Tutonic order. How to play them?

[crsutton]

I tried them twice but made very little progress before being overwhelmed. Novorgod seems to be a big problem.

Give me some tips to help me get established.

Thanks.

[satthukaraoke]

Depend on your difficulty but I don't think there is really a strategy in term of building and such when playing an order in SS.

Usually what I do is get the first level of Town Milita (since the castle only give you peasant on first level), then cramp on economic building. The only thing you can do I think is fight the battles yourself and you MUST be brutally effective, that's the only way to survive as Templar or Teutonic.


Get the trade agreement in ASAP, and if all else fail, try to get the Pope crusade the faction that is most hostile to you. In my last game both Turk and Egypt attack me at the same time. Even though I bleed them a bid my cease fire still comes in as "very demanding". So I convince the Pope to crusade against Egypt, and with almost all Europe declare ware on them, at next turn my cease fire with Egypt is considered "very generous".

[Brewskii]

start out on easy until you get better at playing the TO then gradually increase the difficulty

[obbob]

I managed to blitz Novogrod quickly. If you can do that, then you will have a large city which is really helpful early on

[Quercia]

I managed to blitz Novogrod quickly. If you can do that, then you will have a large city which is really helpful early on

Nice suggestion. I always go for eastern Scandinavia's rebel cities: Nykoeping, the island Visby and a castle north of Nykoeping. Turku is also rebel and a fortress to boot. I've never ventured on a war against Russia/Lithuania and rather focused on getting scandinavia first.

[TeutonicKnight]

Some random thoughts...

I've had several successful runs as the TO. However, I've had just as many if not more that ended rather badly.

I've found my chances go up if I bend over backwards to get an alliance with Poland. This secures your southern flank, allowing you to focus on Lithuania. This is a point I would consider absolutely essential.

Trade agreements with the Baltic countries are essential. Your immediate cash is bleeding out rapidly, but as soon as you get two or three agreements, you should be somewhat stable. Cash-wise, it is very important that you make sure you are running as lean and efficient as possible. Keep cavalry to a minimum. I prefer Knechten now because they are cheap cav and remarkably fast, fast enough to catch a fleeing general even. Christ Knights are damn expensive, so I only keep one in my main attack stack. Order spearmen and Prussian Archers should be your bread and butter, with some Sword Brethren added in for good measure. Always make sure though that your military isn't breaking your economy. It's hard to find the right balance.

As long as the Danes hold on to Reval, you are fairly secure against a Novgorod attack, but not completely. It's just lessened odds. Keep a decent garrison in Riga in case they sneak one by. Order Militia are good city troops, but supplement them with a unit of Prussian Archers. The stakes they can lay down will do wonders to help you hold a gate if you are attacked.

Take Hrodna first. You need cash, and it will hit the Lithuanian economy hard.

After that, fight a skirmish and ambush war around Vilnius until they are weakened enough to take the castle. That means use spies so you know where their troops are, and make sure you are hitting smaller stacks so you can win with the least casualties.

If for some reason the Danes lose Reval, as happens quite often due to rebellion, grab it as fast as you can before they or the Rus get it. It will be a great cash cow.

Once you've destroyed the Lithuanians, you should be fairly golden. That's usually when Poland attacks Konigsberg if you don't have a treaty or a solid garrison there.

[rogergargantua]

Nice tactics, TeutonicKnight! I learned a few things there from you!

But im my TO campaign, I did quite the opposite. I made trade rights/allies with Kievan Rus & Lithuania. I first took the cities Turka and the city across the water ( dont know its name ) on the opposite side of turka. I was at war with Novgorod but quickly made peace and a trade right.

I also conquered the city thats on an island between you and Denmark. I believe the city is called Vishu?
So with these 5 cities I stayed low-profile for a few rounds, building up its economy and buildings. Then I checked the faction stats a lot to keep an eye on those who surrounded my TO country. I also checked which land was in least favorite with Papal States ( I was quickly one of the favorites among Papacy ).

A few turns later, Norway totally owned Denmark. They got excommunicated and that gave me the green-light to attack Scandinavia. A lot of turns later, I totally owned all of Scandinavia. A HUGE economy booster if you play it smart ( build ports/ merchant warfs / Merchant fairgrounds/ etc. ). Each city of Scandinavia gives me 5000 gold.

atm, I own most of West-Europe and a big part of the Baltic Region. Crown of Aragon is on France lands. Venice has south-mid Europe ( lying above Italy, widely spreaded ).
The Moors are on Spain lands....but nearly wiped out since I did a huge naval invasion.

[Wolfgrin]

Get an alliance with Poland, so your back is secure.

Understand that attacking Visby will almost certainly bring you into an early war with Denmark, as they seem hard coded to take that island. However, that can be a good thing. Taking Visby and Reval from the Danes will hurt them, and your money problems will ease A LOT.

Consider an alliance with Novgorod, so you can focus on Denmark and Lithuania. Once you're stable, you can attack Novgorod if you like. They're Orthodox. You're a fanatical Catholic. The Pope will understand.

