Tweaking Government Points

[Xtiaan72]

I love the new point system but I think it needs some tweaking which is understandable since the feature is brand new. The Military points are working a lot better at the moment..

Government points are too hard too get and too easy to loose..

My suggestion is to add a condition that gives you 1 government point for every building project completed. ( Isn't completing public works projects good government?) In mho that would be all it needs to make it work right.

[Plan C]

It's not a bad idea. As it is bulding a fairground is pretty damn difficult and should a war break out and money be urgently needed to train and sustain armies + mercs you might find yourself in the red and leaking points for the next dozen turns. It's a nailbiter, especially that a) economy is crucial in the game and b) random negative events (mines, herbour etc.) become frustrating to the point of blind rage in my case. Previously, "disaster at your mines" was a challenge, now it feels just disappointing and downright evil.

I reckon the above tweak is a good idea, although gov points could be given just for certain buildings (if possible, that is) like wells, roads and town hall tree buildings. All I personally need is just a little break cos now it feels like I get sand in my eyes all the time; on VH/VH it's just insane

[Xtiaan72]

You've got to look at it like gov points are an abstraction of "what your goverment is doing for you" kinda stuff.

If you build a well, which is usually low on the priority list, you should get a Gov point cause it improves happiness and health... Now people will have a reason to build these kinds of buildings. Adds a whole new level of depth to your building decisions.

Basically I think you should get a gov point for building a building that has a health, happiness or religion bonus.

But not for buildings that provide trade bonus....

So it looks like this Public Buildings ----------> +1 Gov point per builiding that provides health, happiness or religion bonus -----------> This lead to more gov points to get trade bonus buildings --------> This leads to more cash..

Farming and mine buildings are out of the equation....With hoops to jump through for markets, ports and merchants....Farming and mining are just about the only way to make money these days!

This makes a lot more sense than just running your diplomat around enemy territories ( at 600 bucks a turn) to get trade rights all the way to timbuktu.....Only to lose them when you build something and then go into the red because of a bad event or financial penalty.

And it's not like this is going to make holding on to your gov points too easy....It's still going to be hard just not nigh impossible

[Adam the VIth]

Could not agree more with the posters above. I simply cannot get a surplus of GPoints.

Now, I'm hopelessly in the red, even after disbanding most of my army.

Being at "zero cash" should not cost you a point. The way the accounting system works, you often dip below zero on the "turn change" moment, but ended the previous turn above zero and start the new turn above zero....yet it cost you a point.

I love the idea of the system, with the proper tweaking, it should be excellent. So, it is just text editing......can someone give us the line to insert for these buildings and we'll be off and running!

[Xtiaan72]

I'm with you man, if someone tells me where to start, I will work on it with you. I want to learn more about how 'buttons' work anyway for something else I'm working on

[Capital]

Im having trouble getting government points, Often my spy will be killed after a few successful missions. I mostly have a negative income, and rely on gifts from nobles, the pope, etc.

[Vangar]

The system is definitely in need of tweaking. I get the idea, but it doesn't actually work. For example, playing as Egypt, I'm not able to upgrade any of my towns because the only large towns I start with are Cairo and Alexandria, both already have a marketplace. All other settlements in Arabia/Africa are just towns in which I can't build any trade buildings. I have trade rights granted to almost the entire world, but negative events keep occuring. I'm fine with money at the moment, but tell me - how I am supposed to upgrade anything? I built every possible building (except the ungeon since it's buggy) and now... I'm stuck, kind off.

The military points are easier to get, but it's still insane. Look, Egypt has a single castle, Gaza. With Gaza, Cairo and Alexandria, you have three settlements in total which can produce basic troops (militia and desert cavalry and peasants/peasant archers). You don't have any generals, you can't train generals since it needs a drill square. But it takes lots of points to achieve the possibility to obtain a drill square, thus you spent a very very long time without generals (in my case, I got not a single general adoption offer, nor "man of the hour" events). Leading your governors into battle equals instant lose, as we all know. But all rebel armies in your area as well as jerusalems armies feature high-rank generals and, partly, even elite troops (some rebel armies featured ghulams). I tell you, achieving military points in Egypt isn't fun at all.

[Alatar98]

cant you just do lots of spy missioins?
you get 1 point for each success

[Plan C]

cant you just do lots of spy missioins?
you get 1 point for each success

I suppose you can but is this really the point of this mod?

[JackMaga]

I agree, giving GP for health, government or religion building would be a far better way to represent the concept of good governement.

It would also make much more roleplaying sense!

[Vangar]

I suppose you can but is this really the point of this mod?

You see, that's an interesting point. Actually I think you are forced to use exploits in order to be really succesful in DLV, a often discussed topic is the cavalry spread. People complain the cavalry isn't much good, others say that you just have to use hit and run tactics to rule the battlefield with your cav and they are right - BUT these hit and run tactics are, to me, an exploit of the game engine and I'd rather not play this way because I don't think this is what the mod and the game is about.

