Can we agree the government has UFO's?

[Da Skinna]

I mean, it's understandable to keep that klind of information from the people. It would scare them.

So can we finally agree that the government keeps this crap from us?

Or a better question really, who still believes the government when they say stuff like weather balloons and crap?

[ajm317]

Uh, that depends what you mean by UFO's.

I certainly do not agree the U.S. has flying saucers reverse engineered from alien spacecraft hidden in the basement if that's what you're implying.

[gambit]

I believe they have very sophisticated technology that they haven't revealed to us.

[roy34543]

Armies use far far superior technology then what they reveal. I would not be surprised if they have some really high tech stuff there under wraps.
But i doubt they have a flying saucer or have seen an event with a flying saucer in it. Maybe a UFO but thats actually very easy. Its a unidentified flying object after all.

[Saturn]

The government wants you to think what you see are UFOs and little green men. Thats the whole point. If aliens did it then they don't have to deal with it. These "UFOs" people see are probably nothing more then experimental aircraft. When the public sees one of these aircraft having them all say aliens are behind is actually convienient. It's just a way they can use to not reveal secrets to other countries and the public.

[Tankbuster]

The government wants you to think what you see are UFOs and little green men. Thats the whole point. If aliens did it then they don't have to deal with it. These "UFOs" people see are probably nothing more then experimental aircraft. When the public sees one of these aircraft having them all say aliens are behind is actually convienient. It's just a way they can use to not reveal secrets to other countries and the public.

Exactly. Same with the Roswell incident. It was probably a spionage balloon. It crashed. The army was scared that the press would reveal something, but then the press took a weird conclusion: aliens!
The army couldn't be more happy. In fact, I bet they often 'leak' some information about made-up alien experiments to keep people busy.

[Simetrical]

There are a lot of things that the government keeps secret from us, for reasons of national security. This includes avoiding scaring people and so forth, sure. But I very much doubt they have any kind of alien artifacts, because it seems very unlikely that intelligent aliens have ever reached Earth.

I think that mostly they do make the broad outlines of the technology they have available public. I mean, I'm pretty sure they don't have invisibility suits or quantum computers and they just aren't telling anyone. It's mostly the details they don't make public. So people mostly know what technology they have, they just don't know enough to replicate it, or to gauge its precise capabilities.

[Sphere]

Can we agree the government has UFO's?

I am not making up my mind until I see the new X-Files movie.

[chris_uk_83]

It depends what you mean by UFOs; the U stands for Unidentified, and of course, every aircraft is unidentifiable by someone. I wouldn't successfully be able to identify the precise make and model of a plane that flew over.

On the other hand, everything that flies around our skies is identifiable by someone, even if it is a small, select group of people who built it in the first place.

[Da Skinna]

I worded it wrong. Knowledge of aliens then.

And interesting theory about the military using aliens as a cover...

[ajm317]

I worded it wrong. Knowledge of aliens then.

Then no we can't agree on that.

[Farnan]

I worded it wrong. Knowledge of aliens then.

And interesting theory about the military using aliens as a cover...

Of course, I'd be suprised if counter-intelligence wasn't involved in that, especially with Area 51. We were able to test aircraft there and whenever a civilian would take a picture he would report it as an alien and the press and the Soviets would ignore him as a cook.

[Maverick]

I believe they have very sophisticated technology that they haven't revealed to us.

You think?

Aliens? Who knows. UFOs? Absolutely.

UFO means Unidentified Flying Object, anyone who studies the evidence must conclude that there are craft(s) in the air bu there is no knowing who or what pilots them or makes them because they don't stick around for Q+A. I think 99% of all UFO reports are .

The 1% of sightings that are also corroborated by radar and other empirical evidence and come from sources whose integrity is beyond question are the cases that interest me. I don't know what the government knows if anything, but I know they have no particular interest and certainly don't feel obligated to tell the public anything and have no personal qualms about outright lies (we lost that file) and insults (swamp gas) etc.

If anything the experiment shows how powerless and insignificant the "people" are in our great democracy. Everything is on a need to know basis and apparently it's been decided that we don't need to know .

[dwringer]

I forget the exact situation with Roswell but I believe it had something to do with stolen Soviet secrets, I can't remember if it was related to RADAR or their nuclear program or what . . . I even found some explanations of the strange symbols alleged to be printed on some parts - supposedly some of the parts used were manufactured by a Soviet toy company, thus there were things like hearts, diamonds, clubs and spades, etc.

I wish I remembered the sources for this stuff, but it was pretty damn convincing - even after reading dozens of pages of declassified documents from the US Govt about it.

