hinduism}
Kalachuris {Hinduism}
Pala Empire {Buddhism?}

Indochina: 5

Khmer Empire {Buddhism}
Bagan Kingdom {Buddhism}
Dai Viet {Buddhism}
Champa {Buddhism}
Kingdom of Dali {Buddhism}

Indonesia: 1

Srivijaya Empire {Buddhism}

Independent: 1

Independents (Unplayable) {Minor Religions}

Special Slot: 1

Mongol Empire (Unplayable) {Tengriism}

The Mongols faction will become the Mongol Empire faction in case it unifies Mongolia, this transformation will make the Mongol faction extremely organized, advanced and powerfull. This script will work very similarly to the Kalmar Union script of M2TW Kingdoms.

Religions: 10

Buddhism
Hinduism
Islam
Chinese Folk Religion
Shinto
Tengriism
Shamanism
Taoism
Confucianism
Minor Religions

Cultures: 7

Eastern Asian: Japan, Goryeo, Khitan Empire, Jurchens, Tangut Empire and Tibet
-
Chinese: Chinese Empire
-
Indochinese: Kingdom of Dali, Dai Viet, Champa, Khmer Empire and Bagan Kingdom
-
Indonesian: Srivijaya Empire
-
Indian: Chauhans, Pratiharas, Western Chalukya Empire, Chola Empire, Pandyan Kingdom, Kalachuris, Chandellas and Pala Empire
-
Islamic: Ghaznavid Empire, Ghor, Sindh and Kara-Khanid Khanate
-
Steppe Nomadic: Mongols

Obs: I’ve decided to set the Chinese Culture apart from the Eastern Asian Culture to better portray the fact that the Chinese were usually not influenced by neighbor cultures at those years, due mainly to the philosophic concept of civilization the Chinese had.

Obs²: I’d include more cultures, but the hardcoded limit is 7.

Mod Team:

MaximianusBR (Leader and a lot of other functions)
IVIarkI2I (Skinner and 2D Artist)
RollingWave (Researcher)
Chaghatai Khan (Book Finder)

Members are needed to work on the following areas:

-Modeling
-Skinning (IVIarkI2I)
-2D Art (IVIarkI2I)
-Mapping (MaximianusBR)
-Coding
-Scripting
-Research (MaximianusBR and RollingWave)

As I said previously, I’m willing to share the leadership with two good and reliable members of TWC, if anyone is interested tell me and I’ll analyze the request.

Any suggestion and opinion regarding the project will be welcomed...

Peace and prosperity to you all…

[Son of Mao]

You already have a mod that is going nowhere you do not need another.

[CaesarBR]

You already have a mod that is going nowhere you do not need another.

You say it 'cause you haven't seen the dev.forum of my other mod!

The fact that I already have a mod is the reason why I want to share the leadership of this one with two guys...

[Augustus Lucifer]

Interesting project, best of luck. I find it a bit odd however that Srivijaya, Kediri, Polonnaruwa, et al are included though, since archaelogical evidence of their existence is in infant stages, let alone historical documentation. I think you'll find it hard to substantiate a lot of factions as a decent template for a faction, you might be better off with less factions and insuring they have diversity and detail, than adding insignificant factions whom besides a couple paragraphs on wikipedia, you'd need an indigenous sage to get any information on at all.

Don't expect much in the way of help, myself and a member of the B.C. team are working on similar projects, you'll need to do a good bit of work before finding willing helpers I'd guess.

Cheers,
Augustus

[CaesarBR]

Interesting project, best of luck.

Thank you, best of luck with your mod too...one may think this mod is really similar to your's, but looking more carefully it can be seen that the difference is big, since your mod focus on all Asia and Eastern Europe, while this mod here focus particularly in the Eastern half of Asia...So both mods are not even concorrents in my opinion as they offer completely different experiences...

