Advice for the Sarmatae campaign.

[Borabora]

hellow !

So i just installed RTR a day ago, and i began a caampaign a the Sarmatae, i expanded through Thrace easily and only with Horse Archers (hippotoxotai or something like it >_< ). But now i am faced to a big problem, the Black Plague.

So, the macs began to send stack after stack of slow phalanxes at me. In battle, they cant catch me, but it takes 3 HA units to get down a big bulky armored phalanx, so i run out of ammo quite fast and can only get rid of 3-4 phalanxes before fleeing the battle. ( and that gives bad Traits to my general, cose fleeng is a defeat
My HA units all have 3 silver or 1 gold XP, with bronze weaponry. My "Heavy Cavalry" is only bronze experienced, cbut these are useless, even when i charge the back of a phalanx, lotsa men die in the charge :p.

So how can i take down a 3/4 stack of Mac phalanxes with the Sarmats ?
And how can i stop their economy ?

I think im gonna send a suicidal attack on greece, crushing athens, corinth, sparta to the ground, but the problem is, i cant permit myself to go by ship, i cant take the risk to lose my men in a stupid naval battle.

I could go bt foot, but then i will have to crush 2 or 3 full mac stacks, and i cant ....

Should i cange the composition of my troops ? i got two stacks like this, ! general, 8 HA 2 sarmatian heavy cavalry, 2 sarmatian kataphracts. 1 could add some Thracian heavy cavalry or even thracian light cavalry for the javelins at short distance with armor piercing . dunno ?


waiting for your advice

[Jamey]

I just finished a campaign as Sarmatia using the ExRM. The biggest change in the pikemen between the two is that in ExRM the shield value for them tends to be smaller. You can see my post about my campaign here if you want. In general, I could use my HA armies to wipe out anything I could catch in the open as well as anything behind wooden walls (I had a carefully trained up spy squad to open gates!). I'd also occasionally autoresolve open gate battles against stone walled cities when the garrison was a only generals. Autoresolving against even single pike units tends to be costly for you.

In any version of RTW, the shield and armor are your only defense against missiles. In the case of Macedonian pikemen (both pez and chalks) in RTR, they have 6 armor and 6 shield (versus your base of 7 missile attack). To take them out, you need to get your HAs behind the pikes and shooting into their rear and their right (non-shield) flank. This will generate a lot more casualties per volley. Having a good general is also important - as I understand it, each command star adds one to the attack of every unit in your army, which drastically improves your HA attack values. If your generals have all lost their stars, you may need to grow a new crop of them or restart your game.

My cavalry armies had one or two generals plus other heavy cavalry to reach 4 units of heavy cavalry total. If I didn't have paired generals, I paired my general with the heavier of your heavy cavalry. The other two heavy cavalry were the lighter one, which moves like a light cavalry. The lighter heavies are a great option for running down enemy heavy cavalry (like their generals) as they are strong enough to fight them man to man as well as fast enough to run them down when they're routing. I used this melee cavalry for chasing routers and for breaking wavering units. This last is key. If you charge 2-4 cavalry into the flank or rear of a unit wavering from arrow casualties, it will break every time. This way, you can often slaughter a unit in melee when it is around half or two thirds size rather than trying to shoot it dead to the last man. Just be careful of shooting your own guys - your experienced HA units' arrows will penetrate your heavy cavalry's armor!

The rest of my army was 16 HAs. I normally grouped them in 4 unit groups, which gives you enough arrows per volley to be able to break units without killing them outright. The first thing I always did was target and eliminate all ranged units, whether archers, slingers, or peltats. They can most easily damage against you if you make a mistake (it takes a lot longer to get to melee than to javelin range). Against tougher targets, I would turn Fire At Will off to ensure that everyone was shooting at a nice fat juicy target from a non-shield location.

