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  1. #1
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    Default China's Rise Exaggerated: A Rational Analysis of China's Prospects as a Future Superpower

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    By John Pomfret
    Sunday, July 27, 2008; B01

    Nikita Khrushchev said the Soviet Union would bury us, but these days, everybody seems to think that China is the one wielding the shovel. The People's Republic is on the march -- economically, militarily, even ideologically. Economists expect its GDP to surpass America's by 2025; its submarine fleet is reportedly growing five times faster than Washington's; even its capitalist authoritarianism is called a real alternative to the West's liberal democracy. China, the drumbeat goes, is poised to become the 800-pound gorilla of the international system, ready to dominate the 21st century the way the United States dominated the 20th.

    Except that it's not.

    Ever since I returned to the United States in 2004 from my last posting to China, as this newspaper's Beijing bureau chief, I've been struck by the breathless way we talk about that country. So often, our perceptions of the place have more to do with how we look at ourselves than with what's actually happening over there. Worried about the U.S. education system? China's becomes a model. Fretting about our military readiness? China's missiles pose a threat. Concerned about slipping U.S. global influence? China seems ready to take our place.

    But is China really going to be another superpower? I doubt it.

    It's not that I'm a China-basher, like those who predict its collapse because they despise its system and assume that it will go the way of the Soviet Union. I first went to China in 1980 as a student, and I've followed its remarkable transformation over the past 28 years. I met my wife there and call it a second home. I'm hardly expecting China to implode. But its dream of dominating the century isn't going to become a reality anytime soon.

    Too many constraints are built into the country's social, economic and political systems. For four big reasons -- dire demographics, an overrated economy, an environment under siege and an ideology that doesn't travel well -- China is more likely to remain the muscle-bound adolescent of the international system than to become the master of the world.

    In the West, China is known as "the factory to the world," the land of unlimited labor where millions are eager to leave the hardscrabble countryside for a chance to tighten screws in microwaves or assemble Apple's latest gizmo. If the country is going to rise to superpowerdom, says conventional wisdom, it will do so on the back of its massive workforce.

    But there's a hitch: China's demographics stink. No country is aging faster than the People's Republic, which is on track to become the first nation in the world to get old before it gets rich. Because of the Communist Party's notorious one-child-per-family policy, the average number of children born to a Chinese woman has dropped from 5.8 in the 1970s to 1.8 today -- below the rate of 2.1 that would keep the population stable. Meanwhile, life expectancy has shot up, from just 35 in 1949 to more than 73 today. Economists worry that as the working-age population shrinks, labor costs will rise, significantly eroding one of China's key competitive advantages.

    Worse, Chinese demographers such as Li Jianmin of Nankai University now predict a crisis in dealing with China's elderly, a group that will balloon from 100 million people older than 60 today to 334 million by 2050, including a staggering 100 million age 80 or older. How will China care for them? With pensions? Fewer than 30 percent of China's urban dwellers have them, and none of the country's 700 million farmers do. And China's state-funded pension system makes Social Security look like Fort Knox. Nicholas Eberstadt, a demographer and economist at the American Enterprise Institute, calls China's demographic time bomb "a slow-motion humanitarian tragedy in the making" that will "probably require a rewrite of the narrative of the rising China."

    I count myself lucky to have witnessed China's economic rise first-hand and seen its successes etched on the bodies of my Chinese classmates. When I first met them in the early 1980s, my fellow students were hard and thin as rails; when I found them again almost 20 years later, they proudly sported what the Chinese call the "boss belly." They now golfed and lolled around in swanky saunas.

    But in our exuberance over these incredible economic changes, we seem to have forgotten that past performance doesn't guarantee future results. Not a month goes by without some Washington think tank crowing that China's economy is overtaking America's. The Carnegie Endowment for International Peace is the latest, predicting earlier this month that the Chinese economy would be twice the size of ours by the middle of the century.

    There are two problems with predictions like these. First, in the universe where these reports are generated, China's graphs always go up, never down. Second, while the documents may include some nuance, it vanishes when the studies are reported to the rest of us.

    One important nuance we keep forgetting is the sheer size of China's population: about 1.3 billion, more than four times that of the United States. China should have a big economy. But on a per capita basis, the country isn't a dragon; it's a medium-size lizard, sitting in 109th place on the International Monetary Fund's World Economic Outlook Database, squarely between Swaziland and Morocco. China's economy is large, but its average living standard is low, and it will stay that way for a very long time, even assuming that the economy continues to grow at impressive rates.