Getting a crusade on Vilnius is a no-brainer.

[rogergargantua]

Get an alliance with Poland, so your back is secure.

Understand that attacking Visby will almost certainly bring you into an early war with Denmark, as they seem hard coded to take that island.

Man, I consider myself lucky. From the start, the Danes never tried to take Visby. I guess they were too busy with a war against Norway. Its cool how campaigns can differ so much. Each guy here tells another story.

[strife1013]

I love the T.O and play as them however the area they start in is very poor from the little time I have spend there playing. Normally I move the faction elsewhere.

So does Scandinavia make that much money once taken over? How from what I have seen there are no "great" settlements in that area. They are mediorce cities that take a while to build up.

[TeutonicKnight]

Scandinavia makes good money. If you can successfully secure everywhere, you've got a nice spot to build up an economy.

The real trick to making money as the TO is getting the trade agreements you need, and building the ports and warehouses you need to exploit those trade agreements. Once you have two or three trade agreements, and two port cities (not castles), you will have cured many of your money woes.

If you can capture Novgorod and Kiev, you will have secured your financial future permanently. Both of those cities are meccas of trade, and will fund your conquests for the rest of the game.

[Wolfgrin]

Visby is a good money maker: mines, good trade. (Tho, unlike rogergargantua, i get attacked by Danes or Norwegians EVERY time I take Visby, whether with TO, Lithuania or Novgorod. Go figure.) Arhus and Lund are the best money makers in Scandinavia, but they are usually very well defended. Eikundersund isn't bad. Neither is Bergen, IF you turn it into a city.

[Quercia]

Yes I saw Gargantua's map one day. It was turn 190 though, but Scandinavia is a money pot. Turn Skara, Uppsala and Bergen into cities. Keep that middle castle as a castle. The great thing about Scandinavia is that it's easy to defend it, so you only need one castle.

Once the cities start to grow, you'll get huge cash inflow.... I've seen it. Gargantua's income from cities varies from 4000 to 6000+. That's 9 cities with such an income. Go figure.

[obbob]

Yeah Scandinavia is probably the second largest money pot in the game, with Italy being first and Outremer being third in my opinion

[Barser]

Yeah Scandinavia is probably the second largest money pot in the game, with Italy being first and Outremer being third in my opinion

Ahhh thats not true. Byzantium area is the best and then probably italy. Scandinavia is not that great imo. Well that is what my experience tell me.

[Musthavename]

Most of the Scandinavian settlements start off pretty badly though. Unless you're Denmark / Norway and you turtle and take time building them up, its hardly the cash cow that some areas are.

Tbh, theres loads of ways you can play this, but you've either got to ally with Poland or Novgorod. Lithuania is fairly small and is probably the easiest target early on. I tend to just blitz Lithuania asap (taking Visby if I can, and Revel if it falls and I can), then go to war with whichever of the two countries I didn't ally with. A Crusade on Vilnius really helps if you can get it. As it means you can get free upkeep for a few turns, helpful considering how poor your economy is.

Alternatively, you can also ally with both Novgorod / Poland and then keep going through Lithuania into Kievan Rus', or go to Scandinavia. Aslong as you make sure you don't have to fight a war on two fronts, you should be ok.

[chapman104]

Well in my AAR campaign i have taken only pskov novgorod and turku from the russians and it seems to have broken their resistance as they accepted ceasefire soon after.
Taking Vilnius early also helps to break the backs of Lithuania. Luckily the Poles got excommunicated so i got a crusade put on Krakow and i took Thorn and Stettin while everyone else attacked Krakow. My Baltic trade brings in incredible amounts of money especially with the Hanseatic League HQ i got in Riga. I have a strong alliance with the danes and have become rich enough to buy all of eastern scandanavia from them.

Heres what my empire looks like at the moment

[TeutonicKnight]

I use the Battle for the Baltic mod now, and "blitzing" Lithuania is simply not possible. Capturing Vilnius cannot be done as a rash act, but must be planned and prepared. This means you need a stable economy, unless you can get a Crusade to save your bank accounts. You also start out at war with Lithuana, and I don't think it's possible to broker a peace.

In straight Stainless, a blitz is certainly viable, but considering your economic situation Hrodna is still a better choice. Trade agreements are essential.

I never really thought about some of the other options mentioned here. Taking Visby before the Norwegians move in is a very tempting consideration. A city there is amazing for trade. I think I'll try it on my next go round, though I've been considering a Norwegian campaign myself. I've pretty much focused on the Pagans and Orthodox regions so far.

[Lupu]

Get alliance with novgorod, blitz vilnius, take reval, and you'll have a pretty good start, then try to kill lithuania while fending off the danish navy, after lithuania is dead invade scandinavia by sea, so I got a teutonic empire.

[strife1013]

What do you guys think about turning Turku into a city? I mean yeah it's a fortress which is all nice and well but it's basically in the middle of nowhere and you can build a port there which seems to me to be the best spot for a city. I mean you have Koinesberg (sp?) as your main castle so you really dont need Turku yea? What do you think?