Jihad? 7346...3.36. virgins?

[silvercolum]

Hi there!this is just for curiosity.
we all in the western cultures have heard about the jihad and the virgins but..how truth is it? i mean, what is the jihad exactly? what says the quoran about it? what told u ur father to believe or think about it?
this is just a thread to set things clear, so we who not worship the islam can understand these things without having to read all the qouran

sorry if it is not ''qouran'' dont know how it is correctly spelt

[Ex Tenebris Lux]

Quran or Koran seem to be acceptable. Anyway in my limited knowledge I think to lose your life on a Jihad does gaurantee you a spot in heaven, and the Koran does talk about an eternity of bliss with 72 virgins. Don't take ny word though I'm sure you're going to get more expert information in the next few hours lol.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Moved to EMM.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Hi there!this is just for curiosity.
we all in the western cultures have heard about the jihad and the virgins but..how truth is it? i mean, what is the jihad exactly? what says the quoran about it? what told u ur father to believe or think about it?
this is just a thread to set things clear, so we who not worship the islam can understand these things without having to read all the qouran

sorry if it is not ''qouran'' dont know how it is correctly spelt

Jihad is Arabic for "struggle".

The notion of the virgins comes from an extremely difficult to interpret part of the Quran;

"reclining on couches [of happiness] ranged in rows!” And [in that paradise] We shall mate them with companions pure, most beautiful of eye"

The number is not mentioned, and this statement seems to contradict several other parts of the Quran that in heaven a man and his wife or wives are ressurected as virgins, equal in age.

"God has promised the believers, both men and women (Lit., waalmuminoona (male believers) waalmuminatu (female believers), gardens through which running waters flow, therein to abide, and goodly dwellings in gardens of perpetual bliss: but God's goodly acceptance is the greatest [bliss of all] -for this, this is the triumph supreme!"

"As for anyone - be it man or woman [Lit., min (from) thakarin (male) aw (or) ontha (female)][16:97] - who does righteous deeds, and is a believer withal - him shall We most certainly cause to live a good life, and most certainly shall We grant unto such as these their reward in accordance with the best that they ever did."

"And [with them will be their] spouses, raised high: for, behold, We shall have brought them into being in a life renewed, having resurrected them as virgins"

"And among His wonders is this: He creates for you mates out of your own kind [min anfusikum azwajan, Lit. “from among yourselves mates (spouses, one of the pair)”] so that you might incline towards them, and He engenders love and tenderness between you: in this, behold, there are messages indeed for people who think! … And He it is who creates [all life] in the first instance, and then brings it forth anew: and most easy is this for Him, since His is the essence of all that is most sublime in the heavens and on earth, and He alone is almighty, truly wise."

The notion of 72 virgins does not stem from the Quran, but a 14th century Quranic commentary by one Ibn Kathir who stated;

"It was mentioned by Daraj Ibn Abi Hatim, that Abu al-Haytham 'Adullah Ibn Wahb narrated from Abu Sa'id al-Khudhri, who heard the Prophet Muhammad PBUH saying, 'The smallest reward for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are eighty thousand servants and seventy-two houri, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine and ruby, as wide as the distance from al-Jabiyyah to San'a."

So essentially the 72 virgins is to the Quran as the Catholic Church declaring the Earth was flat or polyphony was a sin is to the Bible. Furthermore it is also suggested that the Quran may in fact be using some Syriac language. If that is true the relevent passages are much easier to translate and instead of virgins they describe a garden of paradise involving white raisens.

[Pivra]

72 virgins sound to me like lots of pain and bleeding.... eeew

[finsternis]

I heard that is it was a misinterpretation and that it is not 72 virgins but 72 white grapes. Supposedly the word white grape and virgin kind of look and sound alike in on Arabic (poor horny suicide bomber).

[removeduser_487563287433]

I heard that is it was a misinterpretation and that it is not 72 virgins but 72 white grapes. Supposedly the word white grape and virgin kind of look and sound alike in on Arabic (poor horny suicide bomber).

This is the theory proposed in the Syriac Reading of the Quran. It is a controversial work and by no means universally accepted.

[motiv-8]

This is the theory proposed in the Syriac Reading of the Quran. It is a controversial work and by no means universally accepted.

It's also almost impossible considering the Quran was written in Classical Arabic poetic verse... Syriac thrown in would almost instantly and undeniably stand out.

[removeduser_487563287433]

It's also almost impossible considering the Quran was written in Classical Arabic poetic verse... Syriac thrown in would almost instantly and undeniably stand out.

What? No it wouldn't.

