Byzantine's swards.

[DashSia]

I ask this question for a friend.
He says that in BC romans have curved and one sided swards. Are those historically accurate? Because he thinks that romans had short and straight swards like the western soldiers in that period.

[Basileos]

in real,they had all kinds of swords,including the curved ones.it might be that he right, but the roman units of BC are based on the soldiers from the 10th-11th century,so it is correct.

[anaztazioch]

You didnt expect a 1100+AD faction to be antient Romans did you ?
Warfare changed and so did their equipment, influence from Mid-East, Steppe and North changed their outdated arms.

Still its a question from what age ERE roster is, i remember Mirage/Ahiga saying its from 600ad or atleast not from 1000-1100 (game start dates), to provide some more diverse roster form other factions.

Edit: Ok so i got the roster date remembering wrong :p

[Strelac]

ERE historically used both types of sword, as they draw influence from east and west. One thing I absolutely wanted to ensure is that BC ERE preserves eastern look and feel. In BC, there is both types of swords available, although commonly cav is equipped with broad swords, while inf carries Paramenion.

Regarding the look of ERE roster in BC, it originates from 12 -14 ct.

[AnthoniusII]

Medeival Romans used 4 types of swords...
Paramoirion (the one with the single cuting edge)was only one of them...
Curved swords started to be adopted after 1230 and later couse of the loss of most weapon factories after 1205!!!

[Kavhan Isbul]

Medeival Romans used 4 types of swords...
Paramoirion (the one with the single cuting edge)was only one of them...
Curved swords started to be adopted after 1230 and later couse of the loss of most weapon factories after 1205!!!

I think your estimate about the adoption of the sabre in the ERE might be too late. There is a miniature, depicting Nicephorus II Foca with a sabre (it is quite curved), I think it is kep in a library in Paris and dates from his time - late 10th century. Sabres are also depicted in Basil II's Menology. Given that almost all of the Empire's neighbors used them, it is not surprising the sabre became popular quickly.

[AnthoniusII]

I think your estimate about the adoption of the sabre in the ERE might be too late. There is a miniature, depicting Nicephorus II Foca with a sabre (it is quite curved), I think it is kep in a library in Paris and dates from his time - late 10th century. Sabres are also depicted in Basil II's Menology. Given that almost all of the Empire's neighbors used them, it is not surprising the sabre became popular quickly.

Curved swords were adopted since 9th century...but not in nambers that we can say that the army adopted them as standard weapon!
In 1203-4 we have descriptions of cavalry's spatha(long straight double edged sword and cavalry's paramoirion)!!!!
Infantry started to adopot masively curved swords from turkish weaponries at 13th century!
Still in 1430 when the byz emperor was on ture of help in europe he was shown an english sword and comented that this sword has no deferences of the typical byzantine ones...

[Kavhan Isbul]

Curved swords were adopted since 9th century...but not in nambers that we can say that the army adopted them as standard weapon!
In 1203-4 we have descriptions of cavalry's spatha(long straight double edged sword and cavalry's paramoirion)!!!!
Infantry started to adopot masively curved swords from turkish weaponries at 13th century!
Still in 1430 when the byz emperor was on ture of help in europe he was shown an english sword and comented that this sword has no deferences of the typical byzantine ones...

When it comes to swords, they were usually expensive and reserved for the elite, so I have always considered them anything but a standard weapon. The picture of an Emperor with a sabre is therefore, in my opinion, a clear evidence that the sabre was popular within the nobility as early as the 10th century. I am also attaching a fresco of Basil II, where he is depicted with a sabre with a small curve, typical or early sabres.
For me personally, contemporary visual art offers the best and most reliable evidence about arms and armor from a certain period. The artists only painted what they saw, and the depiction, be it of a saint or a historical figure, always has the best and the latest equipment that the artist is familiar with.
I am not trying to argue with you, I am just pointing out what I know, supported by evidence. I am sure that straight, double edged swords and paramerions co-existed with the sabres long after the introduction of the sabre - there is pictorial evidence for this as well. But the sabre became popular early, and what someone was armed with was a matter of personal preference, availability and financial means. And the Emperors, who were really not restricted in their options, are shown with a sabre, which leads me to believe that for most, the sabre would have been the weapon of choice if they could afford it.

