A Question for "Holy Scripture" Believers

[finsternis]

I was thinking the other day while I was visiting my native country (the Dominican republic, a very Christian nation, so Christian we have crosses on our flag and a cross and a bible on our shield) and a thought came to my head and I would like to confirm it: mind helping me guys?
well, here it is; I wonder why do people believe that the bible is the word of god? I mean, isn't the bible the only thing that says that the bible is the word of god? And last I checked that was called circular reasoning.

[Ummagumma]

I think the word you are probably searching for is 'faith'.

[finsternis]

I think the word you are probably searching for is 'faith'.

Yeah, but what tells you that you need to have faith in the bible? The bible does. Again, circular reasoning.

[motiv-8]

Yeah, but what tells you that you need to have fiath in the bible? The bible does. Again, circular reasoning.

You know, it's pretty bad form to guise a sloppy argument in the form of a 'question'. And, by the way.. 'Bible Believer'? You mean a Christian?

And to answer your 'question', it's firmly established by the Catholic Church that the Bible is not meant to be taken as the literal word of God. It's a collection of memoirs, parables, and metaphors meant to describe the ministries of John and Christ and explain how to live a good life.

There also happen to be several Protestant denominations, what we refer to as 'fundamentalists' in the United States, who claim that the Bible is the living word of God. Take it as you may, I disagree.

[Legio]

You know, it's pretty bad form to guise a sloppy argument in the form of a 'question'. And, by the way.. 'Bible Believer'? You mean a Christian?

And to answer your 'question', it's firmly established by the Catholic Church that the Bible is not meant to be taken as the literal word of God. It's a collection of memoirs, parables, and metaphors meant to describe the ministries of John and Christ and explain how to live a good life.

OWNED.

[finsternis]

Christian Bible, Muslim Koran was written by human hands and human can write anything they like. That also includes every other religion.
They are human invations, cause the only proofs they have about what they are saying are from humans.

Finsternis, many other countries, and non-christians ones, put things that reprecent their official religion on their flags and in many more nation's symplos of theirs.



Everyone has every right to believe to what ever god he/she likes and that should not be your concern.

First of all, I am sorry, I should have said "A questions for Scripture believers". the question was meant to be applied to all faiths, but that's my bad for not being detailed. Sorry.
Second, what does representing a official religion has to do with the argument? I know that a lot of countries do that. My native country happens to be one of those countries. The fact that it was kind of lead me to the think of the question. Third, you are wrong. No one is right to believe in something based on simple passion. We should all believe in something because it is logical, or because we have no knowledge of an alternative (in which case it just means that your logic is limited, but you're still using logic). And it does concern me because if you are going to be ruling people's life over such a belief, it better be a logical belief. In the Dominican Republic, homosexual and non-Christians are being harassed and denied right over such a belief and you don't want me to be concerned about it? Do you know how much harassment (from both students and teachers and even the principal I got while I was a child studying over there for being atheist?). Andyou think I should not be concerned.

You know, it's pretty bad form to guise a sloppy argument in the form of a 'question'. And, by the way.. 'Bible Believer'? You mean a Christian?

And to answer your 'question', it's firmly established by the Catholic Church that the Bible is not meant to be taken as the literal word of God. It's a collection of memoirs, parables, and metaphors meant to describe the ministries of John and Christ and explain how to live a good life.

There also happen to be several Protestant denominations, what we refer to as 'fundamentalists' in the United States, who claim that the Bible is the living word of God. Take it as you may, I disagree.

First, again, sorry, the question was meant to be for all faiths, but I apologized for that. Now, second, you said "it's firmly established by the Catholic Church that the Bible is not meant to be taken as the literal word of God". Right there "...the literal WORD OF GOD". How do they know that? How do they know that it is the word of god to begin with? Who told them? I know, the Bible did. This also goes for Koran and all the other holy books. And how to live a good life? Are you crazy? Have you read the bible? it is full of hate and anti-feminism. You mean the gospels tell you how to live a decent life; but not the bible. Oh, and by the way, not all Christians are bible believer. I know it sounds weird, but I have meant a lot of people that call themselves Christians but don't read or do anything the bible says. They kind of do the opposite of what it says knowingly. That is why I said bible believers.