In general, the key to using HAs effectively is to generate routs before you kill the whole unit. To do that, you need to know how to break morale. The biggest factors available to you are: generate a lot of casualties quickly (arrow volleys and cavalry charges work nicely), get units near or attacking the flanks and rear of units, fighting cavalry in melee, seeing nearby units rout, and killing or routing the enemy general. This last is a very powerful tool, as it causes every unit on the battlefield to take a morale hit. This can cause a cascade that rolls through the enemy force if timed properly. Of course, once a unit is routing, you need to have a cavalry unit chasing it and putting pointy things (either lances or arrows) into the guys running away to keep them from recovering and fighting more.

If you want an infantry based army, your options are much more limited. Thracian infantry, when experienced, is quite effective. Its melee attack is better than you expect against tough foes because it has the armor-piercing attribute. I'd recommend something like 8 Thracian infantry, 8 Sarmatian foot archers, 4 horse archers, and 4 heavy cavalry (including 1-2 generals). If need be, swap in more Thracians for some of the foot archers. I'd definitely keep the HAs - their mobility makes them devastating. My infantry based armies used the foot archers behind the line and the HAs roaming around the flanks and rear of the enemy army to generate casualties or, even better, get the AI to split its force. For siege and town defense purposes, I wound up pulling the HAs and replacing them with Galatian Swords, which I could recruit locally as mercs (I was in Asia Minor at the time). They're heavy hitters who do very well at taking walls.

Best of luck! I had a lot of fun with my Sarmatian campaign. It took a major adjustment to my play style, as it involved very few set piece battles outside of sieges (which is what I used my melee armies for). In ExRM, you have more melee options available to Sarmatia, which made sieges easier. I still wound up doing most of my damage to enemies with HA armies.

I particularly enjoyed controlling Cyprus. I would periodically send HA armies by boat from Cyprus into Seleucid and Ptolemaic lands. They would go out into the wide open desert and pick off stacks on flat plains. As long as there were no dust storms, it was perfect terrain for shooting phalanxes in a barrel! When my stacks got dinged up, I'd bring them back across Asia Minor to retrain in Crimea. Eventually I would have gotten barracks built up on Cyprus, but I'm taking a break from that campaign. As you've noticed, the battles take a lot of micromanagement to be effective.

One final note: if you're playing Sarmatia on a battle difficulty higher than Medium, I'd restart. The global morale bonus for your enemies will probably make my described tactics for generating routs worthless. I really don't see how you would win battles using your cavalry versus full stacks of pikes without being able to generate routs in the pikes.

[AqD]

hellow !

So i just installed RTR a day ago, and i began a caampaign a the Sarmatae, i expanded through Thrace easily and only with Horse Archers (hippotoxotai or something like it >_< ). But now i am faced to a big problem, the Black Plague.

So, the macs began to send stack after stack of slow phalanxes at me. In battle, they cant catch me, but it takes 3 HA units to get down a big bulky armored phalanx, so i run out of ammo quite fast and can only get rid of 3-4 phalanxes before fleeing the battle. ( and that gives bad Traits to my general, cose fleeng is a defeat
My HA units all have 3 silver or 1 gold XP, with bronze weaponry. My "Heavy Cavalry" is only bronze experienced, cbut these are useless, even when i charge the back of a phalanx, lotsa men die in the charge :p.

So how can i take down a 3/4 stack of Mac phalanxes with the Sarmats ?
And how can i stop their economy ?

I think im gonna send a suicidal attack on greece, crushing athens, corinth, sparta to the ground, but the problem is, i cant permit myself to go by ship, i cant take the risk to lose my men in a stupid naval battle.

I could go bt foot, but then i will have to crush 2 or 3 full mac stacks, and i cant ....

Should i cange the composition of my troops ? i got two stacks like this, ! general, 8 HA 2 sarmatian heavy cavalry, 2 sarmatian kataphracts. 1 could add some Thracian heavy cavalry or even thracian light cavalry for the javelins at short distance with armor piercing . dunno ?


waiting for your advice

Your best chance is to destroy their stacks by fighting defensely, luring them to siege your towns where heavy garrison (all HAs) have been prepared.

