Game Complexity

[Navajo Joe]

I recently started my first game of Stainless Steel as Knights Templar on a VH/VH setting. Basically its gone horribly wrong, overwhelmed by attacks from other factions, lack of cash and miltiary force. I have been used to playing Kingdoms on Hard or Very Hard.
Are the complexity settings equivalent to other TW game settings?
What setting is VH/VH on kingdoms equivalent too?
Have I just chosen the wrong faction to start with?
Also, if you start a game as Early Era, do you get units from the later era at some stage?

[Dooz]

Templar's are definitely one of the harder factions you could have picked. Try going with something a little easier your first time around with the new mod, like England is always a good choice.

And yes, you'll eventually find yourself in the Late Era even if you start from Early, complete with units and everything else.

[Quark]

Navajo Joe
The settings are the same as Kingdoms, but indeed some factions are harder than others to start with. I would always recommend H/VH as a setting, but as Wonderland said when starting a new mod, its best to go with a faction you are familiar with.

SS 6.1 pure (ie without RC or BYG) has many changes, the most obvious being the reduction in unit values (don't worry about this your units are just as strong, its just they have had a great deal of research and time put into making them historically accurate and balanced).

The Templars best bet for survival is to take Antioch (having converted the region to catholic a bit) and Adana to keep the Turks off your back, and use the Crusade option on Gaza (there is a reason for that diplomat near Rome) to slow down Eygpt and give them enemies to fight other than you. Do not join this crusade. Make friends, get Trade, and work you way down the coast until you can take Gaza youself. Once you have that, convert Acre to a city and with that, Jerusalem, Damascus and Antioch you should have a viable economy and a outer ring of defensive forts.

[Navajo Joe]

Thanks very much Wonderland and Quark.

Other than England and Scotland what other factions would you recommend to start to get use to SS?

Quark, when you talked of a Crusade on Gaza, do I call it straightaway?
I understand I don't get involved other than calling it, but does that mean I need to take it off a Catholic Faction at some point?

[ssmarine]

The Danes have a pretty easy starting location, good unit roster, and can make lots of money quickly you might want to consider them.

[Quark]

Navajo Joe
Yes call it straight away, in Turn 1, just after having made an alliance with Pope. It's likely that HRE and France will then head your way, take and get in a war with Eygpt. As they need it they will keep attacking there and eventually take it back, but by then you should have a decent start. I would also then use your diplomat to ally with France or HRE (whichever lost the race) and try and use there retreating army to help you in any fights (HRE helped me take Aleppo, as I attacked with inferior force while army next to Aleppo, rebels came out, HRE took the brunt of the fight ).

Antioch, it is essential that you get Grain Exchange, Port, Roads and Town Hall here. Send merchant of to by Byzantium.

[spartan117]

In the early part of the game the fatmid armies should be easy to defeat. Their armies consist of mostly lightly armored men. although they will be easy, the fatmids will swarm you with faction. I have found it best to not declare war on the Fatmids first. Then have the pope declare a crusade on an egyptian settlement. I do think the fatmids will have to deal with the many crusading armies. Now I during this time do not actually join the crusade because I would not want to fight a war against the Fatmids at this time. Once the crusaders do obtain the settlement they will fight the majority of the fatmids swarms. During this time it will be easier to consolidate your nearby settlements and build up some infrastructure. At the very least it will preoccupy at least some of the fatmid armies.

If you do want to start with the templars, a wise choice might be to migrate to some other place. (Like sicily) If you are using the RR, it may be difficult to replenish losses suffered during battles. If you are using BGR III, it will be much more difficult to replenish losses as the game progresses.

I just read the other posts, seems there are some striking similarities.

[Navajo Joe]

Ok understand, the early turns I build and consolidate position and let other Catholic Factions on Crusades weaken the Fatimids. Then after a couple of crusades I deal them the fatal blow!

I restarted the game last night, captured Antioch, made an Alliance with the Pope and called a Crusade on Gaza. As predicted the French and HRE duly joined the Crusade. I have established Trade Rights with any Catholic faction my diplomat can find, who will place himself between HRE and France on the map.

Next settlement is Adana thereafter and Aleppo after. I will leave Edessa for now as in my failed games before, the Turks were happy to go to war over it.

[moosey]

Ive been playing a campaign as knights templar recently, im about 100 turns in and it has been the best campaign i have played in a long time.

First things first was capturing antioch after which i sat there for a few turns building churches to the highest teir possible. Once you get the religion at 76% catholic you can finally recruit the most basic units.

By this point after a failed crusade on cairo called by the pope, the fatymids had taken most of the levant however when damascus rebelled i managed to take that (as well as alleppo and edessa) and finally managed to buy cyprus from byzantium.

Once again i managed to sit tight slowly converting the populations (i had managed an alliance with egypt and the turks so i was relatively safe).

I finally felt strong enough to (actually managed to get 80% christianity in antioch and tortosa thereby able to buy units, took a while due to annoying imams cancelling out my priests), and called on the pope for a crusade on Jerusalem which almost every catholic country joined.

I sent an army down along with the crusaders and managed to take acre (although got beaten to Jerusalem by the Hungarians). At this point a Jihad got called on Acre (instead of Jerusalem?!?) and i found myself facing stack upon stack of turks, egyptians and kwarziman soldiers.

To make a long story short, i had my ass kicked. Acre fell after 2 seiges, my king was killed defending antioch against the turks, the kwarzimans took edessa from me (most of these towns could not replenish soldiers due to religion. Damascus also fell soon afterwards after most of its garrisson had been sent to try to relieve antioch (my capital).