It's the same with those government points, there might be a good idea behind this, but it doesn't really work the way it's intented to. I'd really like to see the points system changed to what Xtiaan72 suggested because you pinted it out already - do I really have to use such tricks as to send spies on unnecessary missions every turn? You can basically always spy on the same rebel army, it's a glitch exploit and not a "skill" you should obtain to master DLV.

@Xtiaan72: hehe, test my generalskills. If it would be a matter of skill sure, but I think personally it is simply impossible to win a battle wothout general only featuring basic troops against high ranking generals with some elite cavalry. Basically the two ghulams (located in an rebel army in Nubia) literally WALKED my army down. They just mowed through my militia and swordmen, deflecting arrows, from left to right.

I think you can't win these odds WITHOUT using exploits. Being a good general shouldn't be about fast-clicking :/

Actually I'm doing quite well as egypt, money really isn't a problem at all, I got quite good in reaching a stable economy in DLV so I easily got over 40k by using my 2 merchants, less troops etc. with just towns and two large towns (my new family members really become formidable governors due to their father's traits and buildings and so on). I simply can't advance because I neither get Gov nor Mil points that easy and negative events keep striking me. I guess I have to try those diplomatic and spy exploits to advance a bit...

[repman]

With Furins tips: use spy missions,...etc. gov Points are to easy to get

giving GP for health, government or religion building

..will think about it

repman

[Xtiaan72]

Well, I'm going to play some more and think about it more too... I do have to say that Repman and the team rule...

and this mod is beyond amazing at this point.

[Vangar]

With Furins tips: use spy missions,...etc. gov Points are to easy to get

Yeah sure, but is it really what you've been trying to do? Implement a new government pointsystem just for the sole purpose of being forced to do pointless spy missions each turn?

[jemus]

monitor_event PostBattle FactionIsLocal
and WonBattle
and BattleSuccess = crushing
inc_counter mil_points 3
inc_counter gov_points 3
end_monitor


I think we should honor heroic victories. In my opinion, the best way to improve a faction's reputation should be a great battle success.

another idea:

monitor_event GeneralCaptureFort FactionIsLocal
inc_counter mil_points 1
end_monitor

[Xtiaan72]

Are those the only files that need to be changed to come up with a temp solution?

Which txt file are they in?

[Capital]

I think if there were less minus's for the Gov Points would be a more appropriate fix. Not that i'm really looking for one, but I am still having trouble getting on my feet as Norway.

[jemus]

@ Xtiaan72

I just modified the campaign script in my own game by adding those lines.

So, open the campaign_script.txt, find the section "governor/military ranking points" and add those line. I modified the gov_points, which you get by having a certain amount of money aswell.

"monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionIsLocal
and Treasury < 0
inc_counter gov_points -1
end_monitor
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionIsLocal
and Treasury < -10000
inc_counter gov_points -3
end_monitor
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionIsLocal
and Treasury > 10000
inc_counter gov_points 1
end_monitor
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionIsLocal
and Treasury > 20000
inc_counter gov_points 2
end_monitor
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionIsLocal
and Treasury > 30000
inc_counter gov_points 3
end_monitor
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionIsLocal
and Treasury > 60000
inc_counter gov_points 5"

This works fine in my game, since it is a lot easier to achieve 10000 florins in order to get a gov_point

Well, I am still trying to find out how to get some points after building a well for example

[jemus]

Well, I am not 100% sure if this works, maybe someone could test it:

monitor_event GovernorBuildingCompleted FactionIsLocal
and SettlementBuildingFinished >= church
inc_counter gov_points 2
end_monitor
monitor_event GovernorBuildingCompleted FactionIsLocal
and SettlementBuildingExists >= sewers
inc_counter gov_points 1
end_monitor

Now, you should get 2 gov_points when you have built a church (or higher) and 1 gov_point for the sewers every turn. As I said, I haven't tested it yet and I don't know if it is balanced or not. It's just an idea to honor health or religious buildings. Well, just some thoughts, nothing more

[Xtiaan72]

I played 5.7 quite a bit last night... It's really not that difficult to accumulate GOV points ( Although the difficulty does vary by faction)

It is true ( Like Furin and Repman said) that if you park a spy permanently next to a priest you can get a point a turn...and that's plenty enough to accumulate them.

If you had two spys...two points a turn, no problem. It's just not a very sexy way to get gov points.

I think some combination would be best;

Some variation on the idea we have been discussing about getting a point for civic buildings combined with spies only getting gov points for difficult missions ( settlements and family members)

Spies should not get points for merchant/priest missions if the player gets a gov point for civic building... cause then the points will be way to easy to get.