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  1. #1

    Default MORE GAY MEN NOW 'MARRIED WITH CHILDREN"!!

    <H1 itxtvisited="1">from http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26075383



    More gay men embrace marriage, fatherhood

    Changing laws, surrogacy programs create options for same-sex couples

    NEW YORK - The cost remains high, and a good lawyer is essential. Yet despite complications, the idea of becoming a biological dad with help from a surrogate mother is gaining allure among gay men as the status of "married with children" grows ever more possible.
    With same-sex marriage now legal in California even to nonresidents, and Massachusetts extending its 4-year-old gay-marriage policy to out-of-staters, in-wedlock parenting is suddenly a realistic option for gays and lesbians nationwide, even if their home state won't recognize the union.
    Fertility clinics and surrogacy programs report increased interest from gay men, while couples who already have children are getting married — or considering it — to provide more security for those kids.

    "We wanted our daughter to know her parents were married — that was the big thing for us," said Tommy Starling of Pawley's Island, S.C., who wed his partner of 12 years, Jeff Littlefield, on July 11 in Hollywood.
    Daddy and Dad
    Among those at the ceremony was their daughter, Carrigan, who was born in California two years ago.

    Starling said he and Littlefield had tried previously to adopt a child in South Carolina, but encountered anti-gay hostility and instead opted to become parents through a surrogacy program run by Los Angeles-based Growing Generations. Since 1996, it has matched hundreds of gay men with surrogate mothers who are paid to carry an implanted embryo produced from a donor egg fertilized with the client's sperm.
    "Our journey to parenthood was not easy, cheap or fun," Starling and Littlefield wrote in an account of their family. "The result, however, has been the most amazing experience in the world; being called Daddy and Dad by our loving daughter."
    For lesbian couples, biological parenthood is usually a far simpler proposition than for gay men, since there's no need for surrogacy and there are various options for becoming pregnant. A lesbian couple faces neither the cost of surrogacy, which can run as high as $150,000, nor the legal complications which call for a carefully negotiated contract with the surrogate mother.
    "All the realms involved with men are much more complex," said Gail Taylor, president and founder of Growing Generations.
    But Taylor believes the option of marriage will, over time, lead to more biological gay dads.
    "For future generations, knowing they can fall in love, get married, have a child — absolutely, that will become a way of life more than it is," she said.
    ‘Something to prove’
    Starling, 36, and Littlefield, 52, face the likelihood that their marriage will not be recognized anytime soon in South Carolina, one of 26 states with constitutional amendments banning same-sex marriages.

    In contrast, Joe and Brent Taravella, who are raising three children in South Orange, N.J., already have a civil union and are optimistic that New Jersey will soon join California and Massachusetts in legalizing same-sex marriages.

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    "As a couple with kids, you really see the importance of it, trying to get as many protections as you can," Joe Taravella said.
    They have a 2-year-old daughter through a surrogacy handled by Growing Generations, and twins born in May 2007 through a surrogacy arranged by a New Jersey lawyer, Melissa Brisman.
    "My relatives were screaming with excitement when they found out we were going to be parents," Joe Taravella said. "I think we still have something to prove, to show America we can do a great job with these kids."

    Becoming a biological dad
    Brisman, who specializes in reproductive legal issues, said laws dealing with surrogacy vary widely from state to state, as do the options for same-sex couples who become parents.

    "Legally, being able to get married will help in some states but not others," she said. "I would never tell clients to get married. ... But I tell them straight out, 'If you do get married, it's going to be easier."'
    The Taravellas (Brent has taken Joe's last name) both donated sperm — a fairly common practice among gay male couples who say they don't care which partner is the biological dad. Some other couples decide to have two biological babies simultaneously, each providing sperm and using two surrogates.

    Among the enterprises offering such services for prospective gay fathers is the Fertility Institutes, which has offices in Los Angeles, Las Vegas and Mexico, and plans to open a branch soon in New York City even though New York is among a half-dozen states banning paid surrogacy.
    "It's not going to happen in New York as the law stands now," said the Fertility Institutes' director, Dr. Jeffrey Steinberg. "You can't bring the surrogate into the state, but we can make the arrangements, fly the client elsewhere."
    Overall, Steinberg says inquiries from gay men to his offices have increased 30 percent in the past six months.
    "There are more couples that had been holding off because of the marriage situation who are now starting to show up," he said. "We've definitely seen an upswing."
    ‘Surrogacy is getting easier’
    For now, adoptions, rather than surrogacy, remain the most common way for gay men to become fathers, but Steinberg believes a shift is under way.

