For King or Country - The English civil war

[Atterdag]

You succeded in making me utter a loud wow, when that pike unit showed up! Damn that's awesome!

[zznɟ ǝɥʇ]

Those screens look stunning. Keep it up!

[Miraj]

Great job in flipping to the next page and bumping off the screens FUZZ.

[CaesarBR]

Awesome!

[Yelü Dashi]

This is definately the chap you were looking for: hope the quality is alright:

[AlphaDelta]

Yelu,

Thank you! Any chance you have Ruthin?

Reposting these as they got knocked off by the Fuzz, how dare you!!



I got an interesting PM from an educated chap and because it contains a lot of good information, and because my response contains a lot of information about what I plan to do with the campaign, I thought I would post it here. I understand it's not the 'norm' and I sincerely hope AWZC won't mind, if he does I'll just remove his side of the message.

Hi, I see your thinking of a mod for this - I'm glad someone finally is - and would gladly answer questions on the history of this period.

One thing I did see was your denouncement of both Ireland and Priests, which were both incredibly important in the Civil Wars. To start with, Ireland to the 17th century english is kind of like what Iraq is to us - it was seen as a land of Catholic 'terrorists' who were, alongside Scotland and Spain, the bigget threat to England. The civil war continued here for much longer, and warring started before this, with Strafford succesfully subduing it in the name of the King before being impeached and beheaded by parliament (which created a major rift between the two English factions). Ireland also was a majorly important place for Cromwell to consolidate his power, both militarily and politically.

Secondly, religion was extremely important - one of the reasons that parliament was so keen to rise up was that the Charles' High Anglican preferences and his Catholic wife made most parliamentarians fear a 'Catholic conspiracy' in which the King was in league with the Pope (note this had no basis in fact and was only a rumour). Most englishmen were moderate Protestants, and they saw Catholics as we may see the Taleban; as dangerous and violent religious nutters. This is where Ireland becomes important, as it is a conflict between the English overlords and the Irish catholics. Scotland were Presbyterian (imagine an EXTREME version of puritanism) and so were just as against Catholicism as the English. Also note that Scotland only allied with the parliamentarians after they agreed to change the state religion to presbyterianism (which Cromwell later backed out of). So my suggestion is to keep priests of different christian denominations; although the differences between them may seem slight to us, in their day it would be like comparing Buddhists and Satanists.

However, at the end of the day, whether you choose to use this information or not, good luck

AWZC

Hi,

I accept that my original discounting of the importance of Ireland and Scotland was essentially ignorant. At that point I hadn't researched the history of the era to a point where I could accurately make such a statement. However I don't change my stance on the inclussion of Ireland or Scotland.

It all comes down to scope. I understand that the wars in Ireland, Scotland and England were all inter-connected and that there was influence between all three. However, when I chose to model the war I chose to model the war in England, betwee the English Royalists and the English Parliamentarians.

When a development studio chooses to model WW2 they rarely model every conflict in every part of the war, instead they focus on one theatre. Even though the Russian front and the western front were entirely interconnected it's still very much possible to represent each accurately and seperately. At some point I will represent the Scottish. However I'm not going to represent them as a faction. It creates far too many headaches trying to get them to behave in a way that mimics history; They will goto war with the Royalists from turn 1, once they fight their way to Leeds they'll goto war with the Parliamentarians. The total war engine just doesn't have sort of diplomacy that can represent the 4 way conflict very well. Instead what I will do is create a set of circumstances in which a Scottish army can appear. For example I can create a building in London that will say 'Change the state religion to Presbyterian'. After a few turns the Scottish will appear in the north as either a player controllable or rebel stack.

As to the point about religion, I agree entirely between the differences between the different sects and the way they felt about each other. However, as I understand it, the war in England was in part about who controlled religion, not so much about a sectarian difference, I won't be including priests. If it's possible, and I believe it is, the aspect of 'religion' will be renamed to 'support', the two 'support' sides will be Royalist and Parliamentarian. This will allow me to cause rebellion and make it difficult to control in areas where either side is not popular.

Cheers

[Son of Mao]

Yelu,

Thank you! Any chance you have Ruthin?

Reposting these as they got knocked off by the Fuzz, how dare you!!

These are fantastic, but it appears as if they would require a new animation?

[CaesarBR]

Even if they require a new animation, I bet Alpha has the skills to do it!

[AlphaDelta]

No new animation required. They are just posed in milkshape for the screenshot.

Cheers

[AWZC]

Heh I don't mind at all... And I agree with your reply, that WWII analogy was good.

[Taneda Santôka]

That's wowsome... In 12 days... Hats off

[AlphaDelta]

A fairly rough job but it's better than nothing!

A cuirassier.

[Carl von Döbeln]

Not as good as the others but still Great!

[AWZC]

Interesting fact I just found btw, 10% of Englands population died in the civil war, the largest percentage in any english war to date...

I was wondering, is it possible to have a seperate model for Rupert (this is a tongue in cheek request btw) so we can include his dog 'Boy' who went into battle with him. The parliamentarians thought that this dog was evil and knew witchcraft, though sadly one battle it wandered off and was never seen again.

A bit random I know... Keep up the great work btw, this looks to be my favourite MTW2 mod to date...

[AlphaDelta]

It seems certain to say that the English civil war was the bloodiest war ever fought on English soil. That alone should warrant it's inclussion in TW history!

I thought I read that boye was caught and killed? I'm not really sure how to add custom generals for named characters, even if i could I'm not sure if I could model a very convincing poodle!

[Miraj]

I think custom models are only possible in Kingdoms. Not really necessary though.

That Curaisser looks like a beefy sob!

[Nakharar]

Very nice and very fast progress

[AlphaDelta]

I've updated the Cuirassier.

[Carl von Döbeln]

´Great

[Father Jack]

Great models mate!

It seems certain to say that the English civil war was the bloodiest war ever fought on English soil. That alone should warrant it's inclussion in TW history!

Around 190,000 English killed (3.2% of population)
Around 60,000 Scots maybe more (6%of population)
Around 618,000 Irish (41% of the population)
Total approx number killed directly or as a result of the Civil War: 868,000 - a staggering number for that age in history

Alot of these were killed off in famine and disease as a result of the war. Many of the Irish deaths were down to violence between Catholics and Protestants and virtual genocide. This definitely deserves to be Total War