    The big number wheeled out to prove that China is eating our economic lunch is the U.S. trade deficit with China, which last year hit $256 billion. But again, where's the missing nuance? Nearly 60 percent of China's total exports are churned out by companies not owned by Chinese (including plenty of U.S. ones). When it comes to high-tech exports such as computers and electronic goods, 89 percent of China's exports come from non-Chinese-owned companies. China is part of the global system, but it's still the low-cost assembly and manufacturing part -- and foreign, not Chinese, firms are reaping the lion's share of the profits.

    When my family and I left China in 2004, we moved to Los Angeles, the smog capital of the United States. No sooner had we set foot in southern California than my son's asthma attacks and chronic chest infections -- so worryingly frequent in Beijing -- stopped. When people asked me why we'd moved to L.A., I started joking, "For the air."

    China's environmental woes are no joke. This year, China will surpass the United States as the world's No. 1 emitter of greenhouse gases. It continues to be the largest depleter of the ozone layer. And it's the largest polluter of the Pacific Ocean. But in the accepted China narrative, the country's environmental problems will merely mean a few breathing complications for the odd sprinter at the Beijing games. In fact, they could block the country's rise.

    The problem is huge: Sixteen of the world's 20 most polluted cities are in China, 70 percent of the country's lakes and rivers are polluted, and half the population lacks clean drinking water. The constant smoggy haze over northern China diminishes crop yields. By 2030, the nation will face a water shortage equal to the amount it consumes today; factories in the northwest have already been forced out of business because there just isn't any water. Even Chinese government economists estimate that environmental troubles shave 10 percent off the country's gross domestic product each year. Somehow, though, the effect this calamity is having on China's rise doesn't quite register in the West .

    And then there's "Kung Fu Panda." That Hollywood movie embodies the final reason why China won't be a superpower: Beijing's animating ideas just aren't that animating.

    In recent years, we've been bombarded with articles and books about China's rising global ideological influence. (One typical title: "Charm Offensive: How China's Soft Power Is Transforming the World.") These works portray China's model -- a one-party state with a juggernaut economy -- as highly attractive to elites in many developing nations, although China's dreary current crop of acolytes (Zimbabwe, Burma and Sudan) don't amount to much of a threat.

    But consider the case of the high-kicking panda who uses ancient Chinese teachings to turn himself into a kung fu warrior. That recent Hollywood smash broke Chinese box-office records -- and caused no end of hand-wringing among the country's glitterati. "The film's protagonist is China's national treasure, and all the elements are Chinese, but why didn't we make such a film?" Wu Jiang, president of the China National Peking Opera Company, told the official New China News Agency.

    The content may be Chinese, but the irreverence and creativity of "Kung Fu Panda" are 100 percent American. That highlights another weakness in the argument about China's inevitable rise: The place remains an authoritarian state run by a party that limits the free flow of information, stifles ingenuity and doesn't understand how to self-correct. Blockbusters don't grow out of the barrel of a gun. Neither do superpowers in the age of globalization.

    And yet we seem to revel in overestimating China. One recent evening, I was at a party where a senior aide to a Democratic senator was discussing the business deal earlier this year in which a Chinese state-owned investment company had bought a big chunk of the Blackstone Group, a U.S. investment firm. The Chinese company has lost more than $1 billion, but the aide wouldn't believe that it was just a bum investment. "It's got to be part of a broader plan," she insisted. "It's China."

    I tried to convince her otherwise. I don't think I succeeded.

    John Pomfret is the editor of Outlook. He is a former Beijing bureau chief of The Washington Post and the author of "Chinese Lessons: Five Classmates and the Story of the New China."
    Pomfret states exactly what I have long believed.

    That, as Americans, we have long projected our uncertainties and imperfections to our rivals, real or imagined. While it is good to a degree to overestimate your potential rivals in order to inspire competitive motivation, the amount of fretting that people are making over China is really unwarranted.

    We as Americans (and, in a broader sense, the West as a whole) have often sought inspiration for action in the international arena. But some of the more radical alarmists out there make it sound as if it is already foreordained. Which is patently ridiculous.

    Sometimes, the near hysteria coming from many American politicians and influential think tanks and organizations really frustrates me. I hope this piece brings some perspective to an issue now given over to hyperbole.

    To compete successfully with America you have to be like America. A simple notion and historical lesson that not enough people seem to understand. I mean seriously, flip it around and ask - could America compete with China, or the old Soviet Union, in the arena of closed, ruthless, authoritarian Empire? No, of course not - we're not built for that kind of thing.

    And so to compete successfully with America you have to be a slightly screwball, risk-embracing, and open society.