(Why do I always get the impression in these threads that I know more about Christian doctrine and beliefs than 90% of people who are actually Christians?)

Funny, I feel the same with most Christians I meet.

[Cluny the Scourge]

You need something to start you in having faith in something. Otherwise you'd go around having faith at random in crazy like "this mountain is pink", or "the moon is made of cheese". And since there is nothing to have that effect, the word you're really searching for is "weak-mindedness".

[Evolution]

The old testament is the word of god and the new testament is the story of Jesus.

[Cluny the Scourge]

The old testament is the word of god and the new testament is the story of Jesus.

Woah...are you trying to say Jesus isn't God? If you're a Christian, you're freaking me out right now.

[Evolution]

, you're freaking me out right now.

wtf?...


Jesus isn't god. If he was we wouldn't relate to him as the Messiah.

[Cluny the Scourge]

wtf?...


Jesus isn't god. If he was we wouldn't relate to him as the Messiah.

Jesus is not the Son of God, and therefore part of the Godhead, and therefore the living incarnation of God-as-man? That's some pretty radical you've got going there.

[motiv-8]

wtf?...


Jesus isn't god. If he was we wouldn't relate to him as the Messiah.

You're not so good on your Christian theology are you? Does the term Trinity ring a bell? Council of Chalcedon? No? Okay.

[Ummagumma]

I thought he meant that one is a tale by God, while one is a tale about God (in his Jesus suit). The former apparently by dictation or some such, the second being a (can you apply the term 'posthumously' to Jesus? An element of God - therefore immortal, yet the core of his purpose being to die?) 'posthumous' biography.

(I never thought I'd be attempting to defend a religion.. I do not ascribe to it in the slightest, but I guess I can understand it, to a degree..)

It's all a matter of faith.

[Legio]

I thought God was God and Jesus was his son. The Trinity, their own little heavenly triumvirate.

[Eastern Roman]

I was thinking the other day while I was visiting my native country (the Dominican republic, a very christian nation, so christian we have crosses on our flag and a cros and a bible on our shield) and a thought came to my head and I would like to confirm it: mind helping me guys?

Christian Bible, Muslim Koran was written by human hands and human can write anything they like. That also includes every other religion.
They are human invations, cause the only proofs they have about what they are saying are from humans.

Finsternis, many other countries, and non-christians ones, put things that reprecent their official religion on their flags and in many more nation's symplos of theirs.

well, here it is; I wonder why do pleople believe that the bible is the word of god? I mean, isn't the bible the only thing that says that the bible is the word of god? And last I checked that was called circular reasoning.

Everyone has every right to believe to what ever god he/she likes and that should not be your concern.

[Ummagumma]

Can I just frame this entire discussion as it stands as demonstration of the power of faith itself?
Thank you for your patience.

[lakota]

yeah this dude fin has already made up his mind about what he believes in...

all your trying to do with this thread is trying to reinforce your own Idea's, by that I mean you feel better when other people agree with you...

First, again, sorry, the question was meant to be for all faiths, but I apologized for that. Now, second, you said "it's firmly established by the Catholic Church that the Bible is not meant to be taken as the literal word of God". Right there "...the literal WORD OF GOD". How do they know that? How do they know that it is the word of god to begin with?

Uhh dude seriously you just contradicted yourself... THEY JUST SAID ITS NOT MENT TO BE TAKEN AS THE LITERAL WORD OF GOD... (which I agree with)

does that help?

God used these humans to write the bible with GOD being thier inspiration for taking a pen and paper writing the words that now make up the bible...

[finsternis]

Uhh dude seriously you just contradicted yourself... THEY JUST SAID ITS NOT MENT TO BE TAKEN AS THE LITERAL WORD OF GOD... (which I agree with)

does that help?

