Kypchak - unavoidable bankruptcy

[Min103]

Hi, this is the only mod I play because it just fits what im looking for in games - really nice.

However, I am having issues with the Kypchak Confederation - at start, I am able to easily take control of the steppes - earning very little money indeed. After I take control of the northwestern part of the map, there are about 4 new armies spawned for me to help me fight - however, I can not afford the upkeep. I've played the Kypchaks 3 times, each time making the same mistake - apparently I shouldnt concour the steppes until much after the mongols arrive - or i should disband the 4 new armies..... but i do not see the point in having them spawned for they seem useless in the long run. I've used them to destroy the ERE: first attempt at doing this, i've sacked all their villages then let them revolt (keeping them while bankrupt - revolt is inevitable), sacking wasnt near as much money as i thought it would be, leaving me bankrupt. Second attempt at the Kypchaks i've occupied/exterminated (but kept) ERE's cities/castles, but by that time my army is small and im bankrupt with (negative) 200,000 coins, so by the time i actually get money to spend - it will be too late. I've attempted to attack Kingdom of Georgia, but they now outnumber me and i have no money to recruit - failing miserably.

any tips on how to prevent this from happening?

[Kara Kolyo]

When i get those armies for the Cumans - i send one army to capture Astrakhan - if you are successfull you can get the city but it's large garrison will deplete your army so it won't be a strain on the budget. Two other armies are disbanded and the last is used to capture Derbent or Baku. so at the end i have just one additional army to the forces i had before. Some of the more useless units get disbanded and the financial situation is not that bad. It gives you time to develop and choose wich faction to attack.

[Kavhan Isbul]

The Cumans are crippled by corruption. And on top of this, they get no merchants (this is not so important as AI merchants eventually rule anyway, but merchants sure help in the beginning). These are issues that will probably be fixed in future releases, but the only thing one can do with them is to give up on the steppes and go for Georgia. The Caucasus consists of many settlements, mostly close to each other, which create a powerful economic base, and I think it is part of the Cuman AOR. I should probably try this myself. Once I establish myself in the Caucasus, I am thinking of raiding the ERE and the Abassids to cripple them - sack their cities and tear down all buildings. I should really try such a campaign, but it is the annoying Asian voices of the Cumans that eventually make me give up my campaigns with them - I get fits every time I hear "our men are fighting like old wommen, the enemy is circling around victory like a bee around a blossom". Ridiculous.

[Shadowcry]

YEah honestly wait until the patch to start playing as them, for corruption kills their income. As well the stack spamming by the ERE and other factions later into the game kill the enjoyment makign every battle repetitious and redundant. As well you cannot build your markets and brothels or awesome pagan priests.

[Min103]

lmao. yeah the first time i heard that i just laughed. half the time he says that, im not even losing.

the Kypchaks are really powerful, i've played all other factions and noticed that the ones with the strongest horse-archers seem easy to control. however, the Kypchaks are the only nation i play that have so little income, and yes it is much more difficult with no merchants. But i've restarted for the 4th time - I have the roman empire blocked so they do not go and try to sneak up on my western-most cities, while i attempt to assault georgia. I am waiting for the Turks to go to war with Georgia so they must fight from both sides. I will leave open a rebel settlement in the steppes so i do not get a massive army just yet, until i can afford them. Once georgia is gone, I will use the new armies to attack and destroy ERE, Turks and Armenians - hopefully not going bankrupt, later going after the Kingdom of Jerusalem. The abyysads are always my allies, until i have a big enough army to betray them. I think after the entire west is mine, money wont be a problem. hopefully the mongols get stuck on the east for a while.

[Otsman]

go to medieval shell(hit the button above 'tab' while in-game)

add_money 40000
add_money 20000

mmm, corrupting the masses

[Min103]

yeah im aware of the cheating method.... i just dont feel good about it, i like a challenge you know.. but meh ill just wait it out till the next patch.

[Fenix_120]

Unfortunately the only way to make this problem go away would be to ether


A: make certain Kypchak units have no upkeep.


B: give the Kypchaks an unearthly sum of money.


or C: get rid of the units popping up altogether.



I'm personally for B as if Cumania were to be united under one Khan then he would get tribute from the lesser nobles under him.

[anaztazioch]

I "fixed" it by increasing money income from markets. I find it bad idea to pay 3600 and 4 turns for a baazar that only increases my trade value by 1. My Tarsus gain about 100 gold for every market, having trade routes with Seleukeia, Adana, Karaman, port with sea trade.
Its a bit of waste of cash upgrading such weak markets, they money pays back after 36 turns + 4 turns of structure building.

[Min103]

I "fixed" it by increasing money income from markets. I find it bad idea to pay 3600 and 4 turns for a baazar that only increases my trade value by 1. My Tarsus gain about 100 gold for every market, having trade routes with Seleukeia, Adana, Karaman, port with sea trade.
Its a bit of waste of cash upgrading such weak markets, they money pays back after 36 turns + 4 turns of structure building.

how do i edit the income of markets?

[Min103]

I figured out a way to balance it without having to wait.

just tweak descr_strat, add more starting-out denari, then add more denari_kings_purse - I had 15000 as starting out and have 21700 for kings purse income. It's just a tad above balanced. However, before the armies spawn.... your money gets up to 150,000 denari, once they spawn you must start using them right away to take as many settlements as possible because your money still decreases. My strategy was whiping out the Georgia faction, now i have a steady, and balanced income, and my money right now is under 15,000 denari

[anaztazioch]

in export_descr_buildings.txt
under markets there is base_trade_income or something like that. All markets, buildings etc have 1 for every lvl.

I gave 1,2,4,6,9,15 for markets
0,1,2,3 for city docks
2,4,6,8 for castle docks
1,2,4 for sea trade
2,4,7 for slave trade
4,8 for caravans
4,8 for steppe trade
3 for vineyard
2,4,7 for silk road
2,4,6 for indian/midterrin trade
4,8,16 for merchants guild
3,10 for mines

And i lowered resource worth, fish is least of 1 (while common trade is 0) and most is gold of 22 (30 by default). So the small settlements are very poor, but good trade centers are uber rich compared to town or minor city.
I also adjusted their cost (baazar takes 3 more turns to complete and 1400 more gold to build for instance), and increased city growth differance (12000 for minor city, 25000 for large city, 50000 for huge city).

i lowered base farming level by 1 for all sets above 4. Increased farming so now they give 2,4,6,12, while the cost of irrigation is 12000 and 10 turns (default is 4800 and 8 turns).

This way you cant have super ugraded every city before 1200ad.

[Captain Pugwash]

Raises an eyebrow.

Having played quite a few ajoining fractions they seem to produce an endless supply of troops and given the oppertunity to expand become the biggest faction. This is why I try to destroy them asap. How the Ai does this with apparantly no income......

[anaztazioch]

with apparantly no income......

What no Income ?

Ghorids have 6500 kings purse IMO
Ghazni, ~4500
Khwarezm ~5000
Seljuks ~4000
Abbassid ~1000
Oman ~1500
Makuria 2000
Ayyubids ~2500
KOJ ~2000
Armenia ~1500
Turks ~5000
ERE ~3000
Kypchaks 8500 (!)
Sindh ~1500
Chuan and Solaniki 700

And they get ~250 gold for every settlelent lvl (250 for village, 500 for small town, 2000 for huge city i think) and same for castles.
I see Ghorids and Kypchaks along woth Makuria the wealthiest factions usually having more than 10000 every turn and once Makuria had 74000 in my game (on default BC 1.05 files)