Autoresolving battles?

[GraaEminense]

Hi everyone, I'm new here. Have played RTR for quite some time though.

In most of my previous campaigns I've made a point of taking all battles myself, to keep casualties low and, if possible, exterminate the enemy army (neither of which the autoresolve seems to manage). However, after spending too much time hunting horse archer brigands in a Sarmatian campaign, I've discovered the joys of autoresolving when the odds are good enough.

In addition, sieges tend to be costly due to walls, tower defences and unbreakable units on town square -none of which seems to apply to autoresolution.

As a result, I've taken to building "autoresolve-armies" when the cash gets good enough, designed to work as AI reinforcements for a main stack or to fight autoresolution battles. These tend to consist of less attractive mercenary units and the occational cheap retrainable faction unit. No family members, obviously.

Now, when I build an army I know what I want. However, I can't seem to find any logic to how the autoresolve works. It seems to judge strength more or less purely on numbers, and take casualties from the units at the front of the stack.

If I'm right, then cavalry and elephants are pointless in autoresolved battles (and should be left behind if at all possible, due to expense), and my "autoresolve-armies" should ideally consist of the largest cheapest units available.

So, does anyone know how autoresolution battles works?

[AqD]

Yes. More units beat less units. Higher attack beat lower attack. Higher defense beat lower defense.

I hope CA will fix it in ETW by emulating real battles...
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[Mikail Mengsk]

I noticed that autoresolving is good when you assault a city because you 'll suffer low casualities.

[GraaEminense]

So, in short, a full stack of large, cheap units is the ideal "autoresolution army"? Actual army composition and benefits like eagles and frightening are all irrelevant?

Gaul Warbands, here I come.

[AqD]

So, in short, a full stack of large, cheap units is the ideal "autoresolution army"? Actual army composition and benefits like eagles and frightening are all irrelevant?

Gaul Warbands, here I come.

No not really. Because their defense is so low compared to legionaries or other elite units. They'd lose very very badly in autoresolved battle, even though their combat effectiveness isn't that bad in real battle, in which the difference in defense points aren't that important if they're already much higher than enemy's attack.

Army composition doesn't matter, not sure about eagle and frightening.
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Gong Bongs

[Sans-Souci]

I am currently playing a Roman campaign for which I decided to have only autoresolution battles, because I felt the higher losses on my side would be more "realistic".

In the meantime, year 247 BC, in spite of constant merging with less trained reinforcements, my units have gained some experience (most with three red chevrons, and a few silver ones), and my losses are often no longer as high as those of the enemy (Carthaginians in Northern Africa, and Greeks in Illyria).

However, I have my armies always led by a general (a Praetor or Consul of Marcus Camillus' mod, Legates with smaller stacks). Against the Carthaginians, my last heroic victories (defense, outnumbered 2:1, Italian legions and other Italian troops, no Roman hastati, principes nor triarii, taking losses of 300-400 and inflicting more than 1200) may have been caused by the 5 to 8 stars of my leaders. The AI did sometimes attack without any leaders in the stack.

[fourganger]

NEVER use auto-resolve when you are using Horse Archers. Their relative weakness in terms of armour and small unit size means they get creamed 9 times out of 10.

[Jamey]

NEVER use auto-resolve when you are using Horse Archers. Their relative weakness in terms of armour and small unit size means they get creamed 9 times out of 10.

I've done it successfully on walled cities when a spy opened the gates. I'd never do it on more than 1 heavy infantry, pike, or spear unit. It works quite well when there is only a FM or two as a garrison. Of course, the HA army was Sarmatian and it was led by a FM and had 4 heavy cavalry including the FM. That buffers the HAs pretty well on a minor autoresolve, but you will take notable casualties from doing it.

In general, autoresolve does best when you have a large core of high defense high attack heavy infantry with a high command star general. Rome plus most phalanx and hoplite factions can do extremely well with autoresolve. Many barbarian factions tend to autoresolve poorly because their troops tend to have low defense and/or armor. For example, even with gold chevrons and a good general, German troops will get badly chewed up in an autoresolve with a Roman stack. The autoresolve doesn't seem to factor in some of their major features like (1) fast movement, (2) 6 javelins to volley off, and (3) inspire fear in enemy infantry, leading to quick routs.

[Quinn Inuit]

Interesting. I hadn't thought of that with the Germans. Should I give them an extra autoresolve hp to make up for that?

For everyone who just read that and went "WTF?", the second number in the stat_health stat is extra hp for autoresolve. Based on advice found here, I've redone every stat (every. single. stat. blah.) in the ExRM EDU to make autoresolve operate more realistically.