[Fenix_120]

ERE historically used both types of sword, as they draw influence from east and west. One thing I absolutely wanted to ensure is that BC ERE preserves eastern look and feel. In BC, there is both types of swords available, although commonly cav is equipped with broad swords, while inf carries Paramenion.

Regarding the look of ERE roster in BC, it originates from 12 -14 ct.

I always found it odd that in BC the ERE calvary carry a straight blade and the Infantry carry a curved one... I thought this would be the other way around.

[frontier-auxilia]

^ Yeah espacially when curve sword is better for the downward swing but in an age where heavy cavalry was the norm, wouldn't it be better to have a board sword that packs enough weight to hack through enemy armor?

[Strelac]

I always found it odd that in BC the ERE calvary carry a straight blade and the Infantry carry a curved one... I thought this would be the other way around.

Other then just personal opinion, this does not have any reasonable clarification why one option is “odder” then other.
And we all know that personal opinion == do it your self.

[Taneda Santôka]

Other then just personal opinion, this does not have any reasonable clarification why one option is “odder” then other.
And we all know that personal opinion == do it your self.

:hmmm:
It's not really personal opinion, curved swords are reputed(don't ask me why) to be more effective than straight swords for horseback fighting, it's the reason they were adopted by all late european cavalries.

[Strelac]

It's not really personal opinion, curved swords are reputed(don't ask me why) to be more effective than straight swords for horseback fighting, it's the reason they were adopted by all late european cavalries.

Allow me to generalize myself,
I was not reflecting on later ages when I developed the ERE roster, but on time when the long straight sword were more or less standard for all eastern and western cav. Though, I did make the cav units armed with saber as well, as it would be ridicules to assume only one ‘point of view’ for faction which was so diversified in army technology.

Regarding the later ages and implementation of sabers, would you not agree that has more to do with reduction of armor average soldiers was wearing, where slashing property of lighter curved sword was more important then weight and resistance of broad swords?

Actually since ancient times the Greeks used straight swords for infantry and curved for calvary.

The over simplification and inflexible point of view seems to be growing standard on this forum. I don’t mind constructive criticism, but lets stay reasonable and less opinionated.

[Fenix_120]

Other then just personal opinion, this does not have any reasonable clarification why one option is “odder” then other.
And we all know that personal opinion == do it your self.

Actually since ancient times the Greeks used straight swords for infantry and curved for calvary.


Meant no offense

[AnthoniusII]

Actually since ancient times the Greeks used straight swords for infantry and curved for calvary.


Meant no offense

Copis was not an curved sword by a generic description!
Paramerion as weapon did the exact same job with copis with out beeing curved!
In a sword issue all is about weight ballance...
You can use it to cut like an"axe" or as a razor or at last to use it as a lance head!
Swords that can be used like an axe were prefered by cavalrymen becouse it maximized the horsemen hit!!!!

[DashSia]

I'm gonna tell him whay you said. Thank guys.

[Fenix_120]

I would personally consider most sabers as a type of broad sword considering that they are used almost exclusively to chop or cut.

[HunterKiller]

curved swords and sabers are the best for dueling, they are extremely fast

[anaztazioch]

curved swords and sabers are the best for dueling, they are extremely fast

Nope, they are not.
Ballanced and accurate is why they are good in dueling.
Still, two-handned sword is better, you just stand still and swin it arround, if a guy with curved sword wants to hit you, he must get in range of your swinging sword.

[nnnm]

Nope, they are not.
Ballanced and accurate is why they are good in dueling.
Still, two-handned sword is better, you just stand still and swin it arround, if a guy with curved sword wants to hit you, he must get in range of your swinging sword.

that's seems not true, because I always hear from guys who excpert about western armor that the majority of sword used by western knight were not able to cut through other knights armor. I can't believe that, because some Akinijs swords were able to cut through knights armor in 14-15th C and in 16th C most Akinijs were able to, but they always incest that is A Historical situation !!!!!