Accurate Reloading in E:TW

Call me anal, but this is the thing I am most worried about. I haven't seen a single ramrod in all the screenshots I have viewed and I'd hate to think that E:TW will have rapid-firing fusiliers. The inclusion of a manual fire button seems to point to realistic loading but still, no soldiers in the screenshots with their musket butts on the ground, ramming their 'rods.

Does anyone else think this a significant issue? IMO, if they get this wrong it could spoil a great portion of the battlefield experience.

They didn't have bow strings for the archers either so the missing ramrods don't worry me. I'm sure that with all the talk of timing your volleys that is floating around, we can be assured there will be no MG42 type rates of fire.

I guess we'll find out for sure when they talk more about land battles at Leipzig.

Even without the ramrods you'll probably see them reload properly even though you can't see the rod.

Do you NEED Ramrods for Muskets? Going off Sharpe, which may not be the greatest historical source (xD) you can load a Baker Rifle without one but Muskets are different I realise.

I think you can load a musket without the rod, by banging the butt stock on the ground, to get the power and ball to slide down the barrel. However you might get a clip arround the ear from the sergeant as the stock will eventually split and ruin the musket. In emergencies troops did resort to this practice.

So long as the animation fits the motion of using a ramrod I don't see the problem with the actual rod not being visually there. Just makes it one more thing for modelers and animators to worry about which isn't significantly impactful to the gameplay experience.

As Always,
Augustus

i agree with agustus... as long as the animation is correct the fact that the actual rod is missing isnt that big of a deal. its not like you would be able to see much of the rod anyway.

Originally Posted by Augustus Lucifer

So long as the animation fits the motion of using a ramrod I don't see the problem with the actual rod not being visually there. Just makes it one more thing for modelers and animators to worry about which isn't significantly impactful to the gameplay experience.

As Always,
Augustus

Yes it will watching them do the animation without touching anything will be like the bad death animations in m2. A long metal things is hardly the most challenging thing to model. And yes i really want to see accurate reloading. that's one of the things Cossacks 2 got right. We will probably see varied reloading animations depending on the new stress factor too like people fumbling with the rods etc.

Originally Posted by Augustus Lucifer

One thing to keep in mind is that the "Arquebusiers" unit in M2TW have a ramrod as part of their equipment set. Just open up the data/unit_models/_units/rn_light_lmail/ folder in your m2tw installation and copy arquebusiers_lod0.mesh to a separate folder, then use GrumpyOldMan's MESH to MS3D converter to convert it to .MS3D and open it in Milkshape, go to the "Groups" tab, and you can see if you scroll down a group called "hand ramrod_42". Well, it isn't hard to guess what that is. Whether or not the ramrod is used in the arquebusier reload animation I wouldn't know, because myself like I'm sure many others in this thread rarely play past the gunpowder era in a M2TW game. You can check though by making sure it isn't pegged as a late era unit, or just making a new entry based on a cheap unit and substituting the file information for model/skin/etc for the arquebusier and have a battle with them. Either way, ramrods are rendered even in M2TW, just the animation is unsure.

Cheers,
Augustus

There are also ramrod sounds you can extract that aren't used in game. The animation is just them kneeling down and pouring powder down the barrel. You can also hear what sounds like a breach closing I have no clue why that sound wound be on a aquebus. Its hardly realistic. They also have a bug that makes them freeze often when they raise their firearms to fire they just stay there and do nothing until you move them then they fire an empty volley and move. Lame.

Originally Posted by Jack Lusted

Soldiers in Empire do go through the proper motions when reloading.

are the rods visible tho?

I would like to see those ramrods, for the visual and historic appeal.

ramrods would just my the system specs go up

i think we can live with out them

Originally Posted by Templar Knight

ramrods would just my the system specs go up

i think we can live with out them

Yes, they're not high on my priority list, but I wouldn't discourage their inclusion either. Within a couple of years many of us will be running ETW maxed out at very fluid FPS and could probably enjoy the extra eye candy.

One thing to keep in mind is that the "Arquebusiers" unit in M2TW have a ramrod as part of their equipment set. Just open up the data/unit_models/_units/rn_light_lmail/ folder in your m2tw installation and copy arquebusiers_lod0.mesh to a separate folder, then use GrumpyOldMan's MESH to MS3D converter to convert it to .MS3D and open it in Milkshape, go to the "Groups" tab, and you can see if you scroll down a group called "hand ramrod_42". Well, it isn't hard to guess what that is. Whether or not the ramrod is used in the arquebusier reload animation I wouldn't know, because myself like I'm sure many others in this thread rarely play past the gunpowder era in a M2TW game. You can check though by making sure it isn't pegged as a late era unit, or just making a new entry based on a cheap unit and substituting the file information for model/skin/etc for the arquebusier and have a battle with them. Either way, ramrods are rendered even in M2TW, just the animation is unsure.

Cheers,
Augustus

Originally Posted by Augustus Lucifer

One thing to keep in mind is that the "Arquebusiers" unit in M2TW have a ramrod as part of their equipment set. Just open up the data/unit_models/_units/rn_light_lmail/ folder in your m2tw installation and copy arquebusiers_lod0.mesh to a separate folder, then use GrumpyOldMan's MESH to MS3D converter to convert it to .MS3D and open it in Milkshape, go to the "Groups" tab, and you can see if you scroll down a group called "hand ramrod_42". Well, it isn't hard to guess what that is. Whether or not the ramrod is used in the arquebusier reload animation I wouldn't know, because myself like I'm sure many others in this thread rarely play past the gunpowder era in a M2TW game. You can check though by making sure it isn't pegged as a late era unit, or just making a new entry based on a cheap unit and substituting the file information for model/skin/etc for the arquebusier and have a battle with them. Either way, ramrods are rendered even in M2TW, just the animation is unsure.

Cheers,
Augustus

Yes, I have noticed that group when I have had the model up in Milkshape before; however, it's invisible in battles.

In fact, I'll try it again and see if the UV needs to be correctly aligned in the texture coordinator. If it does need to be, I might be able to make the ramrods appear.

Personally, I don't care if they have ramrods. I don't care if there is a reload animation. I just hope that the reload time is accurate. Even though reloading did take a while, this was very important as generals would have to decide to reload and get shot by the enemy, risk that the enemy charges before your men could reload, or charge and hope that you can make it to the enemies lines before they can reload.

.....Leipzig.......

Call me anal, but this is the thing I am most worried about. I haven't seen a single ramrod in all the screenshots I have viewed and I'd hate to think that E:TW will have rapid-firing fusiliers. The inclusion of a manual fire button seems to point to realistic loading but still, no soldiers in the screenshots with their musket butts on the ground, ramming their 'rods.

Soldiers in Empire do go through the proper motions when reloading.

Originally Posted by Jack Lusted

Soldiers in Empire do go through the proper motions when reloading.

Thanks, Jack. I was hoping you would post+rep.

Originally Posted by Jack Lusted

Soldiers in Empire do go through the proper motions when reloading.

i'm not trying to be a , and i personally dont care if the rods r there or not. but u mentioned proper motions, well archers in M2 went through proper motions, but they didn't load a physical arrow and the bow string was never actually pulled back. (looked esp. bad in the Brittania intro where there's a close up of this) so the motions r there, but r the actual pieces there?

I don't worry about Ramrodding but perhaps:
- guns are proloaded and men marches with preloaded gun. I would be really mad ... again if the men step a step forward and they have to reload their weapon again, like in previous TW games.
- if front row fires, back rows still have their gun loaded.
- Animation is not holding up the game and contribute to lag, like it was in M2:TW.

Annie