Russia and China veto Zimbabwe sanctions

[MyNameIsGreat]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080711/...af/un_zimbabwe

Not surprising at all that China and Russia don't value human rights or democracy at all. I don't see why a communist nation and a corrupt "democracy" should even have veto powers.

[John I Tzimisces]

Good to see South Africa has a spine too.

[Joker85]

Incoming "OMG REMEMBER WHEN AMERICA DID X" excuse makers.

[MyNameIsGreat]

Yea, well next time people criticize the US for not listening to the UN, I'll remind them of this. The UN is useless. Why do Britain and America need permission from crap countries like Russia and China to act?

Good to see South Africa has a spine too.

Yeah, it takes a pretty sturdy spine to do nothing.

[Lord Consul]

Incoming "OMG REMEMBER WHEN AMERICA DID X" excuse makers.

The US did veto a number of sanctions on very repressive states, like Pinochet's Chile. I guess that since it was Gerald Ford instead of Vladmir Putin who did it makes it more acceptable.

I'm not surprised by their veto. Permanent UNSC members do that all the time.

[pwf224]

Looks like the Russia US flame war begins again. I'll let everyone know we've moved over to a new thread, lol

[bushbush]

psh, like US was really gonna do anything even if the proposal passed.

[John I Tzimisces]

psh, like US was really gonna do anything even if the proposal passed.

Uh, exactly. The UN was going to be the one placing sanctions on Zimbabwe. Which presumably would be binding to all UN member states surrounding the country.

[bushbush]

Uh, exactly. The UN was going to be the one placing sanctions on Zimbabwe. Which presumably would be binding to all UN member states surrounding the country.

psh, like sanctions work, ask Burma.

"The proposal would have imposed an international travel ban and freeze on personal assets of Mugabe and 13 key officials".


tell me how this gonna help the people in Zimbabwe?

[John I Tzimisces]

"The proposal would have imposed an international travel ban and freeze on personal assets of Mugabe and 13 key officials".


tell me how this gonna help the people in Zimbabwe?

Presumably garnering support from the international community and smacking mugabe's image around some more would count as pressure to make concessions to the opposition.

Don't tell me you think doing NOTHING is a better idea? Just because that's China's position..?

[bushbush]

Presumably garnering support from the international community and smacking mugabe's image around some more would count as pressure to make concessions to the opposition.

Don't tell me you think doing NOTHING is a better idea? Just because that's China's position..?

dude, banning travel and frozen foreign assets (if they have any under their actual names) are like no sanction at all LOL. I thought they at least gonna propose something like ban on luxury goods or key resources or some.

typical Western half-hearted effort. I think China and Russia actually did them a favor to relieve them the duty to do something since this proposal didn't sound like they wanted to do anything at all.

Tell me how vetoing any action at all will help the people in Zimbabwe? It only helps China.

it helps the West. They don't have to do nothing (like they wanted to do any with that kind of proposal) and still claim the moral high ground. I think they should send Putin and Hu gift baskets.

[MyNameIsGreat]

psh, like sanctions work, ask Burma.

"The proposal would have imposed an international travel ban and freeze on personal assets of Mugabe and 13 key officials".


tell me how this gonna help the people in Zimbabwe?

Tell me how vetoing any action at all will help the people in Zimbabwe? It only helps China.

[Carach]

psh, like US was really gonna do anything even if the proposal passed.

well yea.. there was gonna be sanctions.

so...yes they would have done something

[bushbush]

well yea.. there was gonna be sanctions.

so...yes they would have done something

ban on travelling of Mugabe and his cronies (OH NO, their beautiful vacation to Hawaii is ruined).

frozen of their assets in foreign countries (Mugabe is kicking himself for saving his money in US last year i am sure).

[Carach]

ban on travelling of Mugabe and his cronies (OH NO, their beautiful vacation to Hawaii is ruined).

frozen of their assets in foreign countries (Mugabe is kicking himself for saving his money in US last year i am sure).

it matters more for europe because mugabe's family and cronies have been seen shopping there and doing other business dealings.

[Rapax]

I don't see why a communist nation and a corrupt "democracy" should even have veto powers.

Because they are two of the more powerful countries in the world. It's not a popularity contest when it comes to veto powers.

[MyNameIsGreat]

Because they are two of the more powerful countries in the world. It's not a popularity contest when it comes to veto powers.

So basically, for the UN, "might makes right".

Seems to contradict the entire point of the UN.

[John I Tzimisces]

So basically, for the UN, "might makes right".

Seems to contradict the entire point of the UN.

The largest, most populous, and most powerful/influential nations shouldn't have a leading role in the world's premier international organization? :hmmm:

[MyNameIsGreat]

The largest, most populous, and most powerful/influential nations shouldn't have a leading role in the world's premier international organization? :hmmm:

Clearly not, because when you give nations with starkly differing beliefs/agendas the right to veto eachother, it just leads to inaction. As we are seeing here.

How can France, UK, China, Russia, and America possibly agree on important issues? We are not the Allies anymore.

And not to mention, China and Russia aren't 100% members to begin with. The Republic of China and the USSR were members. I don't think Russia has a place on the SC at all, in its current state.

[Rapax]

Clearly not, because when you give nations with starkly differing beliefs/agendas the right to veto eachother, it just leads to inaction. As we are seeing here.

How can France, UK, China, Russia, and America possibly agree on important issues? We are not the Allies anymore.

And not to mention, China and Russia aren't 100% members to begin with. The Republic of China and the USSR were members. I don't think Russia has a place on the SC at all, in its current state.

The US uses this veto right for their own purposes just as well, it's not just "communists and corrupt democracries" as you say.
The idea is that one group of countries can't just dictate what's going to happen in the rest of the world. You can't expect a diverse mix of countries to be of the same opinion. China represents 1/6 of the worlds population, you can't tell them "sorry, your opinion on this sucks, you don't count".