I out number plus out stated them, why did I loose

[the great zolo]

Playing a test game as the denmark, been trying to get the best start I possibley can.

I sack a rebel castle, magdelberg or ? cant remember the the name. That town has 2 light infantry, town militia, and two militia crossbowmen.

I brought
a general,
1 pesant troops that had my ram
3 ladders, 1 mercenary spearment, 1 viking raiders, 1 dismounted huscarls

There defenses were setup weakly in my oppinion, one crossbow was the genral, at the center area, one of they're town militia was at the gates.

the wide wall had one town militia and one corossbow back to back spread across the wall, I sent the ram to the gates and the ladders to the one wall.

the ram got burned down, right before it hit the gate, and the two axe groups got slaughtered before they ever did any damage, they just keep dropping as they got off the ladders. the only one that ever did any damage was my mercenary spears.

they're general (crossbowmen) storm out the gates to meat my peasants and slaughtered them, thought this was probably me fault as I was astonished by the laddermen that I neglected the ram troops, I sent my genral to aid the ram group and slaughtered most the crossbows before the left, but by then i was left with my general and my mercenary spears, the rest wer under 10 troops or defecting.

why in the world could my dismounted huscarls our even my viking raiders be defeated by town militia and crossbowmen?

Also the crossbowmen, never shot a single arrow, they were all melee, 2/3 vs. ?7/6 I should've won right, even with signifacant loses I should've won?

[The Sixth Wizard]

Troops get slaughtered climbing up walls in Battle Map battles. With units of peasants I can usually win against large armies of medium infantry if their ram gets burn'd. IMO only knights and heavy axemen are effective attacking walls, and only if they are able to get up quickly and establish a foothold. If the enemy is killing your men one by one as they come up the ladders, you are basically screwed (remember they have towers either side too which whittle down your men).

If I lose a ram and have only ladders or a single siege tower left I usually withdraw. Build two rams, ALWAYS. I have built three before and had two burn on me.

If you're defending a settlement, here's a tip I have observed. Leave your men on the walls in non-guard mode. This will help your men to get into the enemy before they can start fighting.

[jsktrogdor]

Siege towers and especially ladders give big advantage to troops defending the walls. Its really all about the ram if you dont have artillery. If i had to take a guess, you got really unlucky with the ram burning down. The peasants were worthless, but you already knew this since you put them on the ram to suck up arrows. The ram being destroyed is how you lost imo.

[Monsieur Alphonse]

Units defending walls get a huge bonus. This is why weaker units that should be slaughtered on even ground are very good when defending walls.

[Walternat0r]

I totally agree with Sixth Wizard, on the battle map your ladder troops get a right kicking despite being infinitely better troops than the defenders, so its always safer to throw your forces at the ram.

I've found with the AI that if you send a couple of fodder units before the ram, they got shot at until the ram is under the gates, then move all of your other men up to and under the walls, this means any archers and towers can't hit you for toffee (dunno about naffatun though). If you do this they seem more likely to rush out of the gate - thus being surround on 3 sides and routing quite quickly, letting you inside the settlement with the ram doing bugger all work

[kslessor]

Weak infantry units are almost useless for attacking with ladders.I always use 2 rams so if the first burns down u have a backup.Easiest way to take the city is to send in a spy or use ballista or catapult.You can build a ballista maker in cities cheaply,with ballistas in your army you wont have to wait a turn or two to make seige equipment you can just take the town immediately without even using ladders.

[August]

The ram being destroyed is how you lost imo.

Sums it all up perfectly. Trying to take walls in a head-on ladder/tower rush is, at best, a costly move.
To take a wall from the defending unit you need superior troops and an attack from multiple directions. In reality, I'd recommend to avoid the wall fighting like a plague. Even if you win, it'll be way too costly.
Just take the gates and continue through. The wall defenders will be forced to come down.

[Samir]

I personally like high casualty assaults. But I usually have at least half my army consisting of peasants as cannon fodder

how did one of my high dread generals sum it up?
nothing better at the end of a day than a battlefield full of corpses

[August]

I personally like high casualty assaults. But I usually have at least half my army consisting of peasants as cannon fodder

how did one of my high dread generals sum it up?
nothing better at the end of a day than a battlefield full of corpses

Hehe. I do like your way of thinking very much.
My problem with this strategy in wall taking is that unless you send in crack troop elites up the wall, it will be a pointless move(especially if you play SS, where morale is higher, overall). And seeing my elites being grinded, in a rigged fight, makes me a bit peevish.

[phili131p]

if you are forced to attack the walls then you shouldnt ever place your towers or ladders directly in front of the unit you are attacking. my favorite strategy while attacking walls is to attack well on either side of the unit i want to attack create a rally point where the units assemble on either side then attack. you will still take alot of casualties but you will effectly have even the odds on the wall and if your troops are better then you should win

[bertram boso]

I personally like high casualty assaults. But I usually have at least half my army consisting of peasants as cannon fodder

how did one of my high dread generals sum it up?
nothing better at the end of a day than a battlefield full of corpses

If the peasants can come to grips with the enemy before getting mown down, they actually are beneficial, in that they wear down the enemy's energy and ammunition, at which point you can send in your real fighters to finish them off.

[Xamt]

in my opinion what lost you the battle was poor strategy on your side

you said that you had 3 units with 3 ladders and they were only defending one of their walled sections with 2 units back to back (crossbows and spears)

your ram being burned is tough luck, but you should have done better with your ladders

each ladder should be targeting a different wall section, with 2 of your 3 ladders ending up to face an empty section... your third ladder (the one facing the enemy) should not assault... just keep it there to tie up enemy troops

now once your superior troops were off the ladders and on to the walls you could attack the enemy and easily win

[NobleNick]

...your ram being burned is tough luck, but you should have done better with your ladders

each ladder should be targeting a different wall section, with 2 of your 3 ladders ending up to face an empty section... your third ladder (the one facing the enemy) should not assault... just keep it there to tie up enemy troops

now once your superior troops were off the ladders and on to the walls you could attack the enemy and easily win

Well said.

There are two gates to all castles (or lower), correct? A ram to each gate and 2 ladders, all positioned to spread out the defenders as much as possible, is what I would have done. The AI seems to always leave something UN- or UNDER-defended. Both rams attack, plus the lucky ladder which has undefended wall attacks. If the AI moves troops away from the wall section facing the non-attacking ladder, then attack with it.

Sometimes, if the AI is very low on manpower, I will hold back on the rams and let ladders attack. After the AI moves troops away from the gates to react to the ladder attack, I send in the rams and sometimes pull the ladders back. BwaHaHaHaHA! Great fun.

[stormbringer951]

I always throw mercenaries up the wall. What's the point of mercenaries if not to die in place of your own precious troops. When the mercs have established a nice foothold, it's time for the heavy elite troops to go up. Also, I normally give the enemy a nice shelling with 2-3 trebuchets before moving up the wall. Enemies tend to remember sudden appointments at the city square when faced with a flaming boulder...

For sieges without siege weaponry, I tend to ignore siege towers all together. If the enemy have any coherent sort of archer support, the siege tower will burn before it gets to the walls. Ladders are harder to get rid of, although with a decent defender, you will lose so many troops to the meatgrinder (thus the mercenary tactic...)

[Marechal Ney]

Aagh! Why do people dig up threads that died two years ago?