    China's made remarkable progress for a country which in the 1960s was still trying to transition into the 20th Century, but that doesn't mean that the 21st Century is going to see it ascending to a level of power and influence to rival or replace that of the US.

  2. #2

    Default Re: China's Rise Exaggerated: A Rational Analysis of China's Prospects as a Future Superpower

    exactly, good article.
    Have a question about China? Get your answer here.

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    Default Re: China's Rise Exaggerated: A Rational Analysis of China's Prospects as a Future Superpower

    Good article.

    Although I would point out that it frames the question is biased and flawed terms; a dominant China, or a dominant US.

    We are headed for a multipolar era, hell we are already in it. No one power will be dominant.

  4. #4

    Default Re: China's Rise Exaggerated: A Rational Analysis of China's Prospects as a Future Superpower

    Quote Originally Posted by wilting View Post
    Good article.

    Although I would point out that it frames the question is biased and flawed terms; a dominant China, or a dominant US.

    We are headed for a multipolar era, hell we are already in it. No one power will be dominant.
    Good article in op and good point here above. We tend to think in absolutes too much that world is suddenly going to flip flop, if anything it is gradual and it is to a level of parity not replacement.

  5. #5

    Default Re: China's Rise Exaggerated: A Rational Analysis of China's Prospects as a Future Superpower

    The pollution part is also pretty consistent with my impression based on my limited direct experience with the southern part of China. The area around HK and Shenzhen which I'm told is comparatively cleaner than many other parts of the country makes me wonder how do people survive in what counts as really polluted areas.

    The other way to look at the situation there is to consider all those smart, industrious and hard-working Chinese who might want to move to cleaner parts of the world where they can have as many children as they like to, who do not abuse the welfare systems, don't riot and don't blow themselves up because of some cartoons published in the newspapers Some situations in the world do look like a zero-sum game where somebody's loss is somebody else's gain.
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    Default Re: China's Rise Exaggerated: A Rational Analysis of China's Prospects as a Future Superpower

    Excellent article. I actually agree with a lot of this guy's points.

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    Default Re: China's Rise Exaggerated: A Rational Analysis of China's Prospects as a Future Superpower

    Quote Originally Posted by wilting
    Although I would point out that it frames the question is biased and flawed terms; a dominant China, or a dominant US.

    We are headed for a multipolar era, hell we are already in it. No one power will be dominant.
    I disagree.

    In order for a multipolar geo-political arena to exist it would have to mean that one of more Superpowers would have to ascend to such status. Or for the United States to dramatically fall from its Superpower status.

    It can't exist if one power is stronger than the others and is able to exert far more influence on a global scale then any of its rivals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dromikaites
    The pollution part is also pretty consistent with my impression based on my limited direct experience with the southern part of China. The area around HK and Shenzhen which I'm told is comparatively cleaner than many other parts of the country makes me wonder how do people survive in what counts as really polluted areas.
    Yeah, its pretty telling when China has something like 14 of the 20 most polluted cities in the world.

  8. #8

    Default Re: China's Rise Exaggerated: A Rational Analysis of China's Prospects as a Future Superpower

    Good article + rep

  9. #9

    Default Re: China's Rise Exaggerated: A Rational Analysis of China's Prospects as a Future Superpower

    This is not a good article, it's garbage. I will reply to it in detail later at both the forums we post at Caelius.





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    Default Re: China's Rise Exaggerated: A Rational Analysis of China's Prospects as a Future Superpower

    the article has serious flaws, the main one being that superpowers have always being about wealth, resources and projection of power, and never about such irrelevant things such as public govt pensions, pollution, freedoms and other nonsense.

    as long as Chinese economy will remain to be extremely solid, Chinese have nothing to fear. also, I believe that with time, as their middle class will grow strong, they will gradually abolish communist ideals and free up a little bit more.

    and the world is definitely heading towards multi-polarism. US power and influence has nowhere to go but down. all the empires rise and fall (no matter how rich or powerful), and it is exactly what will happen to the United States. and the minute US defaults on its 10+ trillion debt, this is exactly what is going to happen.
    Last edited by Panzerbear; July 31, 2008 at 11:13 AM.

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    Default Re: China's Rise Exaggerated: A Rational Analysis of China's Prospects as a Future Superpower

    Quote Originally Posted by .Czar View Post
    the article has serious flaws, the main one being that superpowers have always being about wealth, resources and projection of power, and never about such irrelevant things such as public govt pensions, pollution, freedoms and other nonsense.

    as long as Chinese economy will remain to be extremely solid, Chinese have nothing to fear. also, I believe that with time, as their middle class will grow strong, they will gradually abolish communist ideals and free up a little bit more.
    The things you have mentioned as irrelevant are precisely the ones which makes the foundation of a country's solid economy and society.

