Was Jesus' Resurrection a Sequel?

[HorseArcher]

Most of the time, I hate sequels. In movies, they just want to milk the same cow one more time. Same in computer games.

When David Jeselsohn, a Swiss-Israeli collector, bought this ancient tablet from a Jordanian antiquities dealer, he was unaware of its significance


A 3-ft.-high tablet romantically dubbed "Gabriel's Revelation" could challenge the uniqueness of the idea of the Christian Resurrection. The tablet appears to date authentically to the years just before the birth of Jesus and yet — at least according to one Israeli scholar — it announces the raising of a messiah after three days in the grave. If true, this could mean that Jesus' followers had access to a well-established paradigm when they decreed that Christ himself rose on the third day — and it might even hint that they they could have applied it in their grief after their master was crucified. However, such a contentious reading of the 87-line tablet depends on creative interpretation of a smudged passage, making it the latest entry in the woulda/coulda/shoulda category of possible New Testament artifacts; they are useful to prove less-spectacular points and to stir discussion on the big ones, but probably not to settle them nor shake anyone's faith.


The ink-on-stone document, which is owned by a Swiss-Israeli antiques collector and reportedly came to light about a decade ago, has been dated by manuscript and chemical experts to a period just before Jesus' birth. Some scholars think it may originally have been part of the Dead Sea Scrolls, a trove of religious texts found in caves on the West Bank that were possibly associated with John the Baptist. The tablet is written in the form of an end-of-the-world prediction in the voice of the angel Gabriel; one line, for instance, predicts that "in three days you will know evil will be defeated by justice."

Such "apocalypses," often featuring a triumphant military figure called a messiah (literally, anointed one), were not uncommon in the religious and politically tumultuous Jewish world of 1st century B.C. Palestine. But what may make the Gabriel tablet unique is its 80th line, which begins with the words "In three days" and includes some form of the verb "to live." Israel Knohl, an expert in Talmudic and biblical language at Jerusalem's Hebrew University who was not involved in the first research on the artifact, claims that it refers to a historic 1st-century Jewish rebel named Simon who was killed by the Romans in 4 B.C., and should read "In three days, you shall live. I Gabriel command you." If so, Jesus-era Judaism had begun to explore the idea of a three-day resurrection before Jesus was born.

http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...0.html?cnn=yes



you gotta read the whole article though:
http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...0.html?cnn=yes

[McGness]

Everything under the sun is a sequel.

[Zuwxiv]

Every post is a repost of a repost.

Jesus Infinity.

Of course, this doesn't mean that the early Christians didn't legitimately believe that Jesus died and rose three days later. Conquering death is a constant human quest; I'd honestly be surprised if nobody had thought of a three-day resurrection before then. And raising the dead, and walking on water, etc.

Doesn't mean much, just more fuel for the Did-Jesus-Really-Resurrect debate. I swear, these arguments wouldn't end even if they had a time machine.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

Doesn't mean much, just more fuel for the Did-Jesus-Really-Resurrect debate.

Actually, it means quite a bit. Even if the rather dubious (re)-interpretation of the "three days" line means what this guy says it means (and that sounds like a great big "IF" to me), this text seems to indicate a "Suffering Servant"?Isaiah interpretation of the Messiah that pre-dates Jesus. That on its own is very significant and more indication that the Jesus Sect was very much a part of its Jewish environment and not unique at all.

[Zuwxiv]

But of course Christians will debate that, saying:

1) No, He was different!
2) No, this guy's interpretation is crazy at best.

... while we all presume that any religion still active today has had theological precursors... It's funny, really, because I put no limits on human creativity, imagination, or capacity. But I simultaneously believe that, even if some things have never been done before, everything has been thought before. It's okay, I'm a hypocrite anyway.


And at the end of the day, we won't get anywhere because hypothetical interpretations of dubious documents don't change people's religions.

Then again, neither do facts, so you'd figure everyone would have given up by now.

[Blau&Gruen]

... double post ...

[Empiricus]

Actually, it means quite a bit. Even if the rather dubious (re)-interpretation of the "three days" line means what this guy says it means (and that sounds like a great big "IF" to me), this text seems to indicate a "Suffering Servant"?Isaiah interpretation of the Messiah that pre-dates Jesus. That on its own is very significant and more indication that the Jesus Sect was very much a part of its Jewish environment and not unique at all.

