Roman Civil War Provincial Campaign

[CaesarVincens]

Dime recommended the idea of a Roman Civil war campaign, and I thought I'd see what would be most preferred.

Anyway, here's his post:

...Do you have any ideas for a campaign you would like to work on? I like the idea of a Roman civil war campaign. Some possibilities would be: (1) Quintus Sertorius in Iberia; (2) Julius Caesar vs Pompey; or (3) Augustus vs Marcus Antonius. (1) Would require the least work, (3) would require the most.

So, Sertorius, Caesar vs. Pompey, or Augustus vs. Antony?

It should be possible for the player to play either side, using the otherwise useless Roman Rebels.

I don't know whether we will get to all of them, but the top vote will be worked on first.

[Maraxus]

How about a Samnite War provincial campaign, it would be like a Latin civil war but closer to the RTW time line. They could have a mix of Roman units and the Samnite Mercs, maybe a Greek unit or two.

[DimeBagHo]

Romanes Eunt Domus!

Of the three I think I like Caesar vs Pompey best. Here's a map of the empire at Caesar's death. The site also has maps for various other time points. Caesar should probably start out with control of Gaul and Illyria, and a good quality army in Northern Italy. The rest of Italy should be poorly defended, but Pompey should have larger and better quality forces available outside of Italy. The wikipedia page on Caesar's civil war is useful.

[TM Is Back]

Caesar vs Pompey. That would be very nice to see, very nice. Far better then Octaviunus(Augustus) vs Antony. The front will be Italie/Greece with Caesar vs Pompey while it would be North Africa and Asia Minor with Augustus vs Antony i think.

[LucretiusTC]

Gaius Julius Caesar vs. Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus gets my vote. Besides the civil war aspect it is refreshing to start the campaign with true Legionaries. Parthians in the East should be quite nasty too because the battle of Carrhae in 53 BCE.

I am ready to cross the Rubicon...or save the Republic and the Senate if the duty calls...

Luc.

[DimeBagHo]

Maraxus: A Samnite War would be fun, but I think it would be a lot harder to do it well. With all the action taking place in Italy we would really need a smaller map, and we would need a bunch of Samnite units.

[Unknown Soldier]

There was a rise of rome style mod in the dead mods thread - start of the republic after the last king was removed - had a detailed map of italy eutruscans, samnites, oscan greeks etc.

But I think they canned it and moved into EB or EBII.

[Barend]

I would go for the Caesar vs. Pompey campaign, although I can't vote . Would this mean that the areas controlled by the Romans will be changed?

An other question; which historical battles will be included? And how will the campaign end? Do you have to defeat each opposing side's army or will the death of Caesar or Pompey be enough ? What about Crassus, who died in the Battle of Carrhae, will he get an entire own faction, or will the mod start after this point?

Sorry to ask this many questions, but I'm really excited about this

[CaesarVincens]

I've started work on the Caesar vs. Pompey campaign. Right now I need to decide how to divide an "empire" between them.

I would go for the Caesar vs. Pompey campaign, although I can't vote . Would this mean that the areas controlled by the Romans will be changed?

Yes, the Romans will control much, and other nations will be gone too, no Seleucids, no Pontus, and no Macedon for some.

An other question; which historical battles will be included? And how will the campaign end? Do you have to defeat each opposing side's army or will the death of Caesar or Pompey be enough ? What about Crassus, who died in the Battle of Carrhae, will he get an entire own faction, or will the mod start after this point?

At this point I highly doubt any historical battles will be included. And I think the win conditions will either be outlive the other Roman faction or take certain key provinces, though perhaps with Alexander the death of Caesar and Pompey could be worked in. I'm starting the game at 50BC three years after Crassus was killed.

Sorry to ask this many questions, but I'm really excited about this

No, bring on the questions. I happy to answer what I can, and I am really glad you are excited.

Caesar VS Pompey would be a lot like the BI campaign, an huge roman empire divided in two parts with some smaller factions around plus quite a few dead ones...

In some ways, yes, any Roman civil war would be somewhat like BI, but there will be other differences, and besides, the whole point of the provincial campaign is the Roman factions.