[Gungalley]

What are white grapes? Whats so special about them?

[finsternis]

What are white grapes? Whats so special about them?

Nothing. And it was white raisins not grapes (they are the same thing, so I got confused). and I am not sure what they are. But that is what I read in a article a while ago.

[AngryTitusPullo]

What are white grapes? Whats so special about them?

Probably as a parable or metaphorical. In Islam, 'sin' are only concept in 'this' world and those that were considered sin here are not in the afterlife.

As muslims believe that this life is a test, so that those things they can't do here on earth are doable in the afterlife, provided that they're true and act accordingly as what Islam is suppose to be.

[Major.Stupidity]

This from As`ad AbuKhalil might be helpful.

[Serious Spamurai]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=148439

Wrote that a while ago. As for Virgins, Ferrets is spot on, it's also worth noting that even if it were true, they'd get it when they died anyway, Jihad or not.

[dwringer]

Er white grapes are green grapes (as opposed to purple "red" grapes)...

what I don't get is the numbers in the subject... 7346...3.36? What does that even mean? LOL

And.... I'm pretty sure the "Jihad" of today against the West doesn't count as a real Jihad in the eyes of muslim scholars (other than the loony ones that live in mountain caves plotting their revenge on the world)

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

dwringer, this modern "Jihad" has nothing to do with religion.

The fact is that all of Palestine (East Jerusalem, the West Bank, etc) is under foreign occupation, Afghanistan and Iraq are under foreign occupation, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt (among other countries) are under American neo-colonial control while Iran and Syria are under sanctions. All of this is political, not religious so any reaction is also politically-motivated.

So why does religion get involved here? Arab secular nationalism was born in the 40s and died in the 70s. Therefore, the only rallying cry for an angry people is religion.

If by "Jihad of today," you mean terrorist attacks on civilians, then no, that's not Jihad because it contradicts the Quran and the Sunnah (example of the Prophet sw). However, military resistance to occupying armies and speaking out against them is Jihad. Getting rid of tyrants such as the Saudi monarch, Al-Assad, Musharraf, Hosni Mubarak, etc is also Jihad but killing innocents just to instigate an uprising is definitely not Jihad.

I wish it were as simple as "loony ones that live in mountain caves plotting their revenge on the world". I believe in cause and effect. The cause is American interests and subsequent interferences in the national affairs of resource-rich and geo-politically important countries (removal of Mosaddeq in Iran, appointment of Zardari in Pakistan, helping the Saudi tyrants, helping the Shah of Iran, aiding Saddam, etc). The effect are politically-driven groups who take inspiration from Islam.

Therefore, the common belief that Muslims started this fight (Jihad, Holy War) because their religion is evil and because Muslims hate American "freedom, liberties and magnificence" is utterly wrong and is only a propaganda message portrayed quite successfully by the American news-entertainment media. Simply put, US covert and overt operations in the greater Middle-East for the past half a century led to violent resistance from the affected peoples and the situation is at a boiling-point now. To deceive the entire American nation that they were attacked for no reason at all because a holy book "preached hatred" was a great crime indeed. People are paying with their lives as we speak for that lie.

"The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world he didn't exist".

[dwringer]

No, I agree that it has nothing to do with religion. All I said was that the only muslim scholars who believe it to be a true religious jihad are loony, and they hide in mountain caves plotting their revenge on the world.

I mean, prove to me that they don't exist

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zwahiri are not scholars.

Also, it's important which "Jihad" you're referring to. The Afghan resistance to NATO, the Palestinian resistance, the Chechen Mujahideen or the Kashmiri Mujahideen?

[Serious Spamurai]

Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zwahiri are not scholars.

Too true, an Egyptian doctor with a screw loose and the man who thinks honey is a cure for hydrocephalus.

[dwringer]

Sorry, I was referring to all of those jihads, and I was not referring to the people you named. Why do you think I was making a specific political commentary? I was simply making fun of crazy old muslims hiding up in the mountains plotting their revenge against the world. You don't call them scholars, hell, I wouldn't really either, but I'm sure many of them think that they are. I'm speaking in broad generalizations here, and for all I know there aren't that many of these guys, but I am convinced that they are up there. Why do you have to attack what was an innocent comment?

Like I said, real muslim scholars wouldn't call any of those things actual jihads. I think every race, culture, religion, and location has crazy old men that live in the mountains plotting their revenge against the world. I live in West Virginia, and we have them, but they're usually some obscure variant of protestant.

EDIT: wait a second.. you're a crazy old muslim hiding in a cave somewhere plotting your revenge on the world, aren't you? That's it, isn't it?