Worthless unit!

[caralampio]

Nubian spearmen, worthless unit if I ever saw one. They cost 440 florins and 150 to maintain. 4 attack and 9 defense. No bonuses- in fact they are one of the few units in the game that have no characteristics good or bad. Adding insult to injury, they take two turns to build!

Spear militias, which appear in the same fort tier (from garrison quarters) also have 4 attack and 9 defense, have a bonus against cavalry, can take an armor upgrade, and cost only 160 with 125 maintenance. Saracen militia obtainable from cities are 4 attack 15 defense, cost 260 and have 150 maintenance, with cavalry bonus and schiltrom.

The only difference could be that spear militias are peasant, urban militia while nubians are average, late professional (for a late unit, they appear rather early- I'm in 1097 AD). Does that make any remarkable difference?

The question is, why would anybody train nubian spearmen? Is there anything that can be said to redeem this unit?

[moosey]

well you could change the units various stats using the descr_unit file to change the unit youreself, or just let the unit be and use the other units available

[OG Grenadier]

It's the across the board "excellent morale" that is neutering this mod. Introduce realistic morale , it all falls into place. But that's just me and I like warts.

[Sonny WiFiHr]

In loose formation they can fight with their swords

[Byg]

It's the across the board "excellent morale" that is neutering this mod. Introduce realistic morale , it all falls into place. But that's just me and I like warts.

The units might nearly all say excellent morale, but behind that they are all at different levels of morale. If nubians were less than militia before then they still are. The difference is narrower,depending on what submod you use if any.
The effect of this then is that the ai is less likely to rout with the domino effect (a human is usually too clever to let this happen anyway).

[OG Grenadier]

The units might nearly all say excellent morale, but behind that they are all at different levels of morale. If nubians were less than militia before then they still are. The difference is narrower,depending on what submod you use if any.
The effect of this then is that the ai is less likely to rout with the domino effect (a human is usually too clever to let this happen anyway).

I know Byg, I'm not taking the piss. You guys are still punching out the best mod out there.

[Obliterate76]

I didn't care for them on my Fatimid campaign.

[jetlee81]

well there are alot of unit in mtw that no one use such as merchant cav ect. i think to better balance out the useage of unit say if a castle can train mounted sergent and Mailed Knights no one will train mounted sergent . same as sergent spearmen and amored spearmen ect. i still miss the aor in rome totalwar which make use of every unit available. should make some more military based provecne can train amored spearmen and the less have sergent spearmen ect/.

[TeutonicKnight]

Actually I use Merchant Cavalry.

A few free upkeep Cav units are nice to have around for hunting rebels.

[Lupu]

with real recruitment you cannot make armies out of knights, try it
I also use merchant cav, also it has VERY good armor when double upgraded, so it can withstand missile fire well.

[Warspite_TW]

Anyway, I believe that a system of removing the "obsolete" units from the recruitment pool will be beneficial.

[Barser]

Merchant Cavalry is one of my favorite units.

Hmm dont remember Nubian spearmens stats but another unit that sucks is the azabs. But another thread already covered that.

[Banzai!]

I'm so tempted to play the race card.

[strife1013]

peasents...period, end of story

[Inhuman One]

At least the nubian spearmen look unique, the other three spearmen in robes of the moors all wear the same robes that dont fit for the faction and are exactly the same as those of egypt.

[caralampio]

Actually I want to like nubians- if only they were cheaper and didn't take so long to build. They should be cheaper than spear militias so they could actually be an option ("I'm low on money so I figure I'll have to settle for nubians..." something like that).

IIRC in vanilla nubians had the same cost and values as spear militias, but because of their short spear there was really no reason to buy them. RR has made this worse by making them a professional unit, very costly and slow to build. This means nubians=

On the matter of cavalry militia, I like them as territorial units (to use against rebels).

[obbob]

yeah but the only upgrade for nubian spearmen makes them lose their uniqueness.

[crsutton]

Well, the solution might be to give them much more of an advantage in desert terrain. That is where lightly clad non-armored units should own any unit with armor. They should be much faster, and considering that they are from Nubia-fairly immune to heat.

[Wolfgrin]

As I've never played the Moors, the only benefit of the Nubians that I know is that they die quickly from my missile fire.

Actually, I agree with crsutton. They should excel in the heat and desert. Whatever you do, don't send them on a campaign to Novgorod without the Big Fur Coat upgrade.

A close runner-up to Nubes and Azabs is any peasant militia crossbowmen (Italian militia crossbows, esp. Genoese, can at least fight.) They are severely ineffective when shooting from walls (Where they should excel) and worthless in melee. Other threads have discussed them, but I thought I'd add them here anyway.

[Furor_Mancunia]

A close runner-up to Nubes and Azabs is any peasant militia crossbowmen (Italian militia crossbows, esp. Genoese, can at least fight.) They are severely ineffective when shooting from walls (Where they should excel) and worthless in melee. Other threads have discussed them, but I thought I'd add them here anyway.

i reckon this is good for the game. what would be the point of upgrading to better troops if the militia grade infantry were capable? also it would be pretty annoying if nubian spears could stand up to armoured cavalry.