    "Adoption is not getting any easier — surrogacy is getting easier," he said. "You rarely hear horror stories about surrogacy."
    In fact, there are occasional surrogacy cases which become anguishing — including lawsuits by surrogate mothers seeking custody of the child, and wrenching cases in which triplets or quadruplets are conceived, and a debate ensues over whether any of the fetuses should be aborted.
    Lawyers say airtight contracts can head off such problems, but legal costs run high. Beyond that, there usually are medical costs in the tens of thousands of dollars, and fees to the egg donor and surrogate that together can exceed $25,000.
    Dr. G. David Adamson, director of Fertility Associates of Northern California and president of the American Society for Reproductive Medicine, says gay couples considering the option of surrogacy should receive thorough medical and psychological counseling, as well as candid legal advice.
    "What we've tried to do is have consent forms that make it very clear what the intentions of the people are," he said. "Who's going to be the mom, who's going to be the dad, what might happens if relationship ends, if someone dies."
    "If you don't have an exit strategy, the usual result is that you have potentially several years of litigation, which is extremely damaging to the child," Adamson added. "It's incumbent on everyone to be very thoughtful about entering these arrangements."
    A social support system
    The challenges of gay fatherhood can seem relatively less daunting in gay-friendly communities such as New York, where Jeffrey Parsons and Chris Hietikko are raising a 2-year-old son, Henry. They've also remained in touch with the surrogate mother, a lesbian who lives with her own family in Oregon.

    "As gay men, so much depends on where you live, what your social support system is like," said Parsons, a 41-year-old psychology professor at Hunter College.
    "Our child will go to school with other kids with gay parents," he said. "I had a job option upstate, but I knew he'd be only kid like that there."
    Parsons, who has been conferring with Hietikko about getting married, says he's a rarity among gay men his age — even as a youth, realizing he was gay, he was convinced he'd become a father.
    More typical are men like Jeff Littlefield, who said that in his 20s, "I'd completely given up on the idea of ever having a child."

    Littlefield was raised in Utah as a Mormon. In that family-focused culture, he regretted the prospect of not providing his mother with a grandchild.
    When he and Starling did have their daughter, they rushed out to introduce the infant to her ailing grandmother — who died just a few days later. The girl's name, Carrigan, is her grandmother's maiden name.
    "My mom was able to hold her," Littlefield said. "It was magical."
    © 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
    </H1>


    this is madness.. and its not even Sparta... I support gay marriage but this is too much, keep the children out of this....

  2. #2

    Default Re: MORE GAY MEN NOW 'MARRIED WITH CHILDREN"!!

    Agreed. Gay couples should be banned from adopting kids.

  3. #3
    GVP's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: MORE GAY MEN NOW 'MARRIED WITH CHILDREN"!!

    I agree with you guys.

  4. #4

    Default Re: MORE GAY MEN NOW 'MARRIED WITH CHILDREN"!!

    The children will be bullied and will probably not have normal lives. I think homosexual couples should only be allowed to adopt kids, and older ones, that understand and can agree.
    Last edited by Enemy of the State; August 10, 2008 at 01:11 PM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: MORE GAY MEN NOW 'MARRIED WITH CHILDREN"!!

    So what you guys are saying better for a kid to be stuck in foster home with no parents then to have parents even gay ones who love them and want to raise them? As long as proper background checks are done what does it matter? I will say straight couples should get preference if all things are equal but that is just the reality of the situation, same way you would want to place kids in families who can provide better.
    Last edited by danzig; August 10, 2008 at 01:19 PM.

  6. #6
    Syron's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: MORE GAY MEN NOW 'MARRIED WITH CHILDREN"!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pivra View Post
    this is madness.. and its not even Sparta... I support gay marriage but this is too much, keep the children out of this....
    Funny, I didn't get a choice not to grow up in a heterosexual family........

    Quote Originally Posted by Estlander View Post
    The children will be bullied and will probably not have normal lives. I think homosexual couples should only be allowed to adopt kids, and older ones, that understand and can agree.
    [sarcasm]I agree.......while we're at it lets stop ethnic minorities from having kids because they might be bullied too.[/sarcasm]

    This is a pathetic argument.
    Last edited by Syron; August 10, 2008 at 05:53 PM.
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  7. #7
    Ragabash's Avatar Mayhem Crop Jet
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    Default Re: MORE GAY MEN NOW 'MARRIED WITH CHILDREN"!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Estlander View Post
    The children will be bullied and will probably not have normal lives. I think homosexual couples should only be allowed to adopt kids, and older ones, that understand and can agree.
    Children get bullied in schools for various reasons. Do you seriously think that all heterosexual parents can offer better life start for chidren than loving and succesfull gay couple? The whole life of childrens does not revolve around few bullies.

    It might be confusing for the first years of childrens life but is that enough reason to deny gay parents to have kids, or children most of all loving parents that many gay couples can offer.