[LegionnaireX]

I forget the exact situation with Roswell but I believe it had something to do with stolen Soviet secrets, I can't remember if it was related to RADAR or their nuclear program or what . . . I even found some explanations of the strange symbols alleged to be printed on some parts - supposedly some of the parts used were manufactured by a Soviet toy company, thus there were things like hearts, diamonds, clubs and spades, etc.

I wish I remembered the sources for this stuff, but it was pretty damn convincing - even after reading dozens of pages of declassified documents from the US Govt about it.

I've actually been to Roswell and spoken with some people that lived there around the time of the crash. Whatever it was, it was not a weather balloon. They don't me some pretty spooky things. If you'd like I can share them.

[ajm317]

I've actually been to Roswell and spoken with some people that lived there around the time of the crash. Whatever it was, it was not a weather balloon. They don't me some pretty spooky things. If you'd like I can share them.

Sounds like some people playing tricks on a gullible tourist.

The Roswell "incident" was most likely exactly what the military says it was, a crashed balloon from the Project Mogul experiment to observe Soviet nuclear tests.

Even if that is not what it was (and frankly I see no reason to think so) "alien spacecraft" is the last thing anyone should think it was.

[LegionnaireX]

Sounds like some people playing tricks on a gullible tourist.

Are you accusing me of being gullable? I was skeptical at first of the man for the very same reason. Upon questioning him he seemed pretty legit. What makes it so hard to believe that I talked to someone who lived in Roswell in 1947, IN ROSWELL? Strange things DID happen their in 1947, and that was all the man was willing to admit. He told me he wasn't sure what exactly happened but he was able to recount a series of strange events happening at the time.

As usual, you act as though eyewitness evidence is actually useful without hostile cross-examination. In this case, eyewitness evidence from decades after the event.

I'm not trying to prove anything, Simetrical. You seem to get off on treating me like a dumbass. I understand that eye witness testimony can be taken with a grain of salt, but I also understand that people have memories. Even if every detail of the man's story wasn't correct, unless the man is retarded he would be able to recount events from his past.

I understand that eye witness accounts of events can sometimes be misremembered or wrong, but to simply write it all off on the basis that nobody can remember anything is ridiculous. That is a conspiracy theory in and of itself.

Regardless, nobody thinks it was a weather balloon. The US military officially acknowledges that it was a balloon from Project Mogul. It was said to be a weather balloon at the time, because the project was top-secret. It's now been declassified

There is a lot of people who would disagree. This story may make sense by itself, but when put into historical context it doesn't add up.

[MrMofo]

i've always been sceptical about it. It does seem counter intuitive. But then you can hear recorded cockpit conversations from commercial pilots and astronauts, and even see unusual footage from the ISS. Seemingly credible sources, so i'm keeping an open mind about it.

The real problem is, nobody believes anything nowadays, not even what they are told is true, or what they see or hear. You can thank cgi and photoshop for that, and spin on the tv 24/7.

We live in an incredulous age.

[Chaigidel]

Im just not entirely convinced the "technology boost" we got around the time of the supposed crash were all long in development and came about largely by accident; I dont put much stock in a crashing alien ship.

[Simetrical]

i've always been sceptical about it. It does seem counter intuitive. But then you can hear recorded cockpit conversations from commercial pilots and astronauts, and even see unusual footage from the ISS. Seemingly credible sources, so i'm keeping an open mind about it.

There are absolutely some very weird things that occur. But the answer is "we don't know", not "it's aliens!" Or "it's ghosts!" Or "it's magic!" Or "it's God!" It's just . . . we don't know. Anything further is just going to reflect your own biases.

I've actually been to Roswell and spoken with some people that lived there around the time of the crash. Whatever it was, it was not a weather balloon. They don't me some pretty spooky things. If you'd like I can share them.

As usual, you act as though eyewitness evidence is actually useful without hostile cross-examination. In this case, eyewitness evidence from decades after the event.

Regardless, nobody thinks it was a weather balloon. The US military officially acknowledges that it was a balloon from Project Mogul. It was said to be a weather balloon at the time, because the project was top-secret. It's now been declassified.

Im just not entirely convinced the "technology boost" we got around the time of the supposed crash

When technology boost? Nothing much started right then. We were already in the middle of a scientific/technological revolution, and had been for at least a century. Computers may have started to take off around then, for instance, but that had been in the making for decades.

Besides, if we uncovered artifacts of a civilization that's able to fly from a distant solar system to Earth, they'd be useless to us. Imagine giving the top scientists of a century ago a modern computer. They'd just break the thing trying to figure out how it worked. There's no possible way they could use it to improve their own technology.

I'm also in the camp that doubts the government would be able to keep something this significant secret for fifty years, at least if they knew about it the whole time. If they destroyed all records and nobody told their successors, it becomes marginally more likely on this score, but still implausible given the implausibility of aliens.