I'm confused. Dude, the point is not that it is the literal word of god or the metaphorical word of god. The point is that it is the word of god. I shall say it in another way; the point is that they believe that the bible IS the word of god, metaphorical or not, it matters not. But who told them that the bible is the literal (fundamentalists) or the metaphorical (catholics) word of god? The bible did.

God used these humans to write the bible with GOD being thier inspiration for taking a pen and paper writing the words that now make up the bible...

Why does that matter? point is that the bible said it is the word of god. Whether god himself wrote with some divine pen and paper or a simple farmer wrote it on the earth with a stick it matters not. Point is, are people justified in believing that the bible is the word of god? I am not saying that people are not justified in believing in god (few people are, the ones that reach that conclusion by logical thought only, and they are usually deists and thus do not believe in the bible or any holy scripture). But are they justified in believing in the bible. That's the question.

[lakota]

I'm confused. Dude, the point is not that it is the literal word of god or the metaphorical word of god. The point is that it is the word of god. I shall say it in another way; the point is that they believe that the bible IS the word of god, metaphorical or not, it matters not. But who told them that the bible is the literal (fundamentalists) or the metaphorical (catholics) word of god? The bible did.

Im not a moron and I reached the conclusion that bible is (as you say metaphorical) all by my lonesome self... just because logic dicated it, not because of what some verse said in the bible...

Why does that matter? point is that the bible said it is the word of god. Whether god himself wrote with some divine pen and paper or a simple farmer wrote it on the earth with a stick it matters not. Point is, are people justified in believing that the bible is the word of god? I am not saying that people are not justified in believing in god (few people are, the ones that reach that conclusion by logical thought only, and they are usually deists and thus do not believe in the bible or any holy scripture). But are they justified in believing in the bible. That's the question.

as for you point (which I was a lil confused at first :hmmm few things that started 4000 years ago can be justified, take evolution for example, its only a theory thus far, but it makes perfect sense... but can't be proven, for all we know there may come some new radical thing that may disprove it...

the question your asking seems to be more and more retorhical...

ask yourself are you justified in whatever you believe in? wether it be the bible, evoltion or big bang?? nothing of that value can ever be justifed... honestly I don't believe we will ever know...

[finsternis]

Im not a moron and I reached the conclusion that bible is (as you say metaphorical) all by my lonesome self... just because logic dicated it, not because of what some verse said in the bible...

Sorry if I made it sound as if I called you a moron. Did not mean to. Now, if you believe the bible is the word of god (metaphorical or literal, don't care) and it is not because the bible told you so, then may you please answer my original question: what reason do you have to believe the bible is the word of god?

as for you point (which I was a lil confused at first :hmmm few things that started 4000 years ago can be justified, take evolution for example, its only a theory thus far, but it makes perfect sense... but can't be proven, for all we know there may come some new radical thing that may disprove it...

the question your asking seems to be more and more retorhical...

ask yourself are you justified in whatever you believe in? wether it be the bible, evoltion or big bang?? nothing of that value can ever be justifed... honestly I don't believe we will ever know...

well, there is proof for evolution and the big bang (fossils and the fact that the universe is expanding). However, last time I checked, there is no proof for the bible being what it states it is: the word of god.

And I do think that I am justified in being a atheist (not saying that I am right, I could be wrong) but my experience throughout the years plus logical thought plus my knowledge in physics plus that philosophy of religion class that I took in College last semester tell me that: first, a god is not needed for the universe to be the way it is, and second, that a theistic god is very unlike to exists. A deistic god is more likely, but no god at all is even more.

But I could be wrong. I just think that I am not.

Who told us Caesar's exploit in Gaul ? Caesar did (or mainly his slaves or secretaries).

Same concept.

That is true. But was there a guy named Caesar? Yes there was. How we know? We have different accounts from a lot of people that say so. We also have Archaeological evidence. And a bunch of other stuff. now, did he took the Gauls? Evidence show that the Roman empire took over the Gaul.