At this point i just moved out of aleppo deeming it undefendeable (wooden castle surrounded by enemies with inferior garrisson) moved all my leftover troops and ransomed prisoners to tortosa as a last stand.

I managed to defeat several attacking armies at tortosa while cyprus was left relatively alone. At this point (this was many turns after the jerusalem crusade) i called on another crusade this time for antioch in the hope of making the crusading armies give me some respite in order to build up my forces.

Antioch was taken by the HRE and this gave me some time to build up another army which when antioch rebelled a few turns later i managed to recover it. What really saved me at this point was the fact that the turks were losing their settlements in asia minor to the byzantines which meant they had far fewer troops to throw at me and after a ceasefire with egypt i managed over the next few turns to conquer adana and ceasarea as well as reclaiming allepo.

In the turns that followed the turkish faction was destroyed allowing me to take settlements all the way to the caspian sea (my priest by now were all very skilled due to cathedral and theologians guild in antioch) and i am now preparing to take the fight back to the egyptians, hopefully this time with the turks out of the way and the byzantines watching my back (they have lost all their european lands to hungary and venice but i managed to get a ceasefire for them) along with my empire being much better defended i should be able to defeat them with the help of a few crusades.

Nothing quite like surviving a disaster and making good of it. and yeah, this probably should be an AAR, i may have gotten a bit carried away here, lol

[LionQ]

Ive been playing a campaign as knights templar recently, im about 100 turns in and it has been the best campaign i have played in a long time.

(...)

Nothing quite like surviving a disaster and making good of it. and yeah, this probably should be an AAR, i may have gotten a bit carried away here, lol

Nice story; an epic example of "it ain't over 'till it's over". I'm giving the Templars another try as well now thanks to Quark's advice, and admittedly, it is awesome.

[Navajo Joe]

Thanks for the tip Oddball on the Merchants in Egypt, will certainly get that one moving. Like you LionQ the Templars is a campaign I really want to do and win!.
HRE took Gaza in the Crusade and the French lost their General with half of their force before they arrived. Just waiting for the Muslims to call a Jihad now on Gaza!
Going to call another Crusade shortly on Acre, but not join it and let the rest give the Muslim factions a thinning out.
In the meantime I will take Aleppo, possibly Edessa?
My reward from the Council for taking Adana was 4 Cogs, which I cannot afford at almost 800 a turn, so I disbanded them.

[Quark]

Navajo Joe
Some thoughts on pure SS 6.1
St Johns Guild: As next to muslim regions will get this, proparly at Antioch, its a life saver
Jerusalem: Biggest city, so will get a Theologians guild if you spam priests and just keep saying no until it arrives. It is a must, as the bonuses for Guild and Jerusalem stack up for some nice bonuses.
Merchants: Due to the CA merchantile system finding good spots are harder for you, Salt near Venice, Textiles near Constantinople, Gold to the West of Scopia, :hmmm:whatever it is below Al Aqaba, these are good spots. Get a Guild in the third big city you get and spam from there. The trick to good merchants is to get a guild HQ, with >Town Hall and Merchants Quarter. (in SS Eygpt likes explorers guilds, you may have to destroy one in Jerusalem)
Forts: Once you have Gaza save convert Acre and Tortosa to cities, Adana, Aleppo aand Gaza shoul be enough, especially as you should add Kerak soon.
Turks: BEWARE, when I played they started a Jihad against me in Acre, and even though I wiped this out, for the next 200 years plus they warred against me very effectively. You can keep the Egyptians down with crusades, but the Turks require you to fight.
Mongols: In SS they are Islamic, which means they can join Jihads, so do not be tempted to stray to far inland. The coast is where the money is.
Capital: move to Jerusalem when convient, you will get high piety generals next to a big fort (important for those who are Military minded), and they are nearer the crusade action.

[Navajo Joe]

Moosey, that makes very interesting reading and certainly this information going to help with my campaign. Well done, for staying with the game despite the loss of so many of your towns.
Quark's advise seems to make a lot of sense in calling crusades, not getting involved and letting other factions bare the brunt of the fighting. It would seem to get an assassin to take out those pesky imams would be a great way forward, too.
Gaza appears to be a very important Castle to take to seriously damage the Egyptian War Machine.

[moosey]

gaza seems to be their only developed starting castleso is important but for me on my templar campaign, the priest i find are even more important than my armies in actually subjucating the land. I loved this game as it didnt allow me to just spam units and go one huge rampages over the map, the fact that you cant recruit units where you have low religious support took me back to Rome Total Realism.... in fact i might just play it again, lol.

But yeah, in any case the templars are very challenging to play and i find that very rewarding.

[Navajo Joe]

Converting religion within the land is so important and what you have pointed out in building churches and recruiting priests I will certainly do. Its not much about taking the land by miltiary means, but winning hearts and minds, by changing their beliefs and idealogy.

Which city is Egypt's economic powerhouse?

[moosey]

cairo and alexandria can become very rich as well as jerusalem if the egyptians take it. You will also find that because of these cities you will often encounter large militia armies with some advanced units quite early (halberd militia, etc...)

Its is often more of a crippling blow for them to lose gaza as it is their main castle and also the fact that another faction owns it means that the egyptians will commit a lot of troops to claim it back giving you more time to assert youreself in the north

[Oddball_E8]

actually... taking egypt is a real monetary boon for you... send out some merchants in the region and you'll soon be making over 1000 each turn just from the merchants in the area...