I find it a bit odd however that Srivijaya, Kediri, Polonnaruwa, et al are included though, since archaelogical evidence of their existence is in infant stages, let alone historical documentation. I think you'll find it hard to substantiate a lot of factions as a decent template for a faction, you might be better off with less factions and insuring they have diversity and detail, than adding insignificant factions whom besides a couple paragraphs on wikipedia, you'd need an indigenous sage to get any information on at all.

Indeed this factions are the harder ones, but I think it can still be done by studiyng more deeply the history of Sri Lanka, Malaysia and Indonesia in that period...

Don't expect much in the way of help, myself and a member of the B.C. team are working on similar projects, you'll need to do a good bit of work before finding willing helpers I'd guess.

Cheers,
Augustus

Maybe you're right, to be sincere i don't care much wether it will be me or any other fellow in here the one who will do an excellent mod focused on Eastern Asia, all I care about is to see a great mod focused on Eastern Asia for M2TW, Eastern Asia as a region and the TWC center community deserves it...

Cheers...

[Augustus Lucifer]

Thank you, best of luck with your mod too...one may think this mod is really similar to your's, but looking more carefully it can be seen that the difference is big, since your mod focus on all Asia and Eastern Europe, while this mod here focus particularly in the Eastern half of Asia...So both mods are not even concorrents in my opinion as they offer completely different experiences...

Indeed, my mod is a bit different than yours.

Indeed this factions are the harder ones, but I think it can still be done by studiyng more deeply the history of Sri Lanka, Malaysia and Indonesia in that period...

This is something you'll want to think very very hard about. I've talked with my professors of east asian history before about the particulars of finding indonesian and Philippines history before colonization, and they've all denoted it as scarce and insubstantial. Even the couple who have traveled to Indonesia and the Phillipines themselves to pursue this line of research, have attested the information available is scarce, and when I mentioned what I'd need on the areas, they said there just wasn't that detailed breadth of work done. So in essence what you'd probably end up with, are blatant conjectures taking very little pieces of evidence, a painting or a reference to the country in a chinese manuscript, and working with the exaggerations of what this information implies, written as fact. You might also if you were to journey there find some images that could be thought of as a warrior, but it could be the people who drew those images were not trying to depict in any way a military. There's literally no translated historical texts from a person of the nationality, so what it ends up being is a pretend history, rather than an actual one, because it takes very little evidence and makes it more than it is.

Maybe you're right, to be sincere i don't care much wether it will be me or any other fellow in here the one who will do an excellent mod focused on Eastern Asia, all I care about is to see a great mod focused on Eastern Asia for M2TW, Eastern Asia as a region and the TWC center community deserves it...

Good luck, and don't aim for anything too obscure, because with the current faction roster you'll find that to flesh out most of those in any respectable way, you'll be spending 5-10x as much work on the research than on the modding itself, which is already a huge task. Keep in mind that historians take decades to filter down information, and centuries more to properly interpret it, so doing justice to people as badly documented as some of those will be nigh impossible.

Cheers,
Augustus

[CaesarBR]

This is something you'll want to think very very hard about. I've talked with my professors of east asian history before about the particulars of finding indonesian and Philippines history before colonization, and they've all denoted it as scarce and insubstantial. Even the couple who have traveled to Indonesia and the Phillipines themselves to pursue this line of research, have attested the information available is scarce, and when I mentioned what I'd need on the areas, they said there just wasn't that detailed breadth of work done. So in essence what you'd probably end up with, are blatant conjectures taking very little pieces of evidence, a painting or a reference to the country in a chinese manuscript, and working with the exaggerations of what this information implies, written as fact.

Indeed you have a point here...

You might also if you were to journey there find some images that could be thought of as a warrior, but it could be the people who drew those images were not trying to depict in any way a military. There's literally no translated historical texts from a person of the nationality, so what it ends up being is a pretend history, rather than an actual one, because it takes very little evidence and makes it more than it is.

Indeed I know it, it will indeed be very complecated and it may get vague, probably this three factions will end up being unplayble due to tehir genericity, but still they can be interesting adversaries, I'll think about it a little more...