Then, open the gate, turn on fire-at-will and turn off skirmish mod. Send all HAs out to follow their ass => because AI always tries to move its army away from the wall and gate. Usuaully you can destroy 1/3 or 1/2 of enemies before they reach the destination, and rout the remaining ones and then wipe out all of them before they can reach the border
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Aire Vaporizer Reviews

[fourganger]

Download Metro-naval, it'll make your life a hell of a lot easier.

Jamey gave some very good advice. I'd only add the following;

Lose the Cataphracts. They are only there to deal with enemy heavy cavalry. However, heavy cavalry will probably chase after your HAs, which will tire them out, and then you can simply charge them with your lancers for an easy victory.

If you re-start the campaign, I'd let Thrace live. the stronger Thrace is, the more time time you have to prepare your economy for Macedon. Also, fighting the Macedonians further North benefits you. The land above the Danube is perfect for HA warfare.

I once totally defeated Macedon's military in Tribus Getae. They sent 8 full stacks within the space of 2 years, and all were annhilated. My army then swept into Greece with practically no further opposition, with the exception of hastily recruited mercs from the East. Greece is quite hilly, which by and large does not benefit you, as the AI will usually deploy on the highest point, making your arrows less effective, and all but nullifying the charge of your lancers.

I almost never use infantry. But I'd suggest you try and use mercs for garrisons whenever possible. Your native units (including infantry) don't have the largest unit sizes, so mercs which do make a better garrison.

Finally, don't get tied up in the West. The Balkan area is profitable, but attracts a lot of interest. Historically, the Sarmatians raided over the Danube but also into Asia. I'd recommend you go East. Armenia can be quite tricky for Sarmatians if they get too powerful, as their armies are more geared owards taking out HAs. Take them out when they are small, and take Pontus too. Despite your Barbarian status, control of the Black Sea will pretty much give you the world's best economy.

[Jamey]

If you re-start the campaign, I'd let Thrace live. the stronger Thrace is, the more time time you have to prepare your economy for Macedon. Also, fighting the Macedonians further North benefits you. The land above the Danube is perfect for HA warfare.

I once totally defeated Macedon's military in Tribus Getae. They sent 8 full stacks within the space of 2 years, and all were annhilated. My army then swept into Greece with practically no further opposition, with the exception of hastily recruited mercs from the East. Greece is quite hilly, which by and large does not benefit you, as the AI will usually deploy on the highest point, making your arrows less effective, and all but nullifying the charge of your lancers.

I almost never use infantry. But I'd suggest you try and use mercs for garrisons whenever possible. Your native units (including infantry) don't have the largest unit sizes, so mercs which do make a better garrison.

Finally, don't get tied up in the West. The Balkan area is profitable, but attracts a lot of interest. Historically, the Sarmatians raided over the Danube but also into Asia. I'd recommend you go East. Armenia can be quite tricky for Sarmatians if they get too powerful, as their armies are more geared owards taking out HAs. Take them out when they are small, and take Pontus too. Despite your Barbarian status, control of the Black Sea will pretty much give you the world's best economy.

If you can manage it, I recommend starting by taking Crimea, then taking Kotais and Albania before Armenia does. If you manage that, you can sit back for a bit to build infrastructure, maybe working on taking Campus Sakae and Campus Massagetes (though, you get the latter at the start in ExRM ) to increase the Caspian Sea trade.

[fourganger]

If you can manage it, I recommend starting by taking Crimea, then taking Kotais and Albania before Armenia does. If you manage that, you can sit back for a bit to build infrastructure, maybe working on taking Campus Sakae and Campus Massagetes (though, you get the latter at the start in ExRM ) to increase the Caspian Sea trade.

QFT.

One of the Crimean settlements would also make a fine capital if you expand eastwards and engulf the Black Sea.

[Mikail Mengsk]

Kotais should be taken quickly because of its valuable gold mines. Anyway, if you take it prepare to be at war with Pontus or Armenia, or both of them: they all want to capture Kotais!

[Jamey]

Kotais should be taken quickly because of its valuable gold mines. Anyway, if you take it prepare to be at war with Pontus or Armenia, or both of them: they all want to capture Kotais!

Albania is a bigger deal in ExRM because you cannot build large boats in any other convenient Caspian port. With only small boats, you need a horde to take out rebels ships.