    What makes you think that these children are better off in orphan institutes and the like? What makes heterosexuals better parents? Are gays just worse people when it comes to raising a kid?
    Under Patronage of Søren and member of S.I.N.

  8. #8

    Default Re: MORE GAY MEN NOW 'MARRIED WITH CHILDREN"!!

    Good on 'em.

  9. #9
    Douchebag's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: MORE GAY MEN NOW 'MARRIED WITH CHILDREN"!!

    Quote Originally Posted by killerxguy View Post
    Agreed. Gay couples should be banned from adopting kids.
    x20

  10. #10
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    Default Re: MORE GAY MEN NOW 'MARRIED WITH CHILDREN"!!

    Quote Originally Posted by killerxguy View Post
    Agreed. Gay couples should be banned from adopting kids.
    And why? prejudice I guess is the reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius
    Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.

  11. #11

    Default Re: MORE GAY MEN NOW 'MARRIED WITH CHILDREN"!!

    i think Estlander is right. the kid could probably live well, but still be bullied, harassed, made fun of etc. and would probably not have the full benefits of having parents of both sexes, but even that doesnt always help. however, im betting that some kids with homosexual parents could probably turn out better than kids raised by parents of both sexes (abusive parents, druggies and alcoholics etc.)
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  12. #12

    Default Re: MORE GAY MEN NOW 'MARRIED WITH CHILDREN"!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Theseus1234 View Post
    i think Estlander is right. the kid could probably live well, but still be bullied, harassed, made fun of etc. and would probably not have the full benefits of having parents of both sexes, but even that doesnt always help. however, im betting that some kids with homosexual parents could probably turn out better than kids raised by parents of both sexes (abusive parents, druggies and alcoholics etc.)
    Kids are bullied regardless, if the kid is fat, if the kid has redhead or is different in any manner and considering most kids are and WILL be bullied at some point in their lives it makes it irrelevant.

  13. #13

    Default Re: MORE GAY MEN NOW 'MARRIED WITH CHILDREN"!!

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    Kids are bullied regardless, if the kid is fat, if the kid has redhead or is different in any manner and considering most kids are and WILL be bullied at some point in their lives it makes it irrelevant.

    but imagine those kids on fathers or mothers day

  14. #14

    Default Re: MORE GAY MEN NOW 'MARRIED WITH CHILDREN"!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pivra View Post
    but imagine those kids on fathers or mothers day
    And imagine those kids who dont have either parents what so ever straight or gay. Good parents are good parents, if a "gay" couple can be good parents should a kid (forget the parents this is about the kid) suffer being denied that simply because they might get taunted?

  15. #15

    Default Re: MORE GAY MEN NOW 'MARRIED WITH CHILDREN"!!

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    And imagine those kids who dont have either parents what so ever straight or gay. Good parents are good parents, if a "gay" couple can be good parents should a kid (forget the parents this is about the kid) suffer being denied that simply because they might get taunted?

    then they do not have a chance to grow up hetero.... , they will grow up thinking that gay parents are normal.... when they are actually not.... I support gay rights and transexual rights to the max but this is too much.... i have many friends who are opening gays or bis.. but i think gay guys adopting children is too much.... children should have the right to choose not to have gay parents...

  16. #16
    Georgy Zhukov's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: MORE GAY MEN NOW 'MARRIED WITH CHILDREN"!!

    Children need caring helpful homes, a rough day at school is better then no family to help and care for you and living in a foster home until your 18. Besides that, its nobodies place to dictate what the freedoms of other people are, even if they're different.

  17. #17

    Default Re: MORE GAY MEN NOW 'MARRIED WITH CHILDREN"!!

    God made ADAM and EVE, not ADAM and STEVE


  18. #18

    Default Re: MORE GAY MEN NOW 'MARRIED WITH CHILDREN"!!

    Quote Originally Posted by duda View Post
    God made ADAM and EVE, not ADAM and STEVE
    Once upon a time in a land far, far away....

  19. #19
    Razor's Avatar Licenced to insult
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    Default Re: MORE GAY MEN NOW 'MARRIED WITH CHILDREN"!!

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    Once upon a time in a land far, far away....
    A long long time ago, in a galaxy far away...

  20. #20
    The Good's Avatar the Bad and the Ugly
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    Default Re: MORE GAY MEN NOW 'MARRIED WITH CHILDREN"!!

    Quote Originally Posted by duda View Post
    God made ADAM and EVE, not ADAM and STEVE
    Right you are.

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    Once upon a time in a land far, far away....
    Why, is Mesopotamia too far for you? (Modern day Iraq)

    On a more serious note, I oppose homosexual and lesbian marriage in the first place, but this is even worse.


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