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    Default Re: China's Rise Exaggerated: A Rational Analysis of China's Prospects as a Future Superpower

    Quote Originally Posted by The Friend View Post
    The things you have mentioned as irrelevant are precisely the ones which makes the foundation of a country's solid economy and society.
    while may be true, they are still largely irrelvant. nobody gave a about certain social goods, pollution and freedoms during every single empire ever created in the history of mankind. even United States of America, an empire created on genocide of indians and slavery.

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    Default Re: China's Rise Exaggerated: A Rational Analysis of China's Prospects as a Future Superpower

    and the minute US defaults on its 10+ trillion debt, this is exactly what is going to happen
    Who knows ? They might decide going to war against the nation they owe money, expelling the jews, printing money like Weimar or doing all these things at the same time. That doesn't nessecarily lead to the USA's downfall as a greatpower although it might hurt it's image even more...

    while may be true, they are still largely irrelvant. nobody gave a about certain social goods, pollution and freedoms during every single empire ever created in the history of mankind.
    You make a mistake here by ignoring the effects such concepts as "freedom" might have to a nations internal stability if applied the right way. Creating and maintaining an Empire is way more complex than MTW and lowering taxes won't suffice if your population is not satisfied or if you are destroying the environment. Rome for example had to do way more than getting a stable economy to get a hold on Italy and Absolutist France was racked with revolution due to the lack of liberté egalité and fraternité. The same may happen to China but we can't be entirely sure and personally I would say that the current system will remain stabgle and slowly evolve as long as there is no major crisis.

    even United States of America, an empire created on genocide of indians and slavery.
    While the treatment of the native americans by the USA was horrible I don't think it should be called "genocide" as I have seen hardly any evidence of a centraly planned and organized campaign to kill all native americans at least not more than it happened during the Russian conquest of Siberia which I wouldn't call genocide either.

    Regarding Slavery it was hardly a factor in the rise of the USA instead it became the trigger for the greatest crisis in the history of the United States.

    Though it would be correct to say that military agression, surpression of indeginous populations and exploitation of foreign countrys were all important factors during the rise of the USA there were also important differences to other nations wich contributed the success of the United States. Amongs them are the concepts of freedom and (social) equality wich attracted a lot of immigrants who in turn helped to strengthen the American economy, settled the west and served in it's armys during times of war. As pointed out above it's far more complex though and probably I would miss out a lot of things even if I tried to mention all.
    Last edited by SorelusImperion; August 01, 2008 at 11:53 AM.
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    Default Re: China's Rise Exaggerated: A Rational Analysis of China's Prospects as a Future Superpower

    Quote Originally Posted by .Czar View Post
    the article has serious flaws, the main one being that superpowers have always being about wealth, resources and projection of power, and never about such irrelevant things such as public govt pensions, pollution, freedoms and other nonsense.
    Humm, let's see:
    1. Wealth - with an aging population which would result in having 100 million people over 80, which translates in almost half of China's population over 60 by 2050 who is going to generate that wealth needed to maintain the status of superpower?

    2. Resources - China doesn't have any (well it does have some coal and some iron but that's about it). On the other hand Russia has plenty just across the border. You catch my drift?

    3. Projection of power - I'd say sustainable projection of power is more important. And with an aging population and a severe lack of resources whatever power China manages to project at one point in time isn't going to last. OK, they might project enough to take Siberia and solve the dependence on resources but I assume the Russian decision makers are aware of that and would sabotage China before it can pose a significant threat. Which means China might never reach a level of significant ability to project power, even if for a short time.

    And now let's look at the "irrelevant" factors:
    4. Government pensions: how do you think the Chinese family would otherwise be able to support the elders (a fundamental factor in the Chinese culture)? Private pensions maybe? With a wealth per capita at the level of an African country it's not likely the private pensions would be able to compensate the shortcomings of the government pensions. Or do you believe that in 40 years the Chinese culture would change so dramatically they'd abandon their elder relatives to their fate? Not to mention what impact would that have on the morale of the people in their 30s and 40s who would realize in about 20 years the game would be over for themselves too.

    5. Pollution Sick people don't make productive workers nor quality soldiers. And think about the impact of the sick children: not only they damage China's prospects of sustaining whatever superpower level it might reach in the future but they impact the life of the adults now. In the Middle Ages people would have assumed the gods are responsible for the state of their health and for the state of the health of their children. Nowadays Chinese are much better educated. Guess how long it would take before the government has a very urgent matter to solve or else? Throwing tanks at it the Tienanmen way won't cut it this time. For the simple reason the tank crews would either be sick themselves or would have sick little brothers or sisters at home.