[Borabora]

Thanks for the Advices

So i began a new campaign with the sarmatians, and i expanded towards ger,many and east into siberia, i got 3/4 of a stack to go kick asses in the south east, towards armenia. The thraces are still alive, but macedonia just conquered entire greece.

My new problem is .... Economy .

Before, by expanding in Thrace , my economy was OK, the lands there are quite wealthy. but now, my 3 towns in siberia are at -400, and i just cant get them going up ! My germanic towns have quite low income, and it is going down .Same for all my towns in fact, im loosing my income at a fast rate ... makes me sick .

Any Tips ? i focus on building mines/ports first; then markets and the routes. But still, its going down .

I got 3 armies, 1 going toarmenia, one pushing in germanic lands, and the other is heading towards macedonian, to raid their towns .

[AqD]

Don't waste resource on the poor germans. Just take greece and you'd own the world!
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Zoloft Settlements

[Mikail Mengsk]

Don't waste resource on the poor germans. Just take greece and you'd own the world!

totally agree, and sack every city you conquer: this will grant you moneys and a city that will be a little less problematic to rule.

[Vectis]

Yes, you need to send a couple of stacks through Macedonia and try to capture Athens, Corinth, Sparta etc. When they have these rich cities they are able to send an endless number of stacks against you. Only when these are out of their control will the balck tide start to turn.

You can also use the AI's under estimation of HA's to good affect en route. I tend to besiege a few of the cities on the way to the main cash cows in the South with a few units of HA's and some heavy cavalry. The Macedoniains on their turn invariably sally forth and when you defeat them you gain the city. You can then destroy all the buildings for much needed cash.

By the way remember to put a few spies in all your home cities, for one trick of the Macedonians is to send a few plague bearing spies into your cities which can be annoying.

Also one tactic I found worked is when fighting a battle against their phlanx formation try to surround their lines with your HA's and fir from all directions until your arrows run out. Then try to put a unit infront of a phlanx to draw it away from the main body. Once it is isolated keep it moving by slowly moving the unit infront and then charge three of your units of HA's into their back. When you see the spears change direction retreat and charge the original unit into their back. The spears will change again so retreat that unit and charge with the others. Repeat until they run away.

[fourganger]

No one here mentioned Germany in our advice. AVOID GERMANY! It is poor and hard to keep hold of.

A useful tactic in battle is to use your general as bait. Macedonian phalangites will pretty much home in on your general if he's near. They do this to the extent where they leave themselves open to missile attacks from behind. Just remember that your general does not have skirmish mode though.

[Tusk]

Jamey "Having a good general is also important - as I understand it, each command star adds one to the attack of every unit in your army, which drastically improves your HA attack values. If your generals have all lost their stars, you may need to grow a new crop of them or restart your game."

Is this true? If you have a five star general is that five more attack or defensive points?

[AqD]

Jamey "Having a good general is also important - as I understand it, each command star adds one to the attack of every unit in your army, which drastically improves your HA attack values. If your generals have all lost their stars, you may need to grow a new crop of them or restart your game."

Is this true? If you have a five star general is that five more attack or defensive points?

Probably, check this post

It currently affects both morale and combat ability - we tried it for a while with just morale, but it ended up being not enough of a bonus. The combat calculations have changed so much from Rome to Medieval as to be unrecogniseable, so it's no longer easy to equate stars to experience.

As a rule of thumb it's one point of attack per command rank, up to a maximum of 10, and this can become negative for very bad generals. This combat bonus is applied to all troops under his command on the battlefield. Experience is one point of attack and one point of defense per chevron, plus a morale bonus as well.

The general's command also controls his radius-of-effect, which is set to 30 m + 5 m * command + 2 m * influence. This is used to award morale bonusses to nearby units (in addition to the combat bonus), and when testing which units are affected it tests the distance between the actual general's position and the centre-point of the unit being considered.

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WanessaLove

[Jamey]

Thanks, aqd. I wasn't 100% sure it was 1 point per star, but that's what I remembered it was in RTW.