Dime, I was wondering, is there any way of making provincial campaign specific descriptions, so the Roman rebels aren't called just that?

[LucretiusTC]

I've started work on the Caesar vs. Pompey campaign. Right now I need to decide how to divide an "empire" between them.

Besides those official Roman provinces there were many client states like Galatia, Cappadocia, and Pontus that tried to choose their sides and benefit one way or another about the Roman civil war. Without Pharnaces II of Pontus and the Battle of Zela in 46 BCE there wouldn´t be the saying "veni, vidi, vici"...

About the other Factions you could re-locate the Gauls to Britain, Pannonia and Noricum, and there were still some free Iberians left in the northwestern corner of Hispania...

Luc.

[Barend]

I've started work on the Caesar vs. Pompey campaign. Right now I need to decide how to divide an "empire" between them.

You could start with giving Gaul to the Ceasarian faction. Pompey campaigned in Asia Minor and Syria, so maybe this area could be appointed to him.
Ceasar was consul of Gaul and Illyria, so Illyria could be his. Most of the Roman empire was in the hands of the senate.

Perhaps you could start the campaign in 49 BC. and having Caesar and his army stationed at the Rubicon.

[Publius Quirinus]

Voted "Sertorius in Iberia", if only because I don't think Sertorius has been done a lot, but Caesar versus Pompey would be really cool as well.

[Zarax]

Caesar VS Pompey would be a lot like the BI campaign, an huge roman empire divided in two parts with some smaller factions around plus quite a few dead ones...

[atraps]

Wow these are good ideas for provincial campaigns.

I voted for a Caesar vs. Pompey.

[CaesarVincens]

After a bit of research, I've reinstituted Pontus. I brought back the Iberians and moved the Gauls to Brittan. I'm also thinking of putting the Greeks as either just Greek cities that were outside direct Roman rule or a Bosporan Kingdom with the Indie Greeks as the other cities.

[Spartan198]

Difficult choice, but I like the Caesar vs Pompey idea the best.

...Augustus vs Antony also sounds intriguing, though.

[Publius Quirinus]

What about Marius versus Jugurtha? I know that isn't "Roman civil war", but I think there's some potential for an interesting campaign. AFAIK, there hasn't been any attempts at depicting Marius and Sulla in Numidia.

Not sure how that could be done, but hey, I'm just throwing out some ideas.

[CaesarVincens]

Some screen shots for your viewing pleasure.

The man himself, with his legion, ready to cross the Rubicon, and change history forever.


Italy, sympathetic to Pompey, but easily swayed.


Some other areas of the Republic, Greece.


Freshly conquered Gaul.


And The East, also sympathetic to Pompey.


I'm working on city infrastructure, and military, right now.
Though I'm finding that other than starting positions, only scripts can really give any historical realism to the actions of the AI.

[LucretiusTC]

And The East, also sympathetic to Pompey.

Here some comments about those maps.

About those regions in Asia Minor c. 50 BCE, the Ptolemies had lost their possesions there (Pamphylia and Pisidia), and the Romans took Cyprus in 58 BCE as well. One of the Seleucid kings, Antiochus VII Sidetes took his surname from Side. In the early first century, it was deeply involved in piracy and conquered by the Romans. http://www.livius.org/paa-pam/pamphylia/pamphylia.html

What comes to Pharnaces II as the son of Mithradates VI, he was the king of Pontus and Bosporus for a while, but in 47 BCE his regent Asander revolted against him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asander_(Bosporan_King). So actually Pompey had granted Pharnaces II the Bosporan Kingdom (in 63-47 BCE), but when the civil war broke in 49 BCE Pharnaces invaded Asia Minor and occupied regions like Colchis and Pontus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharnaces_II_of_Pontus . So it was quite tricky situation there.

Otherwise I don´t know what would be the best way to represent those various Roman client states. Even the big country like the Ptolemaic Egypt had to listen carefully what the Roman Senate might say at this time. Afterwards as we know Pompeius got killed in Egypt, but he had lost the Battle of Pharsalus in Greece before that.

About those Roman sides, we could use the terms "Caesarian" and "Pompeian" if there is a need to rename those Factions.

Luc.

[TM Is Back]

CV