Good luck, and don't aim for anything too obscure, because with the current faction roster you'll find that to flesh out most of those in any respectable way, you'll be spending 5-10x as much work on the research than on the modding itself, which is already a huge task. Keep in mind that historians take decades to filter down information, and centuries more to properly interpret it, so doing justice to people as badly documented as some of those will be nigh impossible.

FONT=Book Antiqua]Cheers,[/font]
Augustus

I don't agree as the mod only have three factions with obscure informations, they are, Polonnaruwa, Srivijaya Empire and Kingdom of Kediri...it means three out of 28 factions...

You're really reasonable and respectfull in your words and have won my respect man...Cheers...

You can't possibly be talking about Rise of Empires.

Indeed, he doesn't know what he is talking about mate!

That mod is progressing well, and it is a pleasure to be on the team.

Indeed, a pleasure! I'm extremely glad to work along with you and the rest of the team at ROE!

Max, nice idea, I also have many ideas for mods but I don't have the time to do them all . I don't mind applying for one of the leader positions. I can get things organized for you.

Thanks!

ok, I know you and trust you, my friend, so yes, you are accepted as leader of EATW!

Will be a pleasure to work with you here too!

BTW Augustus, this problem related to those three factions can be solved by taking Indonesia out of the map making Indochina the southern limit and excluding Polonaruwa as a faction, can't it?

[Oghuz Khan]

Khara Khanid (Karahanlılar) waoov turkish faction
Good Luck ı loved khara-khanid
Khara-Khanid flag


Hakan: Faction Leader
Tigin: Faction Heir
Muhtesib: Princess
Bitikçi: Ambassador

[CaesarBR]

Khara Khanid (Karahanlılar) waoov turkish faction
Good Luck ı loved khara-khanid
Khara-Khanid flag


Hakan: Faction Leader
Tigin: Faction Heir
Muhtesib: Princess
Bitikçi: Ambassador

Thanks!

[Comrade the Colonel]

You already have a mod that is going nowhere you do not need another.

You can't possibly be talking about Rise of Empires. That mod is progressing well, and it is a pleasure to be on the team. Max, nice idea, I also have many ideas for mods but I don't have the time to do them all . I don't mind applying for one of the leader positions. I can get things organized for you.

[drakuli]

Interesting.
For initial research about Srivijaya, you can check out this forum: http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/inde...owtopic=155468

I'll try to get some other information for those guys. But however, I have to admit that the history records of Srivijaya is very scarce. Their strong point was their navy and in the end they were destroyed by Chola's invasion. After that there was rebellion among the smaller kingdoms that were once Srivijaya's subordinate. Perhaps you can make Majapahit as emerging faction starting from 1292 that replace Srivijaya (see http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...-Majapahit-era).

[CaesarBR]

Interesting.
For initial research about Srivijaya, you can check out this forum: http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=155468

Interesting, there are informations about their armies there?

I'll try to get some other information for those guys.

ok, thanks, if you suceed they'll be in as a faction!

But however, I have to admit that the history records of Srivijaya is very scarce. Their strong point was their navy and in the end they were destroyed by Chola's invasion. After that there was rebellion among the smaller kingdoms that were once Srivijaya's subordinate.[/QUOTE]

Indeed

Perhaps you can make Majapahit as emerging faction starting from 1292 that replace Srivijaya (see http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...-Majapahit-era).

Sorry but no, 1292 is really close to the ending year of the mod and I'm trying not to make factions poping out of nowhere suddenly...

Cheers...

[Erwin Rommel]

oh another eastern asian mod? Hope this one succeeds.

oh yeah I need to confirm if this things for real

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luzon_Empire

[CaesarBR]

Augustus and others...

I've studyied the possibilities of changes in the map, and I see two options, one that would include Srivijaya as a faction and other that wouldn't, the one that would is a little more extend southwards then the one that wouldn't, the one that wouldn't can't be more northwards as it would cut the sea passage from India to China which would be innacurate and weird...In both possibilities Kediri would be excluded, due mainly to the fact that informations about Kediri are almost unexistant and Augustus has already said...