    6. freedoms or other nonsense How long did the 20th century superpowers who ignored freedoms and other nonsense last? One lasted 10 years, the other one lasted 70. And they didn't have the above listed problems to compound the inherent problems of any dictatorship.


    Quote Originally Posted by .Czar View Post
    as long as Chinese economy will remain to be extremely solid, Chinese have nothing to fear.
    2050 is not that far away.
    Quote Originally Posted by .Czar View Post
    also, I believe that with time, as their middle class will grow strong, they will gradually abolish communist ideals and free up a little bit more.
    The middle class has a long way to go before it makes a significant part of the Chinese population. 2050 might come before that happens
    Quote Originally Posted by .Czar View Post
    and the world is definitely heading towards multi-polarism. US power and influence has nowhere to go but down.
    Which doesn't mean China's influence has to reach superpower status before going down.
    Quote Originally Posted by .Czar View Post
    .
    all the empires rise and fall (no matter how rich or powerful), and it is exactly what will happen to the United States.
    Maybe. Maybe the US would change into something else (like in NAFTA transforms itself in a super-state or a Pan-American Union is formed or NAFTA and the EU merge into a North Atlantic Union).
    Quote Originally Posted by .Czar View Post
    and the minute US defaults on its 10+ trillion debt, this is exactly what is going to happen.
    Precisely because USA might default at some point in time on its debt many major EU countries (UK, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium, Poland + the proxies Luxembourg, Switzerland and the Caribbean Islands) and major South American countries (Mexico, Brazil) might prop-up the US, making quite likely the scenarios of a North Atlantic Union or a Pan-American Union (or both given the current trend of special relations between Mercosur and the EU) .

    China on the other hand doesn't have such alternatives: the members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization are more culturally and religiously diverse than the alternative structures the US might join. And the two major players have actually competing interests. Besides, why would Russia and the Central Asian republics prop up a problem-ridden China when they have their own domestic issues to sort out and China for them is just a market for resources? The EU would always be there resources-hungry, cash in hand and with less severe demographic issues.

    And an union of the Far East countries which are culturally closer to China is highly unlikely given the recent past. Besides those countries see China as a competitor for foreign investment and would have little economic incentive to associate themselves with a declining China.

    So yes, the empires go down eventually but there's also the issue of who goes down first. It has been seen before: the Byzantines outlasted the Sassanids by almost 900 years and the Romans the Seleucids by 500 years (to mention only the direct rivals).
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    Default Re: China's Rise Exaggerated: A Rational Analysis of China's Prospects as a Future Superpower

    Good stuff to think about. I need to digest before diving in though. Superficial comment -- growing pains are solvable. Best case for China and all countries is to develope. Do not need to compare to the USA or Switzerland. Each human being needs to ask: Is there a reasonable chance that I and my family will be better off tomorrow? And, can I do better?

    Good post. Regards.

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    Default Re: China's Rise Exaggerated: A Rational Analysis of China's Prospects as a Future Superpower

    if india should ever rise over pakistan, we got trouble
    Last edited by Otsman; August 02, 2008 at 04:43 PM.




  17. #17

    Default Re: China's Rise Exaggerated: A Rational Analysis of China's Prospects as a Future Superpower

    Quote Originally Posted by Otsman View Post
    if india should ever rise over pakistan, we got trouble

    or the opposite.... pakistan will cause harms to the world... while india will not..

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    Default Re: China's Rise Exaggerated: A Rational Analysis of China's Prospects as a Future Superpower

    Quote Originally Posted by Otsman View Post
    if india should ever rise over pakistan, we got trouble
    Like how it's been for the entire existance of both countries, you mean? You're living in a funny little world if you think Pakistan has the upper hand in...well, anything compared to India, or ever has for that matter.

    "If America should ever rise over Samoa, the world's in trouble".

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    Default Re: China's Rise Exaggerated: A Rational Analysis of China's Prospects as a Future Superpower

    I'd imagine the Chinese must realise all this and that it's high time to get rid of the one-child policy, as yes, it is obviously running out of workers.

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    Default Re: China's Rise Exaggerated: A Rational Analysis of China's Prospects as a Future Superpower

    Excellent article and narrative. It reconfirms my faith in the scare tactics of our own government to keep all the sheep on edge and in line.

    Thompson45cal.

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