[AqD]

Interesting. I hadn't thought of that with the Germans. Should I give them an extra autoresolve hp to make up for that?

For everyone who just read that and went "WTF?", the second number in the stat_health stat is extra hp for autoresolve. Based on advice found here, I've redone every stat (every. single. stat. blah.) in the ExRM EDU to make autoresolve operate more realistically.

I tried them with RomeTW-ALX and it has no effect at all.

However, it does make AI to think my HAs appear very strong and require more troops to beat them.....
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[Jamey]

Interesting. I hadn't thought of that with the Germans. Should I give them an extra autoresolve hp to make up for that?

That's very interesting. I'd probably give the German javelin armed units +1 HP and the fear inspiring units (elite spears, blackshields, and berserkers) an additional +1. Maybe then the AI Germans will be able to hold off AI civilized encroachment into their lands. That would be an exciting sight to see.

[Drewski]

Interesting. I hadn't thought of that with the Germans. Should I give them an extra autoresolve hp to make up for that?

For everyone who just read that and went "WTF?", the second number in the stat_health stat is extra hp for autoresolve. Based on advice found here, I've redone every stat (every. single. stat. blah.) in the ExRM EDU to make autoresolve operate more realistically.

Quinn, just thought I'd ask you this, you might know....In my Greece campaign pushing into Seleucid lands, I'm having to fight a lot of semi pointless battles...

I'll illuminate:- my mixed lets say 17 Unit stack (Archers, Spartans, Hoplites,Thracians, Some Cavalry), keeps getting attacked by say 6 or 7 units of Gold and Silver Spears (Chyrs and Chalk). Now I'm assuming this is because in the "combat odds screen", it reckons the battle is almost 50/50?....I can probably win this every time with 30 or fewer casualties, just by having the Hoplites hold the Phalanxes in position, and the Spartans/Thracians flank them and attack from the rear...

So I'm wondering if this is something to do with the autoresolve, rating Phalanx Units MUCH too highly? If this is the case, is there any easy fix?

Thanks

[AqD]

Quinn, just thought I'd ask you this, you might know....In my Greece campaign pushing into Seleucid lands, I'm having to fight a lot of semi pointless battles...

I'll illuminate:- my mixed lets say 17 Unit stack (Archers, Spartans, Hoplites,Thracians, Some Cavalry), keeps getting attacked by say 6 or 7 units of Gold and Silver Spears (Chyrs and Chalk). Now I'm assuming this is because in the "combat odds screen", it reckons the battle is almost 50/50?....I can probably win this every time with 30 or fewer casualties, just by having the Hoplites hold the Phalanxes in position, and the Spartans/Thracians flank them and attack from the rear...

So I'm wondering if this is something to do with the autoresolve, rating Phalanx Units MUCH too highly? If this is the case, is there any easy fix?

Thanks

Just reduce the number. 240 for medium/high-end units like phalanx is just too much. Only barbarian levies should have 240 IMHO.
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[Drewski]

Just reduce the number. 240 for medium/high-end units like phalanx is just too much. Only barbarian levies should have 240 IMHO.

Thanks, but which number, where, and to what ?

[Quinn Inuit]

Interesting. So Alex doesn't use that stat?

[CaesarCS]

I don't know if it's true or not, but I've always had better results with auto-resolve when I have a general with a lot of command stars. If I don't have said general the results do feel very random, but Quinn I just downloaded ExRM and I do think the battles do auto-resolve a little more realistically.

[Quinn Inuit]

Good, I'm glad!

btw, I love your .sig--those are a couple of my favorite game-starting quotations. They're so difficult to reconcile, but each one speaks to great truths about human nature.

[AqD]

That's what I do in my mini-mod:

1. Reduce the size of both of phalangitai and hoplitai to 180 men (45 in Data\export_descr_units.txt) -- You need only this.
2. Reduce their discipline from "disciplined" to "normal", but increase the base morale level
3. Compensate the small number of phalangitai by increasing melee attack, to be as high as Roman Hastati (for medium ones such as Pezhetairoi)
4. Compensate the small number of hoplitai by replacing "ligh_spear" with attack bonus against cavalry - which removes spearmen penality against other infantry.

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[Jamey]

I like the normal big size of hoplite and phalangite units.

One thing Quinn did in ExRM which is interesting is make most of the elite hoplite and phalangite units base size 40 instead of 60. It kind of drives home the 'few, the proud, the elite' type of thing. Of course, Spartans with their 2 HP are still a size 30 base unit and worth every denarius of their freaking huge cost (unless you autoresolve, sadly).

[Delvecchio1975]

if you autoresolve, having a general in your army makes a world of difference, in my experience. apart from that, bring lots of heavy infantry. phalangites and legionaries are best.