So both possibilities:

With Srivijaya as a faction:





Excluding Srivijaya as a faction:





The inclusion of Srivijaya will depend in the amount of information that exists about their army and Empire...

P.S: ALREADY DECIDED, Srivijaya will be included...

oh another eastern asian mod? Hope this one succeeds.

Thank you!

oh yeah I need to confirm if this things for real

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luzon_Empire

It is even more obscure then Srivijaya and Kediri...

[RollingWave]

I guess I could do some of the historical research, particularly on the Chinese side of things. (China / Liao / Xi-Xia / Korea )

If we start at 1100 you need to consider adding the Jurchens as a faction. because they were starting to rise within 10 year and overthrew the Liao by 1125, and then they took the northen part of the Song by 1127. they were the dominant empire in the area until some Genghis Khan dude rolled along.

in terms of military, both the Liao and Jin were a mix of light and heavy cavs as their primary forces. one of the more famous units was the Iron Buddas. a pure heavy shock cav where the cavalry man wore two layers of lamellar and the horses were completely covered in lamellar as well.

Song was much more infantry based. lack of horses is a major problem for them, they also adopted heavy cavs though it was more due to the lack of enough quality horses than actual usefulness. they were the primier faction in crossbows, seige engines and gunpowder weapons though. (and navy)

The Tangut people of Xi-Xia remain much more clouded. presumablly it was more a mix of Tibetian / Mongol and Chinese styles.

[Comrade the Colonel]

That would be great!

[CaesarBR]

I guess I could do some of the historical research, particularly on the Chinese side of things. (China / Liao / Xi-Xia / Korea )

It would be great RollingWave!

If we start at 1100 you need to consider adding the Jurchens as a faction. because they were starting to rise within 10 year and overthrew the Liao by 1125, and then they took the northen part of the Song by 1127. they were the dominant empire in the area until some Genghis Khan dude rolled along.

They're in from the beginning of the mod already, go to the faction list and see, below the Khitan Empire...

in terms of military, both the Liao and Jin were a mix of light and heavy cavs as their primary forces. one of the more famous units was the Iron Buddas. a pure heavy shock cav where the cavalry man wore two layers of lamellar and the horses were completely covered in lamellar as well.

Song was much more infantry based. lack of horses is a major problem for them, they also adopted heavy cavs though it was more due to the lack of enough quality horses than actual usefulness. they were the primier faction in crossbows, seige engines and gunpowder weapons though. (and navy)

Awesome!

The Tangut people of Xi-Xia remain much more clouded. presumablly it was more a mix of Tibetian / Mongol and Chinese styles.

Indeed you're right...

so, you want to join the team officialy as researcher fellow?

A decision have been done regarding Srivijaya Empire, it will be featured, we will do the best we can to make this faction as complete as all others...

[Comrade the Colonel]

I sure will

[IVIarkI2I]

Grat mod I will join I can make flags and skins

[CaesarBR]

Grat mod I will join I can make flags and skins

ok!

Join request glady accepted, my friend!

I would do it, but there seems to be a ton in common with yours and the proposal just below urs (calm before the storm).

But there is a lot of difference too, this one focus only in Eastern Asia...

as I've meantioned also in that thread, Tibet was split into various fiefs by this time, we don't know much about Tibet of this period except that it wasn't a centralized government. since the end of the Tibetan empire in 842 AD they weren't much of a faction at all and was absorbed pretty quickly by the Mongols.

Indeed, the Tibet faction will start with only one region, and the faction would need to be unified before it gets strong...

In turns, the Dali Kingdom was actually a more unique and clear faction in it's own right, it was a clear Chinese style kingdom that also had a mix of minority tribal influence and a truely special buddist realm. (their king often abdicated and spent their final years as monks)
It's a rich and special kingdom, almost like paradise on earth. (the modern province name is Yunnan, which means beyond the clouds, very fitting)

Indeed! We will portray it somewhat like this!

Join us as a researcher, it would be very good...