Let me break this down for a second, since I'm not quite sure I entirely get what you're saying. You mean that the text seems to suggest that the belief in many of the things that are ascribed to Jesus actually ... pre-dates Jesus? Or are you saying that the text carries implications that Jesus and his followers were not the first or last to gain recognition claiming to be the messiah and claiming that he was resurrected, just that they were the most successful?

Religion is always a process of stealing concepts from those that come before. The tales of Genesis, such as the flood and creation, mirror the tales of Sumerian myth very closely, and even elements of Greek religion (or perhaps myth is a better term) are clearly influenced by Mesopotamian myth.

The further you go in history, the more you see it. Christianity is not entirely immune as a completely unique religion.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

Let me break this down for a second, since I'm not quite sure I entirely get what you're saying. You mean that the text seems to suggest that the belief in many of the things that are ascribed to Jesus actually ... pre-dates Jesus?

Yes. The idea that the "Suffering Servant" passages in Isaiah referred to the Messiah has generally been thought to have been an interpretation unique to the Jesus sect, as a reaction to his crucifixion and as a way of explaining how his unexpected death fits with their belief he was the Messiah. This text, if genuine, seems to indicate that another group of Jews had already used the Isaiah text in the same way.

Or are you saying that the text carries implications that Jesus and his followers were not the first or last to gain recognition claiming to be the messiah and claiming that he was resurrected, just that they were the most successful?

No, that's not what I'm saying. See above.

[Captain Arrrgh!]

The Airplane sequels were okay.

[basics]

HorseArcher,

So where then is this Messianic figure that has done as Gabriel commanded? Where is he in the history of Israel? As usual nowhere, neither in lore or folklore, but it doesn't stop those that want to debunk Jesus Christ of whom all Scripture speaks.

If you think that the writings about Christ Jesus is no more than an elaborate sequel then I ask you a sequel to what? Genesis is about Him just as all the rest is right up to the Revelation so where does a sequel come in? All salvation regardless of where it is written is about Justification by Faith whether Old or New.

It all concerns blood from beginning to end, faith being the consequence of believing that and only after the nature has been changed within the recipient whom God Himself has chosen. This the Jews couldn't quite grasp yet certain among them did and were justified through faith in the real blood to come.

You speak of things you know nothing about since the power of God plays no part in your life for had you known the experience of conversion such nonsense you could not write. Jesus Christ is the answer as it is written and there is nothing that can change that regardless of how hard you or they try.

[Empiricus]

Yes. The idea that the "Suffering Servant" passages in Isaiah referred to the Messiah has generally been thought to have been an interpretation unique to the Jesus sect, as a reaction to his crucifixion and as a way of explaining how his unexpected death fits with their belief he was the Messiah. This text, if genuine, seems to indicate that another group of Jews had already used the Isaiah text in the same way.

Right. So this text possibly shows that there is one more aspect of Christianity that is claimed to be unique but is rather an adapted version of ideas that pre-date Jesus? Interesting. Very interesting.

[gambit]

This is gonna get good

I can't wait till the next sequel (tablet) comes out!

[jankren]

There were probably two Jesuses, so what?

[bspiken]

Imagine if they were two Muhammads, or three even :O
The point as TG puts it, is that the tablet makes a (small) argument for marthyrs as a more common happening in 1st century jews.

[McGness]

There were way more than three mohammeds. In fact, according to Mohammed himself, he was the eighth mohammed. Jesus was the seventh.

[jankren]

There were way more than three mohammeds. In fact, according to Mohammed himself, he was the eighth mohammed. Jesus was the seventh.

Lol, you are making no sense. If there were 8 Muhammads but Jesus was the 7th then how could there be 8 Muhammads?!?

[McGness]

I am sorry. I am not an expert on Islam. I thought Mohammed said he was the eighth and final prophet, and that he called Jesus the 7th.

[jankren]

I am sorry. I am not an expert on Islam. I thought Mohammed said he was the eighth and final prophet, and that he called Jesus the 7th.

Yeah Muhammad said he was the final prophet but he never said he reincarnated 8 times or something.

[McGness]

Yeah Muhammad said he was the final prophet but he never said he reincarnated 8 times or something.

And this debate isn't about Jesus being reincarnated.
The other prophet is not Jesus in this story.

Who said anything about reincarnation, which has little to do with Christianity or Islam.

[roy34543]

I think we should all worship simon. After all he has a similar story to jesus doesnt he?
I bet someone here must be named simon. We can say hes a reincarnation of the messiah!